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Old
05-11-2011, 03:30 PM
  #101
triggrman
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Suter is the best playmaking defenseman the Predators have ever dressed, period.

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05-11-2011, 03:31 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
If you go back to the offseason before Hamhuis was UFA (like Suter is now), several people foresaw the Hamhuis "walk" and wanting to capitalize on the assets he could get in return. I think Poile had hopes of re-signing him.

I think a Hamhuis trade would have been yeilidng significant assets in the offseason, especially if packaged Dan Ellis, 1st rd pick, etc. I think a team like Philly would have paid a lot to get at least a year of Hamhuis, Ellis (when his value was decent), and change for *something signficant*.

Don't forget that in keeping Hamhuis that year, we also had to let Greg Zanon walk. I feel like that has been one of the worst "easy decisions" that last couple of years. Zanon is one of the best bang-for-the-buck defenseman out there, and would have done wonders in stabilizing our defensive core past Suter and Weber.

The Suter situation is not as easy to predict has Hamhuis. Nashville wants him, but at what cost? If he wants $6.5m a year, I don't think he's worth it. He's a very solid player, but his lack of shot and offense puts him in a class below most other $6-7m dmen. If you look at Lidstorm, he's solid as they come defensively, but also runs a PP like a machine and scores 15 goals a year. Or Pronger, who also has the dominant physicality as well. I feel like Suter should be about $5.5m. I also think he doesn't belong on a good 1st PP, which would take down his point totals considerably.

If we can get a left-handed bomb opposite Weber, I think our PP would improve-- not the best in the league, but maybe average or slightly above average. Weber is the only real weapon we have on the PP and it's too easy for people to plan against that.
Agreed (though not necessarily on your assessment of Suter), this level of foresight you noted with Hamhuis is imperative with Suter. Poile has to play this situation correctly. We can't afford to be in a position like Atlanta was with Kovalchuk, getting pennies on the dollar for the asset because we misplayed our hand.

If Poile isn't confident that Suter will resign at the acceptable price, then we have to trade him this offseason. We aren't the team that can afford to pay market price for others' highest value assets. So we definitely cannot afford to receive below market for our highest value assets.

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05-11-2011, 03:35 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Suter is the best playmaking defenseman the Predators have ever dressed, period.
I think he's the best defenseman from a breakout, first pass standpoint. However, in terms of pure "playmaking," ie, vision and hockey sense, I think he's pretty average, actually. You don't see him making the sort of plays that guys like Zidlicky, Timonen, or even Grebeshkov were capable of making. You don't see the sort of needle threading that you get with a truly elite playmaking d-man...Dan Boyle, Lubo Visnovsky, etc.

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05-11-2011, 03:42 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I think he's the best defenseman from a breakout, first pass standpoint. However, in terms of pure "playmaking," ie, vision and hockey sense, I think he's pretty average, actually. You don't see him making the sort of plays that guys like Zidlicky, Timonen, or even Grebeshkov were capable of making. You don't see the sort of needle threading that you get with a truly elite playmaking d-man...Dan Boyle, Lubo Visnovsky, etc.
Agreed. He's has great 'neutral zone' puck movement/vision, but once he's "setup" in the offensive zone, he has some playmaking but nothing close to elite, IMO. Similar to Legwand in that fashion.

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05-11-2011, 03:43 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
Agreed (though not necessarily on your assessment of Suter), this level of foresight you noted with Hamhuis is imperative with Suter. Poile has to play this situation correctly. We can't afford to be in a position like Atlanta was with Kovalchuk, getting pennies on the dollar for the asset because we misplayed our hand.

If Poile isn't confident that Suter will resign at the acceptable price, then we have to trade him this offseason. We aren't the team that can afford to pay market price for others' highest value assets. So we definitely cannot afford to receive below market for our highest value assets.
That's exactly the point I was trying to make...

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05-11-2011, 03:57 PM
  #106
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More crazy crappy Concussion talk, this time Bouillon

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Old
05-11-2011, 04:29 PM
  #107
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That's exactly the point I was trying to make...
And the point is spot on. Suter can't start this season without an extension...

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05-11-2011, 04:33 PM
  #108
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I love some of you analyzing Suter's game. He's probably our best overall player on the roster. He's as positionally sound as any other player in the league. While he's not physically imposing like Weber he can strip the puck away from a guy with his positioning and hockey smarts. He's the one guy on the back end that rarely makes a mistake with the puck. He can carry it end to end without getting picked. He doesn't have a booming shot but he gets it through and on net when he does shoot. Remember he made Rafalski look like a monster goal scorer in the Olympics last year so to say he's not a great playmaker on the PP is incorrect. The problem on the PP is not Weber or Suter, it's the forwards up front. We have too many playmakers and not enough snipers. We also tried using two guys who can screen the goalie on the same unit in Fisher and Hornqvist. Big mistake there. Neither are good enough to play the outside and be playmakers. This was a coaching and scheme issue, not a defenseman issue.

And Suter is worth every dime that Weber will receive this offseason. I've said this over and over but if I had to pick between the two I'd take Suter every day of the week over Weber. When Suter went out we saw the flaws in Weber's game and no one was on the roster to fill the slack. When Weber went down in Atlanta for a few periods with his facial issue, Suter played big minutes and we didn't look the worse for the wear. You can pair anyone with Suter and they'll get better. I'm not so sure you can say the same for Weber. While I love Weber's leadership, big shot and physical game, I love the attention to detail that Suter has in his game. While Weber's shot ripping thru the net makes highlights, I want a guy that is a highlight reel every night on the ice even if it's not the spectacular play but the right play time and time again. And remember, who's usually assigned the other teams top forward night in and night, Suter. Suter shut down Nash the last time we played them. The guy was not a factor in the game. You'd think Weber would be the guy because of the size comparison but if you can't skate with a guy, your size advantage becomes moot.

Don't get me wrong, I love Weber and his game but I really think people undervalue Suter way too much here and around the league.

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Old
05-11-2011, 04:57 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I love some of you analyzing Suter's game. He's probably our best overall player on the roster. He's as positionally sound as any other player in the league. While he's not physically imposing like Weber he can strip the puck away from a guy with his positioning and hockey smarts. He's the one guy on the back end that rarely makes a mistake with the puck. He can carry it end to end without getting picked. He doesn't have a booming shot but he gets it through and on net when he does shoot. Remember he made Rafalski look like a monster goal scorer in the Olympics last year so to say he's not a great playmaker on the PP is incorrect. The problem on the PP is not Weber or Suter, it's the forwards up front. We have too many playmakers and not enough snipers. We also tried using two guys who can screen the goalie on the same unit in Fisher and Hornqvist. Big mistake there. Neither are good enough to play the outside and be playmakers. This was a coaching and scheme issue, not a defenseman issue.

And Suter is worth every dime that Weber will receive this offseason. I've said this over and over but if I had to pick between the two I'd take Suter every day of the week over Weber. When Suter went out we saw the flaws in Weber's game and no one was on the roster to fill the slack. When Weber went down in Atlanta for a few periods with his facial issue, Suter played big minutes and we didn't look the worse for the wear. You can pair anyone with Suter and they'll get better. I'm not so sure you can say the same for Weber. While I love Weber's leadership, big shot and physical game, I love the attention to detail that Suter has in his game. While Weber's shot ripping thru the net makes highlights, I want a guy that is a highlight reel every night on the ice even if it's not the spectacular play but the right play time and time again. And remember, who's usually assigned the other teams top forward night in and night, Suter. Suter shut down Nash the last time we played them. The guy was not a factor in the game. You'd think Weber would be the guy because of the size comparison but if you can't skate with a guy, your size advantage becomes moot.

Don't get me wrong, I love Weber and his game but I really think people undervalue Suter way too much here and around the league.


Took a break from hockey for a few days, had to let everything sink in. Weber casts a pretty big shadow, but Suter is right there in the top 5 defenseman in the league imo. He has that ability to snuff out the opposition with ease, and without taking stupid holding/hooking penalties. His offensive game is coming around aswell, decent stick handling and has more than a sufficient shot. We need to lock these two up right away. I firmly believe they're the best defensive tandem in the league.

On a separate note, I love Franson, but with guys coming through the pipeline like Josi, Ellis, the maturation of Blum, etc. and after the extra exposure he got during the playoffs, I think now is the time to see what we can acquire in terms of a big scoring forward. Obviously it will take more than Franson, but it's a good starting point.

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Old
05-11-2011, 05:05 PM
  #110
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If it came down to Weber or Suter, I would keep Suter. I know Weber is more flashy, but Suter just very rarely makes mistakes. Just my opinion.

Obviously I want to keep both....

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05-11-2011, 05:16 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
If it came down to Weber or Suter, I would keep Suter. I know Weber is more flashy, but Suter just very rarely makes mistakes. Just my opinion.

Obviously I want to keep both....
I agree, plus if we HAD to trade one, Weber would get the bigger return.

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05-11-2011, 05:35 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
And the point is spot on. Suter can't start this season without an extension...
i agree.... sign weber..

then get suter and pekka done... this summer..

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Old
05-11-2011, 08:29 PM
  #113
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From the wrap it's a matter of when, not if Weber is re-signed. That's good to hear.

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05-11-2011, 08:37 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
If you go back to the offseason before Hamhuis was UFA (like Suter is now), several people foresaw the Hamhuis "walk" and wanting to capitalize on the assets he could get in return......
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=658439

If Lombardi is truly out for another year or unable to train this summer, you just have to shake your head. How many poor contracts can we hand out to forwards. It never ends. I'm not going to blame Poile too heavily for this contract, but I do think it is inexcusable for a team in our situation to ever sign a player without any form of insurance. It is, to be blunt, ridiculous.

As for Suter, he is a top 5 defenseman in this league. He can skate the puck through a mob of players. He is consistently the best positional player on the ice. He eats tons of minutes and plays a nasty game along the boards. He absolutely has to be resigned or traded for an elite talent such as Zach Parise. There can be no middle grounds or this team takes a gigantic step backwards.

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Old
05-11-2011, 08:42 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=658439

If Lombardi is truly out for another year or unable to train this summer, you just have to shake your head. How many poor contracts can we hand out to forwards. It never ends. I'm not going to blame Poile too heavily for this contract, but I do think it is inexcusable for a team in our situation to ever sign a player without any form of insurance. It is, to be blunt, ridiculous.

As for Suter, he is a top 5 defenseman in this league. He can skate the puck through a mob of players. He is consistently the best positional player on the ice. He eats tons of minutes and plays a nasty game along the boards. He absolutely has to be resigned or traded for an elite talent such as Zach Parise. There can be no middle grounds or this team takes a gigantic step backwards.
welcome to the silent minority

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Old
05-11-2011, 08:53 PM
  #116
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I think people are making too big a deal out of Lombardi's uninsured contract. How exactly has that hurt us? We are spending right up to the mid-point anyway. And Lombardi's contract isn't going to be the difference between full and partial revenue sharing. Maybe it effects us in the long term, but it didn't matter for this season.

Plus, don't you only get a percentage back from insurance? I don't think it's the full amount... not sure though.

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05-11-2011, 09:20 PM
  #117
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i thought we were not able to insure his. don't know where i read it/why i think it.

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05-11-2011, 09:25 PM
  #118
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i thought we were not able to insure his. don't know where i read it/why i think it.
We couldn't insure him because of his past concussion history.

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05-11-2011, 10:10 PM
  #119
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We couldn't insure him because of his past concussion history.
Did we at least ask "pretty please."

I thought he was too goof to be true when we got him. I was surprised he lasted as long as he did into FA. I bet other teams had interest, but when they went and talked to the insurance agencies and got a "no go", backed off. We were the only suckers to take the bait.

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05-11-2011, 10:18 PM
  #120
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Did we at least ask "pretty please."

I thought he was too goof to be true when we got him. I was surprised he lasted as long as he did into FA. I bet other teams had interest, but when they went and talked to the insurance agencies and got a "no go", backed off. We were the only suckers to take the bait.
Such is the life of living in a non-traditional, southern hockey market. We will always be picking out of the bargain bin come July 1st because we generally aren't a desirable place free agents want to come to. Players love it once they get here, but it takes someone with an open mind to choose Nashville over places like NYC, SoCal, Canada, etc.

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05-11-2011, 10:30 PM
  #121
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I think people are making too big a deal out of Lombardi's uninsured contract. How exactly has that hurt us?
Wait, you mean aside from the fact that we paid a player $3 million to contribute for a whopping 2 games of the season? I'm not sure how it doesn't hurt us, to be honest... But if that contract's insured then that's not $3 million blown into the wind. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it still counts towards the cap hit, meaning we don't risk losing any revenue sharing for falling too low, but instead it saves us tangible money which we can then spend on a forward who CAN help the team. Oh well, it happens.

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05-11-2011, 10:39 PM
  #122
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Wait, you mean aside from the fact that we paid a player $3 million to contribute for a whopping 2 games of the season? I'm not sure how it doesn't hurt us, to be honest... But if that contract's insured then that's not $3 million blown into the wind. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it still counts towards the cap hit, meaning we don't risk losing any revenue sharing for falling too low, but instead it saves us tangible money which we can then spend on a forward who CAN help the team. Oh well, it happens.
Well, yea, losing millions of course hurts in one way or another. I'm not denying that. We could store the insurance money in a money market account, gain some interest, then spend a little more later (or whatever).

But I am failing to see how we missed out on a forward since we are already spending up to the mid-point. Getting insurance money back isn't going to change anything in that sense. If we did in fact get insurance money back, we can't spend it anyway because we are up against our self-imposed cap. Lombardi salary counts whether he is insured or uninsured.

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05-11-2011, 11:08 PM
  #123
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If it came down to Weber or Suter, I would keep Suter. I know Weber is more flashy, but Suter just very rarely makes mistakes. Just my opinion.

Obviously I want to keep both....
I disagree Weber has stepped to the elite of elite's. Coming into this series I was worried about Burrows more so than even Kelser because Burrrow always seems to be the one that come up with that goal against us. Weber hit on Burrow behind the net and Burrows was a non factor. The type of defenseman like Weber don't grow on trees. They are a rare commodity with itimidation factor now becoming a big part of his game nobody wants to mess with. Suter is a different type of defensive more in Lindstrom type mode but Suter doesn't come close for offense that Lindstrom has but their styles are very similar. This discussion a mute point because both are going to be signed. We have enough resources to get an top 6 forward. The free agent market isnt' loaded but trade wise we can do it

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05-12-2011, 01:08 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Well, yea, losing millions of course hurts in one way or another. I'm not denying that. We could store the insurance money in a money market account, gain some interest, then spend a little more later (or whatever).

But I am failing to see how we missed out on a forward since we are already spending up to the mid-point. Getting insurance money back isn't going to change anything in that sense. If we did in fact get insurance money back, we can't spend it anyway because we are up against our self-imposed cap. Lombardi salary counts whether he is insured or uninsured.
But we would get money back, MONEY

Aren't you happy when you get money back

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05-12-2011, 01:22 AM
  #125
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Were gonna announce Weber and Suter extensions on the same day.

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