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Is McLellan doing a good job?

View Poll Results: Is Todd McLellan doing a good job as a coach?
Yes, he's great. 33 47.14%
No, he is being out-coached. 14 20.00%
He's average 23 32.86%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-11-2011, 07:20 PM
  #26
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Doesn't pull the teams strings at all which works when the team plays to its ability, but which they often do not.

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05-11-2011, 07:23 PM
  #27
TrappedInFullerton
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Give us Detroit's defense, please...

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05-11-2011, 07:38 PM
  #28
WTFetus
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SJeasy, do you have stats for coaches who actively talk to the refs? Like is there a positive correlation between talking to them and getting more calls your way?
Todd McLellan doesn't seem to do it nearly as much as other coaches in the league (though I don't think Babcock does it that much either).

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05-11-2011, 07:40 PM
  #29
dwood16
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
That is the issue of playing the 4th line. That is what they are there for. AV has been doing that to a tee with the Nucks. It is also because he uses the 3rd line for the same role. The Sharks don't have those type of players on their 3rd line with only Mitchell being a little along those lines.
I disagree and think that's a very poor excuse. Thornton, Seto, Heater, Demers, Clowe are all guys who can throw their weight around......and other teams don't seem to have issues with getting their scorers and finesse guys to subscribe to the physical game in the post-season.

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05-11-2011, 08:04 PM
  #30
SJeasy
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Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
I disagree and think that's a very poor excuse. Thornton, Seto, Heater, Demers, Clowe are all guys who can throw their weight around......and other teams don't seem to have issues with getting their scorers and finesse guys to subscribe to the physical game in the post-season.
You are into fantasyland. Top players don't for the most part and it is a losing strategy. Too many injuries. Note the injury frequency on Nolan and subsequent subpar play. Teams can't afford that if they want to go the distance. You use players whose skills are more replaceable to do that duty.

WT,
It isn't a lot, but being kind to the refs does get a few breaks. RW was horrid and the stats for the Sharks did turn around with his departure. McLellan and Babcock are pretty good about not blowing off the refs. A very occasional explosion is OK. Repeatedly, not so good. Take a look at the Ducks; their issues are not all strictly in play. Torts doesn't do well either. I have seen Martin and B. Sutter directly shafted.

Player/ref interactions are more fun. Crosby, Getzlaf and JT need to take a page from Pronger who has softened in his latter years. All 4 of the above have paid with lack of calls or extra time for overuse of their mouths.


Last edited by SJeasy: 05-11-2011 at 08:12 PM.
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05-11-2011, 08:07 PM
  #31
MadmanSJ
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Can I vote a 4th option?

I can't stand listening to him because I hate the way his lower jaw moves when he talks.

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05-11-2011, 08:10 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by CrazedZooChimp View Post
He's being out-coached, but a lot of people get out-coached by Babcock. I am more annoyed that for another playoff season we've watched a highly ranked powerplay absolutely disappear. I feel like this has happened every year post-lockout, and I keep hoping someday a coach will fix it. Maybe it's the players fault...

Also, Yawney sucks.
Bingo.

Playing devil's advocate, I'm not too sure if he's being outcoached (at least, if he is, it's by a very negligible margin).

If our players would execute on the powerplay, we would be waiting to play Vancouver already. I guess you could argue that our PP strategy was working for games 1-3, then Babcoock made an adjustment, and McLellan hasn't readjusted. But really, I say it's our players not executing, and Detroit's players doing just that.

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05-11-2011, 08:24 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
BTW, can anyone explain to me why we are playing the oldest defence core ever and refuse to hit them? I mean seriously, do you think Detroit would have tied the series up if we were finishing checks and punishing them consistently?
Why have we stopped snowing Howard as well? I've noticed in the 3 games we've lost there hasn't been any snow showers. We need to put the snow on Howard and ram the puck into the net.

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05-11-2011, 09:25 PM
  #34
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He clearly isn't. Babcock playing him like a violin. Dude is more stubborn than I am, and I thought that's impossible.

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05-11-2011, 09:36 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Winky View Post
Bingo.

Playing devil's advocate, I'm not too sure if he's being outcoached (at least, if he is, it's by a very negligible margin).

If our players would execute on the powerplay, we would be waiting to play Vancouver already. I guess you could argue that our PP strategy was working for games 1-3, then Babcoock made an adjustment, and McLellan hasn't readjusted. But really, I say it's our players not executing, and Detroit's players doing just that.
negligible margin? when you're at home and continually have wallin and white against datsyuk an zetteberg for goal after goal, you're being out coached. Any team that plays against the sharks does whatever it takes to get their top guys against the jumbo line, even on the road. To fail to matchup properly at home is criminal. If he doesn't trust the 4th line ever, how can he trust his 3rd pairing against 2 hall of famers?

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05-11-2011, 09:38 PM
  #36
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The Sharks current preformance should have no bearing on MC's ability. He's done the best he can with what he has.

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05-11-2011, 11:33 PM
  #37
SactoShork
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McLellan wouldn't adapt his game if Charles ****ing Darwin told him it was in his best interest.

I do like that he's a no BS guy, never EVER whines, doesn't play head games and has been able to keep this team in relatively prime shape.

It would be a mistake to let him go, but it would be a mistake to let him believe he doesn't have to keep up with the game outside his team.

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05-11-2011, 11:55 PM
  #38
dwood16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
You are into fantasyland. Top players don't for the most part and it is a losing strategy. Too many injuries. Note the injury frequency on Nolan and subsequent subpar play. Teams can't afford that if they want to go the distance. You use players whose skills are more replaceable to do that duty.

WT,
It isn't a lot, but being kind to the refs does get a few breaks. RW was horrid and the stats for the Sharks did turn around with his departure. McLellan and Babcock are pretty good about not blowing off the refs. A very occasional explosion is OK. Repeatedly, not so good. Take a look at the Ducks; their issues are not all strictly in play. Torts doesn't do well either. I have seen Martin and B. Sutter directly shafted.

Player/ref interactions are more fun. Crosby, Getzlaf and JT need to take a page from Pronger who has softened in his latter years. All 4 of the above have paid with lack of calls or extra time for overuse of their mouths.
Uhhhh Crosby and Getzlaf have cups... I think whatever they are doing has worked quite well.

Speaking of players like Getzlaf and Crosby, Should I make a list of top players who hit people in the playoffs, I mean come on! I'M in fantasyland???

So hitting people in the playoffs is a losing strategy? Weird because it seems to me that when teams are being punished with hits they tend to make poor plays with the puck. When the Sharks do decide to hit, I notice an immediate change in puck management from the Wings and most teams. The Sharks are huge, fast team.
Step away from the stat book and watch cause and effect.

Part of the tremendous success in the post season from players like RJ Umberger and Esa Tikkanen came from the chaos they cause when they are destroying people with huge hits.

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Old
05-12-2011, 12:26 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
Uhhhh Crosby and Getzlaf have cups... I think whatever they are doing has worked quite well.

Speaking of players like Getzlaf and Crosby, Should I make a list of top players who hit people in the playoffs, I mean come on! I'M in fantasyland???

So hitting people in the playoffs is a losing strategy? Weird because it seems to me that when teams are being punished with hits they tend to make poor plays with the puck. When the Sharks do decide to hit, I notice an immediate change in puck management from the Wings and most teams. The Sharks are huge, fast team.
Step away from the stat book and watch cause and effect.

Part of the tremendous success in the post season from players like RJ Umberger and Esa Tikkanen came from the chaos they cause when they are destroying people with huge hits.
There are some guys who hit, I never said there weren't. It is a huge risk. When Philly had its run last year, they backed off the hitting. The two recent successful teams where they were using top guys for hitting were the Ducks and Oil. The Pens use their lower lines, or top line throw-ins like Kunitz. Wings use throw-ins as well (Cleary, Bertuzzi, Holmstrom and a little of the Mule). The better way to prove your point is to go find a guy who is both skill and hitting and look at his health history and regularity of production. Off the top, I would start with Iginla as a good example, but he has only been out of the first round once. Getzlaf is a poor example due to health history which doesn't help a teams post season chances. Umberger is a throw-in, marginal top 6. More often than not, the successful skill players don't focus so much on hitting as close checking. See Toews, Dats, Zetterberg, etc.

Crosby and Getzlaf have rings but how have they been doing recently. It takes time for the ref effect. And it is a minor effect. A team can overome the effect, but why should they?

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05-12-2011, 01:09 AM
  #40
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TMac blows. This team is good enough to go over .500 with *no* coach. A good coach would have this team way over the top.

TMac follies:
  • Lousy PP that continues to utilize the umbrella scheme and continues to produce zilch.
  • A bizarre reluctance to have allstar forwards attack the slot vs passing back to offensively-stunted D.
  • Relies on grinding, percentage style hockey even though the team is loaded with talent up front.
  • Lousy PK scheme that cost plenty of games before he realized it wasn't a player execution issue but tactical issue.
  • Lousy offensive scheme that makes mediocre goalies look like gods.
  • Poor game clock and situation management.
  • Poor player TOI management.
  • Poor at making tactical changes between periods and between games.
  • Puts blame on player execution while not recognizing that the tactical plan can be the issue as well.
3 years, 3 very different teams and pretty much the same issues every year. JT and Heatley have changed their game, they got a true scoring 3rd line, added more scoring potential on the blueline, etc. and yet they're still making mediocre goalies look like gods by pounding a million worthless shots on goal and still can't score on the PP or 5-on-5 vs the better teams.

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05-12-2011, 01:26 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTooth View Post
TMac blows. This team is good enough to go over .500 with *no* coach. A good coach would have this team way over the top.

TMac follies:
  • Lousy PP that continues to utilize the umbrella scheme and continues to produce zilch.
  • A bizarre reluctance to have allstar forwards attack the slot vs passing back to offensively-stunted D.
  • Relies on grinding, percentage style hockey even though the team is loaded with talent up front.
  • Lousy PK scheme that cost plenty of games before he realized it wasn't a player execution issue but tactical issue.
  • Lousy offensive scheme that makes mediocre goalies look like gods.
  • Poor game clock and situation management.
  • Poor player TOI management.
  • Poor at making tactical changes between periods and between games.
  • Puts blame on player execution while not recognizing that the tactical plan can be the issue as well.
3 years, 3 very different teams and pretty much the same issues every year. JT and Heatley have changed their game, they got a true scoring 3rd line, added more scoring potential on the blueline, etc. and yet they're still making mediocre goalies look like gods by pounding a million worthless shots on goal and still can't score on the PP or 5-on-5 vs the better teams.
A few months ago you were saying the D is subpar and DW should be fired. Now a good couch could have us over the top? Your simply a Debbie Downer whenever the opportunity seems to arise.

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Old
05-12-2011, 08:54 AM
  #42
OneTooth
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A few months ago you were saying the D is subpar and DW should be fired. Now a good couch could have us over the top? Your simply a Debbie Downer whenever the opportunity seems to arise.
You're simply a blind homer with reading comprehension issues. I've always maintained that the Sharks have elite forwards that can win games regardless of the lousy D. Learn to comprehend and you'll see I've not changed my stance one bit.

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05-12-2011, 10:43 AM
  #43
Led Zappa
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You're simply a blind homer with reading comprehension issues. I've always maintained that the Sharks have elite forwards that can win games regardless of the lousy D. Learn to comprehend and you'll see I've not changed my stance one bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTooth View Post
Any way you slice it, the D corps is subpar. I'm surprised DW still has a job to be honest. In the last 3 years this team has gotten weaker IMO (even though they got to the 3rd round last year).


The Coach sucks, The GM sucks, The D sucks, The Team Sucks.

No reading comprehension problem here.

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05-12-2011, 11:19 AM
  #44
triplea112
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You're simply a blind homer with reading comprehension issues. I've always maintained that the Sharks have elite forwards that can win games regardless of the lousy D. Learn to comprehend and you'll see I've not changed my stance one bit.
even if the lousy D can't complete two passes or get a shot through on goal? You don't think our elite forwards are playing 3 on 5 every time they enter the offensive zone?

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05-12-2011, 12:22 PM
  #45
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I think McLellan is generally a good coach but Babcock has been owning him more and more as the series goes on. It's clear Detroit has made adjustments to the Sharks' approach: look at how often Detroit sneaks the weakside D-man into the high slot because they know the Sharks' fwds on defense tend to collapse low.

Similarly, Detroit's PK has gotten increasingly aggressive as the series goes on because they know what the Sharks are going to do: enter the zone with the drop pass at the point, then pass back and forth between the point man and the half boards, looking to set up a one-timer from the point with traffic in front. An adjustment here might be to forget the half-boards and overload down low, to try to set up Thornton behind the net looking for quick passes/deflects right in front, but I can't remember them ever trying this. Or maybe something else. The point is that the Sharks PP is much easier to defend when they have only one approach. They should be prepared to execute multiple strategies at any time based on the defense's configuration/tendencies.

The Sharks' breakouts have gotten worse, too. But watching on TV it's harder to figure out what the issue is there because you often can't see the neutral zone when the D-man starts with the puck behind his own net.

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05-12-2011, 12:38 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
The Coach sucks, The GM sucks, The D sucks, The Team Sucks.

No reading comprehension problem here.
You are oversimplifying his points and exaggerating rather than addressing his points individually. I don't agree with all of his points, but I do on some.

If anything you have been doing the same thing by insisting that you "just have a feeling" about this team versus previous incarnations rather than support it with concrete evidence. Right now, the evidence hasn't been swinging in your favor. Topping it off you back off the "feeling" thing when it comes to Marleau with the unsupported assertions about his feelings and exaggerations about his poor play. Plus the Marleau assertions sort of deny your "feeling" about the team as a whole.

How about some supportable evidence pro or con?

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05-12-2011, 12:44 PM
  #47
Led Zappa
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
You are oversimplifying his points and exaggerating rather than addressing his points individually. I don't agree with all of his points, but I do on some.

If anything you have been doing the same thing by insisting that you "just have a feeling" about this team versus previous incarnations rather than support it with concrete evidence. Right now, the evidence hasn't been swinging in your favor. Topping it off you back off the "feeling" thing when it comes to Marleau with the unsupported assertions about his feelings and exaggerations about his poor play. Plus the Marleau assertions sort of deny your "feeling" about the team as a whole.

How about some supportable evidence pro or con?
My point is he comes around when the team is doing poorly and rants about how much this team sucks. I'm not getting into a stats war with you today. I'm gonna enjoy the day, go to a game 7 and root for my team.

You can keep the doom and gloom going if you like.

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05-12-2011, 12:52 PM
  #48
CrazedZooChimp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
My point is he comes around when the team is doing poorly and rants about how much this team sucks. I'm not getting into a stats war with you today. I'm gonna enjoy the day, go to a game 7 and root for my team.

You can keep the doom and gloom going if you like.
You couldn't possibly have opened this thread not expecting mostly doom and gloom

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05-12-2011, 01:04 PM
  #49
SJeasy
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
My point is he comes around when the team is doing poorly and rants about how much this team sucks. I'm not getting into a stats war with you today. I'm gonna enjoy the day, go to a game 7 and root for my team.

You can keep the doom and gloom going if you like.
Again exaggerating my stance to try to score points.

I am not doom and gloom, but TM along with others will have some big points to prove or not tonight. I will enjoy the game. One-Tooth is not all doom and gloom; he is always giving credit to the talent of the SJ forwards. More than I would, but that is another issue.

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05-12-2011, 01:18 PM
  #50
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The poll options were pretty limited. I'd say TMac's been better than average, but not elite yet. An elite coache finds ways to get more consistent effort out of his team, and I think most would agree the Sharks have often been guilty of inconsistency in the effort area.

For example, the shift in momentum in the 3rd period of Game 5 should never have happened. Instead of keeping our foot on the throat of Detroit and continue will the puck cycling / offensive push that got us a 3-1 lead and had us way ahead puck possession and momentum-wise, the team went into prevent-defense mode and Detroit took us apart.

Also, I was surprised at how TMac changed up ALL of the lines because Clowe was out in Game 6. I was almost sure he'd just swap Ferriero in for Clowe on Line 2 and keep the other three lines the same. Instead, he swapped guys around on all four lines and we rarely controlled the play in Game 6. I understand the guys need to be able to play with different line-mates, but what we had was working fairly well (not counting the 3rd period of Game 5.)

And please, get someone to tell our team to let Niemi stop/freeze the pucks in crease scrambles and have the skaters concentrate on covering open guys/tying up sticks instead of everyone falling down around Niemi in panicked wanna-be-goalie desperation.

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