HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

NYR Players in the World Championships

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-11-2011, 01:42 PM
  #776
I Am Chariot
One shift at a time
 
I Am Chariot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 14,492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doakacola View Post
Jagr could care less about that. He'll be in the HOF and has a couple of SC rings to wear on his hands.

It was Jagr who made those honest comments about how the guy getting the most money is THE MAN in the clubhouse. Its old school but that's how he rolls. He was the man on the ice, and deservingly so, but he didn't want to take less money than Scott Gomez. In his world that was an insult.... He would have stayed if Sather could have paid him.

I don't see that as he was only in it for the money. The guy is going to go down as one of the greatest players ever EVER to lace them up. Few could DOMINATE a hockey game like Jagr... and we were lucky to see it in 2006.


It would be GREAT if Jagr came to his own realization that he no longer has to be THE MAN and would except a role on a team in the NHL. He could run our PP....

I Am Chariot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 01:47 PM
  #777
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Jagr did play KHL card, no question. I do not think Sather had to match. Sather, however, at the end of the day, rid of everyone who in any form tried the KHL racket against him. Someone may say - solid management. Some would say - a stupidity that resulted in current lack of talent.
To me it's more simplistic than that, it was 1 year vs. multi-year deal. Sather was adamant about a 1 year deal with bonuses, Jagr wanted a multi-year deal. If his Agents statements were honest in that Brooks article posted above, about Jagr wanting a mult-year deal and still wanting to play in the NHL for another 2-3 years, I would have imagined Jagr would have been open to signing a multi-year offer with another NHL team, however given the cap implications, I doubt he was tendered any.

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 01:52 PM
  #778
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Jagr did play KHL card, no question. I do not think Sather had to match. Sather, however, at the end of the day, rid of everyone who in any form tried the KHL racket against him. Someone may say - solid management. Some would say - a stupidity that resulted in current lack of talent.
Good observation.

On one hand old hockey has a point, on the other hand, do they have to go so far to the other end of the spectrum and take their ball and go home once the KHL is even mentioned?

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 01:53 PM
  #779
doakacola*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
There's no way you could possibly know whether or not Jagr cares about his NHL legacy. Sorry, dude.
Seriously? Well if you really cared about something that much why would you leave it?

doakacola* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 01:55 PM
  #780
doakacola*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
It was Jagr who made those honest comments about how the guy getting the most money is THE MAN in the clubhouse. Its old school but that's how he rolls. He was the man on the ice, and deservingly so, but he didn't want to take less money than Scott Gomez. In his world that was an insult.... He would have stayed if Sather could have paid him.

I don't see that as he was only in it for the money. The guy is going to go down as one of the greatest players ever EVER to lace them up. Few could DOMINATE a hockey game like Jagr... and we were lucky to see it in 2006.


It would be GREAT if Jagr came to his own realization that he no longer has to be THE MAN and would except a role on a team in the NHL. He could run our PP....
How does this matter in whether he "cares" about his NHL legacy? He left how much could he have cared?

doakacola* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 02:00 PM
  #781
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
To me it's more simplistic than that, it was 1 year vs. multi-year deal. Sather was adamant about a 1 year deal with bonuses, Jagr wanted a multi-year deal. If his Agents statements were honest in that Brooks article posted above, about Jagr wanting a mult-year deal and still wanting to play in the NHL for another 2-3 years, I would have imagined Jagr would have been open to signing a multi-year offer with another NHL team, however given the cap implications, I doubt he was tendered any.
It was insulting for one of the best players in history to be offered a performance defined agreement. Talent is never paid for what it does. Talent is paid for what it's able to do. KHL didn't ask any of BS Sather was. They just wanted a talent. They got him. AND I DID NOT SEE HIM HERE. Who did better? They did. People from Ohmsk. That makes Sather a complete moron in my eyes. But I used to live with it.
He didn't stopped with JJ. He followed with Jagr's replacement Zherdev that was no match, but better that nothing we got nowadays. Then Sather replaced the intelligent HC we had with mad slavedriver that should have scared away any talented players for years to come. Richards will never sign in here, don't hope for that. He is no Jagr, but he is smart too.


Last edited by 94now: 05-11-2011 at 02:10 PM.
94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 02:22 PM
  #782
haohmaru
#bdwyblueshirts
 
haohmaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fleming Island, Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 5,329
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doakacola View Post
Seriously? Well if you really cared about something that much why would you leave it?
Money - like we were talking about?

haohmaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 02:35 PM
  #783
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Money - like we were talking about?
Not exactly. Talent doesn't want money. Talent wants recognition. Since money is being widely used as the universal recognition measure, talent takes money.
KHL showed to Jagr that they recognize him as the best, while Sather considers the best only one individual - himself.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 02:48 PM
  #784
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
while Sather considers the best only one individual - himself.


He's the bad gatekeeper. When he has someone next to him telling him who to let in(scouts, mainly Clark), he does okay. When you leave him there all alone he lets in all sorts of riff raff

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 03:02 PM
  #785
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
It was insulting for one of the best players in history to be offered a performance defined agreement. Talent is never paid for what it does. Talent is paid for what it's able to do. KHL didn't ask any of BS Sather was. They just wanted a talent. They got him. AND I DID NOT SEE HIM HERE. Who did better? They did. People from Ohmsk. That makes Sather a complete moron in my eyes. .
Does the KHL have a hard salary cap to compete with when tendering multi-year offers to 35+ players?

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 03:14 PM
  #786
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Does the KHL have a hard salary cap to compete with when tendering multi-year offers to 35+ players?
No. They have no cap. However cap is, by definition, nothing else but a budget restriction. Try to tell someone you would like to hire, like painter or call girl that you have a budget limitations. See how many would understand and take less.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 03:15 PM
  #787
doakacola*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Money - like we were talking about?
He wouldn't be playing for minimum wage dude, he doesn't care about his NHL legacy nearly as much as you make it sound. He had a great career I'm sure he's satisfied with that.

doakacola* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 03:24 PM
  #788
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
No. They have no cap. However cap is, by definition, nothing else but a budget restriction. Try to tell someone you would like to hire, like painter or call girl that you have a budget limitations. See how many would understand and take less.
Point is, Sather had 21+ other player contracts and a hard salary cap restricting his ability to offer Jagr what he wanted... KHL team owner didn't... To expect him to compete with the 3 year 35 mil offer on the table is ludicrous.

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 03:27 PM
  #789
BlueshirtBlitz
Rich Nash
 
BlueshirtBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 18,585
vCash: 500
Missed the game.

Sounds like Jags single-handedly dominated us?

Oh well.

BlueshirtBlitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 03:36 PM
  #790
ReverbAndDelay
Old Time Hockey
 
ReverbAndDelay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Jersey
Country: Argentina
Posts: 218
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Missed the game.

Sounds like Jags single-handedly dominated us?

Oh well.
He had a hell of a game.

ReverbAndDelay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 03:36 PM
  #791
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,635
vCash: 500
That Czech team was pretty deep with talent, wasn't much of a game, Czechs could have won 7-0.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Point is, Sather had 21+ other player contracts and a hard salary cap restricting his ability to offer Jagr what he wanted... KHL team owner didn't... To expect him to compete with the 3 year 35 mil offer on the table is ludicrous.
You are making it seem like Sather was hit blindly with this. He knew there was a cap coming and then he had a few years to figure out how to keep him if in fact he wanted Jagr.

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 03:37 PM
  #792
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Point is, Sather had 21+ other player contracts and a hard salary cap restricting his ability to offer Jagr what he wanted... KHL team owner didn't... To expect him to compete with the 3 year 35 mil offer on the table is ludicrous.
I undersatnd what Sather was up to. I know. I also know the result of his innability to operate under cap. He really expected talented players to take less in order to help him out. Or else. Guess what? The ELSE has happened. Only people desperate to get a job would agree to pay cuts. As a result we have a team completed of players of that kind. To get results out of such group the different HC was needed. Torts gets max out of his plumbers, he deserves a credit for that. What became impossible wasto lure talent back. There is no room for talent there. For that Slats have to replace Torts with someone able to work with stars, just to start. It won't happen. He gave Torts an extention instead.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 03:53 PM
  #793
TreeSapLlama
Registered User
 
TreeSapLlama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Point is, Sather had 21+ other player contracts and a hard salary cap restricting his ability to offer Jagr what he wanted... KHL team owner didn't... To expect him to compete with the 3 year 35 mil offer on the table is ludicrous.
I can get the quote for you later, but that 3 year/ 35 Mil contract offer was just a false rumor. Jagr was paid 7 mil a year in Omsk. It is a moot point though, since an NHL team still can't compete with a 7 mil tax free salary.

TreeSapLlama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 05:31 PM
  #794
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post

You are making it seem like Sather was hit blindly with this. He knew there was a cap coming and then he had a few years to figure out how to keep him if in fact he wanted Jagr.
Where in any of my posts did I insinuate that Sather was "hit blindly" with any of this?

Sather had a 36 year old player whose contract expired, who wanted a multi-year deal. He wasn't going to commit to a multi-year contract on a player with no means for escaping a cap hit, certainly not a player who's point production dropped 25 points 2 years in a row. Jagr was 36, Sather was prepared to offer him a 1 year, bonus laden deal, what is the issue with that?

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 06:05 PM
  #795
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Where in any of my posts did I insinuate that Sather was "hit blindly" with any of this?

Sather had a 36 year old player whose contract expired, who wanted a multi-year deal. He wasn't going to commit to a multi-year contract on a player with no means for escaping a cap hit, certainly not a player who's point production dropped 25 points 2 years in a row. Jagr was 36, Sather was prepared to offer him a 1 year, bonus laden deal, what is the issue with that?


I can post those shaking heads too !

Like someone said, he didnt get that much money. But Sather knew well beforehand tht Jagr would want more than he's worth, how did Sather prepare for that? Like a GM who wanted to keep him, or a GM looking to cut ties? Seems pretty obvious to me.

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 06:13 PM
  #796
doakacola*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
That Czech team was pretty deep with talent, wasn't much of a game, Czechs could have won 7-0.

You are making it seem like Sather was hit blindly with this. He knew there was a cap coming and then he had a few years to figure out how to keep him if in fact he wanted Jagr.
I never once got that feeling, I watched the entire game. The US IMO had a better first period than Czech, but were down 1-0 and then JVR took a stupid penalty and
they ended up down 2-0 half way thru. It was 2-0 with about 9 minutes left, I don't think you're being accurate about the game. Never felt like it could have been a 7-0
game, ever.

doakacola* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 06:25 PM
  #797
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doakacola View Post
I never once got that feeling, I watched the entire game. The US IMO had a better first period than Czech, but were down 1-0 and then JVR took a stupid penalty and
they ended up down 2-0 half way thru. It was 2-0 with about 9 minutes left, I don't think you're being accurate about the game. Never felt like it could have been a 7-0
game, ever.
Both teams had good firsts it seemed, but the Czechs never buckled defensively, I thought if their offense had been unleashed earlier they would've put the game away before it really started. In the 3rd alone they should have had two more goals than they ended up with.

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 06:25 PM
  #798
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post


I can post those shaking heads too !

Like someone said, he didnt get that much money. But Sather knew well beforehand tht Jagr would want more than he's worth, how did Sather prepare for that? Like a GM who wanted to keep him, or a GM looking to cut ties? Seems pretty obvious to me.
What seems pretty obvious to me is you not understanding GM's unwillingness across the board to hand out contracts that fall under the 35+ rule. How did the Nylander and Rolston contracts works out for those GM's? If Jagr was so willing to keep playing in the NHL as his agent indicated, why didn't he receive multi-year offers from any other NHL teams then? If you read my first sentence again, you have your answer.

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2011, 02:52 AM
  #799
Ail
k.
 
Ail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mysidia
Country: United States
Posts: 15,933
vCash: 500
Missed the game!

Curse you Jagr, CURSE YOU!

__________________
Ail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2011, 07:33 AM
  #800
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,435
vCash: 500
Sather knew the teams after the lockout were basically completely centered around Jagr, but that Jagr was aging and that window was closing, if not already closed.

The Rangers chose to "rebuild" away from a Jagr centered team, which is a pretty big reason they didn't re-sign him IMO. Yes, a huge part of that was him being over 35 and the Rangers not wanting to commit to a longer contract (which was smart) but a bigger part was seeing that it was foolish to continue trying to build around a guy on the downswing of his career at an "old" age for hockey, even if that guy was a superstar at one point.

The direction the Rangers chose to go with their FA signings ended up being pretty crappy but I don't fault the logic behind not re-signing Jagr. That window was closing fast, the backbone of those teams were players who were aging fast, standing pat wasn't a great idea.

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:37 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.