HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The GM debate

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-10-2011, 02:37 PM
  #251
Atlas
Registered User
 
Atlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 3,211
vCash: 500
As for the PP, we just need to get Lecavalier a few more looks--Victor Hedman is blossoming, gotta keep him going.

Go Bolts!

Atlas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 04:31 PM
  #252
Robert Theodorson
Registered User
 
Robert Theodorson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Washington DC
Country: United States
Posts: 7,347
vCash: 500
It's now clear that Leonsis answers to McPhee, not the other way around.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=6521950

I understand this is from ESPN and it is of course not our favorite source of hockey information but it does state the facts.

McPhee was hired in 1997 the first year the Verizon Center was opened, and earned a trip with to the Stanley Cup finals where the Capitals were swept in his rookie season as Caps GM. Since then McPhee has been through a firesale and rebuild, since the Lockout the Capitals have made the postseason 4 times and have never advanced past the second round, most recently being swept by division rival and lower seed Tampa Bay.

Since 1997 McPhee has hired Ron Wilson, Bruce Cassidy, Glen Hanlon, and Bruce Boudreau. None of the coaches had won a Stanley Cup nor have they won a Stanley Cup since leaving the Capitals. Two out of the four coaches are currently not in the NHL.

It's become increasingly clear over the years that Leonsis takes his orders from McPhee, not the other way around. Despite ruining the team after the Stanley Cup and failing to make a sustained postseason run since the lockout McPhee's job has never been in question.

Leonsis is all too comfortable with the losing culture that has surrounded the Washington Capitals since their inception in the seventies. As long as the seats are being filled and the money is coming in things are going exactly as they should be, everything is going according to plan. Winning is not and has not ever been in this franchise's vocabulary and there is no action being taken to change this. Leonsis is afraid to take action when action is necessary, the sign of a weak and inefficient leader that would be terminated or posted in almost any other profession. Nobody wants to question the man who signs the checks, and our GM, the one man who has some capacity to, as it seems owns the man.

Robert Theodorson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 04:34 PM
  #253
strungout
Professional Killer
 
strungout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 29,038
vCash: 500
Duh. Winning!

strungout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 04:35 PM
  #254
BrooklynCapsFan
Waiting on the Isles
 
BrooklynCapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 14,498
vCash: 500
Loud Noises!

BrooklynCapsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 04:38 PM
  #255
dashtary*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,271
vCash: 500
I'm thinking that with Leonsis' comments today he is making GMGM liable for keeping Boudreau. So that if they don't win next year, they're both tied up (as said on NHL Live) and both held responsible and fired at the same time. So he's really leaving GMGM responsible for what happens with the coach. If it goes wrong again then Leonsis can fire both.

dashtary* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 05:10 PM
  #256
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 40,204
vCash: 500
yada yada yada.

dick patrick. google him.

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 05:13 PM
  #257
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 18,769
vCash: 500
This is fast approaching idiocy. Of course GMGM answers to Leonsis. Leonsis is doing what any owner should: leave the hockey decisions to the hokey people. That's what they were hired for.

Pop quiz: what were the last two hockey moves Leonsis forced McPhee to make?

And for extra credit: how'd that turn out?

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 05:29 PM
  #258
EroCaps
Registered User
 
EroCaps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 14,536
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Name me a better replacement.


Give me market advice. My broker needs to go.

EroCaps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 05:38 PM
  #259
Robert Theodorson
Registered User
 
Robert Theodorson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Washington DC
Country: United States
Posts: 7,347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
This is fast approaching idiocy. Of course GMGM answers to Leonsis. Leonsis is doing what any owner should: leave the hockey decisions to the hokey people. That's what they were hired for.
........

Usually you have some pretty decent responses and things to add.

Let's play this out, I'm the president and you're my VP. I own everything like a Bill Gates but I leave all the decision and policy making to you, you run my business, I just write the checks and live on an island somewhere.

I hired you 14 years ago to become the #1 business in the area of whatever it is we do. Let's say we are a clothing company, I want to be the most profitable out of all the other companies, but I've left it to you, because like I said before I just watch from a distance and see my bank account grow.

This company has never been #1 in our near 40 years of being an established business. Some of our direct neighbor competitors have been #1 in past years. Two of our biggest rivals have been #1 in 2004 and 2006.

Now my last VP left us in a good position, and you are awesome, you took my company to #2 most profitable clothing company in the world your very first year here. I love you, you are my main man. After the #2 overall finish in your first year things steadily decline, we are losing money but not too much. A few years pass and we go from #6-7 to the 30th best clothing company in the world. We suck, we can't do anything right.

Along the way things change and we rebound, we to to #15, we are in the middle of the pack. I tell you I want my original plan to be revived, we must become the best! You steadily take us from the middle of the pack to top 10, we float around 9-10 and one year we are almost in the top 5, not quite but almost there. After that the company falls back to the low teens and our projections show we are going to hang around that area for some time.


1) ***Did you do what I asked you?***

2) Did you come into a good position when I hired you or did you come into a bad situation and turn it around completely by yourself.

3) Given your history of management, where can I expect my company to rank next year and 2-3 after that?

4) Are our direct competitors in a better position than us now and in the future? Have our direct competitors been in a better position in the recent past?



Some of you are just so dense, I hope this analogy opens some eyes.

Robert Theodorson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 05:41 PM
  #260
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 40,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Pop quiz: what were the last two hockey moves Leonsis forced McPhee to make?

And for extra credit: how'd that turn out?
1. Jagr
2. Cassidy

what do I win?

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 05:46 PM
  #261
Robert Theodorson
Registered User
 
Robert Theodorson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Washington DC
Country: United States
Posts: 7,347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
1. Jagr
2. Cassidy

what do I win?
I'm hitching my wagon to yours until these people wake up and smell the coffee, some of these jokers sound like Capitals employees and Yes Men. It's really quite pathetic to read sometimes.

Robert Theodorson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 06:36 PM
  #262
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 18,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
1. Jagr
2. Cassidy

what do I win?

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 06:53 PM
  #263
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 40,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedeSpeedBackstrom View Post
I'm hitching my wagon to yours until these people wake up and smell the coffee, some of these jokers sound like Capitals employees and Yes Men. It's really quite pathetic to read sometimes.
i dont understand.

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 07:24 PM
  #264
HSHS
Losing is a disease
 
HSHS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Redondo Beach, Ca
Country: United States
Posts: 17,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i dont understand.
Now you know how we feel!

HSHS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 07:36 PM
  #265
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 40,204
vCash: 500
not really. i am not much of a feel your pain kind of guy.

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 08:44 PM
  #266
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,668
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
yada yada yada.

dick patrick. google him.
I had a great 20 min discussion last summer with Dick Patrick. That guy really knows his hockey. He's like your grandpa with a sharp hockey mind. I'll never forget how he actually skoffed at Pronger in Philly. He basically laughed at the notion that Pronger was so excellent for Philly on the way to the Finals, as in defending why the Caps didn't go after him. I don't know that I agree with him on that point, but the guy is the hockey mind in the ownership group without a doubt.

I'm not sure where you're headed with this comment, but I do think Patrick has heavy input in hockey decisions. Unfortunately the majority owner is the only guy in the hot seat.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 08:48 PM
  #267
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,668
vCash: 500
Hey doesn't Leonsis get credit for the best hockey move he's "forced" Mcphee to do since he's been here?

He made McPhee trade away or let walk a team full of fan favorites and long time Capitals, to the pain of us all, but to the successful start of the rebuild.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-10-2011, 08:53 PM
  #268
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 40,204
vCash: 500
dick patrick is COO. he is mcphee's boss. as much as you hear from leonsis you dont hear from patrick. yet patrick is guy that runs the team. mcphee doesnt fire boudreau without patrick signing off on it. recall when hanlon was fired, mcphee said he called patrick. patrick then conferenced leonsis in.

i obviously dont know inside operational details, but my guess is that mcphee doesnt make a major public comment on anything unless patrick has ok'd the message.

so many here think they know so much about what happens inside that building yet a primary cog in the wheel has no public image whatsoever and we have zero idea of where his weight swings on decisions. its not mcphee that has leonsis ear. its patrick and patrick is a media black hole

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 10:51 AM
  #269
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedeSpeedBackstrom View Post
...Despite ruining the team after the Stanley Cup...
I'd argue father time had a whole lot more to do with the Caps not being able to build on the cup finals run than McPhee. Way too many of that team were on their last legs for that run to have been any more than a one time thing.

Say what you want about McPhee but 'ruining' the cup finals team is not one of them...

Millhaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 11:37 AM
  #270
stanleycaps98
I cheer for laundry
 
stanleycaps98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chocolate City
Posts: 3,448
vCash: 500
I would add that GMGM wanted to clean house there, but the SCF made him postpone "to give it another try". Then, UT forces the Jagr deal, which failed, then Cassidy, then he finally let's GMGM do what he was hired to do. Be the undertaker!

stanleycaps98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 03:34 PM
  #271
dpj0122
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 363
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
This is fast approaching idiocy. Of course GMGM answers to Leonsis. Leonsis is doing what any owner should: leave the hockey decisions to the hokey people. That's what they were hired for.

Pop quiz: what were the last two hockey moves Leonsis forced McPhee to make?

And for extra credit: how'd that turn out?

Well, actually, Leonsis is abdicating his responsibility to take a long hard look at the GM who has been here so long he's become dead wood. You know, the guy who brought the current coach here (his fourth strike in hiring coaches) as well as all the players who flame out in the playoffs every year. But somehow, the coach and the players are to blame, yet the GM rises above it all. Logic ain't your strong suit................


Last edited by dpj0122: 05-11-2011 at 03:49 PM.
dpj0122 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 03:44 PM
  #272
dpj0122
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 363
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedeSpeedBackstrom View Post
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=6521950

I understand this is from ESPN and it is of course not our favorite source of hockey information but it does state the facts.

McPhee was hired in 1997 the first year the Verizon Center was opened, and earned a trip with to the Stanley Cup finals where the Capitals were swept in his rookie season as Caps GM. Since then McPhee has been through a firesale and rebuild, since the Lockout the Capitals have made the postseason 4 times and have never advanced past the second round, most recently being swept by division rival and lower seed Tampa Bay.

Since 1997 McPhee has hired Ron Wilson, Bruce Cassidy, Glen Hanlon, and Bruce Boudreau. None of the coaches had won a Stanley Cup nor have they won a Stanley Cup since leaving the Capitals. Two out of the four coaches are currently not in the NHL.

It's become increasingly clear over the years that Leonsis takes his orders from McPhee, not the other way around. Despite ruining the team after the Stanley Cup and failing to make a sustained postseason run since the lockout McPhee's job has never been in question.

Leonsis is all too comfortable with the losing culture that has surrounded the Washington Capitals since their inception in the seventies. As long as the seats are being filled and the money is coming in things are going exactly as they should be, everything is going according to plan. Winning is not and has not ever been in this franchise's vocabulary and there is no action being taken to change this. Leonsis is afraid to take action when action is necessary, the sign of a weak and inefficient leader that would be terminated or posted in almost any other profession. Nobody wants to question the man who signs the checks, and our GM, the one man who has some capacity to, as it seems owns the man.
My theory is that Leonsis gave McPhee a mulligan for the Jagr years since Leonsis forced him to take Jagr, probably against his advice. (One could certainly make the argument, however, that McPhee did a poor job of building around Jagr during those years, even if he didn't want Jagr to begin with, so that the mulligan was misguided). Even if you take the mulligan view, however, McPhee's seeming lack of accountability is puzzling. It is one thing for an owner to hire a good hockey guy and let him do his job. It is completely something else to abdicate your responsiblity as owner to hold your employees accountable and act in the best interest of the team.............

dpj0122 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 03:56 PM
  #273
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpj0122 View Post
Well, actually, Leonsis is abdicating his responsibility to take a long hard look at the GM who has been here so long he's become dead wood. You know, the guy who brought the current coach here (his fourth strike in hiring coaches) as well as all the players who flame out in the playoffs every year. But somehow, the coach and the players are to blame, yet the GM rises above it all. Logic ain't your strong suit................
Just so I understand the strike zone here, any time a coach is hired and he does not end up winning a championship before moving on that is a strike?

Millhaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 04:07 PM
  #274
dpj0122
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 363
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Just so I understand the strike zone here, any time a coach is hired and he does not end up winning a championship before moving on that is a strike?

You can define success any way you want. My definition is championships, but if you want a more lenient definition, be my guest. If you want to make a case that Wilson, Cassidy, Hanlon and Boudreau have had successful tenures as Caps coach, go for it. I think you face an uphill battle.

dpj0122 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-11-2011, 04:24 PM
  #275
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 40,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpj0122 View Post
Even if you take the mulligan view, however, McPhee's seeming lack of accountability is puzzling. It is one thing for an owner to hire a good hockey guy and let him do his job...
A. You have no idea how long and how hard a look Leonsis and Patrick have taken at McPhee's performance. Unless the only sign of that hard look is firing him.

B. You have no idea what level of accountability McPhee has been held to unless accountability means fired.

C. The coaches. Wilson. Took them to the finals. Had a lenthy run as coach in San Jose. Having a lenthy run in Toronto. Was head coach of team USA at the past Olympics and gave a stacked team Canada fits. Seems to me Wilson is a pretty good hockey coach. Cassidy was hired by Leonsis. Hanlon: Do you know what the budget was for that hire and how many experienced coaches were willing to coach a certain last place team for a small paycheck?

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:12 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.