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Benoit Pouliot: not tendered qualifying offer (June 27)

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05-10-2011, 09:28 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Giving up 2 NHL players + 1st round pick to get a top 10 pick that might not even pan out is bad asset management.
Depends on the nhl players... you can't say with absolute certainty that it is bad asset management.

I'd give a 30th picks and 2 pluggers any day of the week for a Top 10 pick... and it would be incredible management.

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05-10-2011, 09:37 PM
  #127
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Depends on the nhl players... you can't say with absolute certainty that it is bad asset management.

I'd give a 30th picks and 2 pluggers any day of the week for a Top 10 pick... and it would be incredible management.
I love how people love to refute arguments with stuff that is completely irelevant. We aren't talking about a 30th pick, we are talking about moving up from a 17th pick. We are also talking about a consistent 15 goal scorer and a young PMD with potential upside after his first year in the NHL.

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05-11-2011, 09:52 AM
  #128
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Pouliot's low cap definitely gives him value.

I'm not saying he has to be Sideny Crosby. At all. Complete opposite really. I want to see him develop the simple parts of his game. Cycling, board work, discipline. I just find he is way too one dimensional. There are so many faults in his game that are really easy to fix with a little effort.
yeah, that pretty much sums up my feelings about him.


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05-11-2011, 10:35 AM
  #129
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Pouliot's low cap definitely gives him value.

I'm not saying he has to be Sideny Crosby. At all. Complete opposite really. I want to see him develop the simple parts of his game. Cycling, board work, discipline. I just find he is way too one dimensional. There are so many faults in his game that are really easy to fix with a little effort.
He's 25 if those things were easy to fix don't you think he would have done it in the 6 years since being drafted? I'm sure scouting directors, coaches and GM's have been trying to improve his game, obviously without the desires success.

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05-11-2011, 12:40 PM
  #130
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What do you think he should've done with Pouliot then? Play him on the top-6, where the matchups would have:
- make him produce less because he is faced with better forwards and defensemen
- hamper his line defensively because he's not only much too aggressive he doesn't really have the defensive positioning game to play against top players
- worn him down
- made him look bad as a result of the above?

People really need to realize that playing in the top-6 is in no way a cushy opportunity that allows a player with offensive skills to strut their stuff. If that opportunity exists, it's only on the power play. In the modern NHL, a top-6 role is a serious responsibility that requires two-way ability.

In no way was Pouliot benched for "a single mistake". It was an accumulation. Pouliot's icetime was gradually curtailed because he was not only not getting the job done, but getting worse.



I don't believe that at all. There is no way to argue this considering that by the end of the season Martin was using Subban systematically as the first pairing -- when the option of reuniting Hamrlik and Spacek, who had been effective in this role



Eller was given increasing amounts of icetime in increasingly tougher situations as he developped. It was the same approach used to bring up Plekanec, and that worked quite nicely, thank you very much. Not everyone is Sidney Crosby. Eller is going to be an important piece on a strong NHL club at the tender age of 22. That's really very young.

DD averaged 10 minutes a game in the regular season and, most importantly, almost two minutes a game of power play time. He was not given a raw deal in any way, shape, or form. Considering that he needed to be sheltered, Martin actually went out of his way to give him opportunities -- but DD earned them.



Don't you think that, if anything, MaxPac actually calling out his coach wouldn't normally have led him to getting less opportunity, rather than more?

Look, I think Martin can be criticized for his handling of Sergei (but not his utilization) and he completely borked Latendresse, too. But when you say that this year he has been holding back the kids, frankly, you're imagining justifications to make it stick. You're assuming that Markov and Gorges would have put Subban in the pressbox and that Martin actually cares enough about a kid talking to the media to play him more (yet proved mysteriously immune to all the calls demanding he play DD more). It just doesn't add up.

Montreal played what, four, five rookies on a semi-regular basis? White, DD, Eller, Subban, and Weber? On a 23-man roster, that is a huge number. And that doesn't even factor in MaxPac. That's a lot of NHL icetime devoted to the kids.

After watching the Red Wings and Sharks game last night, I take back what I posted earlier.

Martin is a far superior coach than McClellan and Babcock. Hell, McClellan was using an AHL player last night (Ferrier sp). At least Babcock had the common sense to use his seasoned players, even though he relies on Abdelkader too much.

And damn, did you see how aggressively both teams played? There was very little room for either team to skate. Especially Babcock's Red Wings. I cannot believe that Babcock would force his players to play so hard and intense for 60 minutes. What a dumb ass coach running the risk that his players might be tired at the end of the game.

I prefer the passive, easy skating style of Martin on defense. At the end of the Canadiens games, our players are still fresh as opposed to the Red Wings and Sharks who looked gassed at the end of the game. And I also appreciate Martin not overusing our young guys so that they can be really fresh at the end of the game.

Bravo. Go JM!!!!!!!!! I am now a believer.

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05-11-2011, 08:04 PM
  #131
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AK at least competes most nights, he leads the team in hits and he has improved a lot in the last year defensively. Pouliot is ultra steaky, he's fine when things are going well, but when they aren't he is a liability.
It will never cease to amaze me to see fans of the same team see two polar opposite about a player. Not saying that I'm right and you're wrong here (or vice-versa), but I honestly can say without pretension that I see the exact opposite.

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05-11-2011, 08:53 PM
  #132
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It sort of feel like Martin gave up on him quickly. Remember when he came in after the trade he was on fire on the first line with Gomez and Gionta. And then he lost it at the end of the season and was nowhere to be found in the playoffs. So during a long run he proved that he could be a top player it's just that he somehow lost his way. It's just a matter of bringing him back together again and make him do what he was doing back then.

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05-11-2011, 08:56 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
It sort of feel like Martin gave up on him quickly. Remember when he came in after the trade he was on fire on the first line with Gomez and Gionta. And then he lost it at the end of the season and was nowhere to be found in the playoffs. So during a long run he proved that he could be a top player it's just that he somehow lost his way. It's just a matter of bringing him back together again and make him do what he was doing back then.
He cannot handle top 6 duties for some reason. He is super hard on himself when he is up there. He does have many skill's but myself and fans are loosing patience for him at this point.

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05-11-2011, 09:05 PM
  #134
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It sort of feel like Martin gave up on him quickly. Remember when he came in after the trade he was on fire on the first line with Gomez and Gionta. And then he lost it at the end of the season and was nowhere to be found in the playoffs. So during a long run he proved that he could be a top player it's just that he somehow lost his way. It's just a matter of bringing him back together again and make him do what he was doing back then.
He's been the same his whole career. He sucked in the WJCs, he sucked in the AHL playoffs and now he sucks in the NHL playoffs. Kid has both great size and skill, if he was willing to pay the price he'd be a much more successful NHL player.

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05-11-2011, 09:33 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
After watching the Red Wings and Sharks game last night, I take back what I posted earlier.

Martin is a far superior coach than McClellan and Babcock. Hell, McClellan was using an AHL player last night (Ferrier sp). At least Babcock had the common sense to use his seasoned players, even though he relies on Abdelkader too much.

And damn, did you see how aggressively both teams played? There was very little room for either team to skate. Especially Babcock's Red Wings. I cannot believe that Babcock would force his players to play so hard and intense for 60 minutes. What a dumb ass coach running the risk that his players might be tired at the end of the game.

I prefer the passive, easy skating style of Martin on defense. At the end of the Canadiens games, our players are still fresh as opposed to the Red Wings and Sharks who looked gassed at the end of the game. And I also appreciate Martin not overusing our young guys so that they can be really fresh at the end of the game.

Bravo. Go JM!!!!!!!!! I am now a believer.
Worst post ever!!!!Babcock went on the attack with a 2-1 lead and never let the Sharks back into it. JM lays back as soon as he gets a lead,even in the 2nd period !. And it cost us game 4 and the series ! There's a reason JM has never got to the final and Babcock has won it. Get a grip man. JM is a good coach for an average team.That's it.He'll never win a cup. He's not a winner. 50-61 playoff record says it all

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05-11-2011, 10:21 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by jlgib21 View Post
Worst post ever!!!!Babcock went on the attack with a 2-1 lead and never let the Sharks back into it. JM lays back as soon as he gets a lead,even in the 2nd period !. And it cost us game 4 and the series ! There's a reason JM has never got to the final and Babcock has won it. Get a grip man. JM is a good coach for an average team.That's it.He'll never win a cup. He's not a winner. 50-61 playoff record says it all
i thought this post was sarcastic beyond belief if not very well disguised trolling.

which is why i didn't bother responding to it

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05-11-2011, 11:09 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
i thought this post was sarcastic beyond belief if not very well disguised trolling.

which is why i didn't bother responding to it
One out of two isnt bad.

That was sarcasm at its finest (or worst).

I dont troll. I have been a Habs fan for a long long time. Long enough to realize that we do not stand a chance to win the Cup as long as we have coaches like Martin who believe in passive play.

Both the Sharks and the Red Wings epitomize what hockey should be. Puck control and aggressive defense. Havent seen that around here for many many years.

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Worst post ever!!!!Babcock went on the attack with a 2-1 lead and never let the Sharks back into it. JM lays back as soon as he gets a lead,even in the 2nd period !. And it cost us game 4 and the series ! There's a reason JM has never got to the final and Babcock has won it. Get a grip man. JM is a good coach for an average team.That's it.He'll never win a cup. He's not a winner. 50-61 playoff record says it all


As said above, that post was nothing but sarcasm.

I agree with what you posted here.

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05-12-2011, 07:06 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
It sort of feel like Martin gave up on him quickly. Remember when he came in after the trade he was on fire on the first line with Gomez and Gionta. And then he lost it at the end of the season and was nowhere to be found in the playoffs. So during a long run he proved that he could be a top player it's just that he somehow lost his way. It's just a matter of bringing him back together again and make him do what he was doing back then.
How did he give up on him quickly? He's been getting chance after chance for the last 100+ games with virtually no results. He stuck with him on the Gomez-Gionta line for 6 weeks of regular season and 2-3 weeks of playoffs before finally pulling the plug last year. Pouliot is a guy that has to generate offense to be worth dressing each night as he is below average defensively and does not play any other role(faceoffs, shot blocks, PK etc).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
One out of two isnt bad.

That was sarcasm at its finest (or worst).

I dont troll. I have been a Habs fan for a long long time. Long enough to realize that we do not stand a chance to win the Cup as long as we have coaches like Martin who believe in passive play.

Both the Sharks and the Red Wings epitomize what hockey should be. Puck control and aggressive defense. Havent seen that around here for many many years.
Hvaing our best player out of the lineup most of the last 2 years had a direct effect on the style of game you play. I think JM and PG want to play a more puck control game and have said so, but for that you need your best players in the lineup.

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05-12-2011, 07:27 AM
  #139
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Sitting at his table at the amateur draft back in 2005, having to select fifth overall, Bob Gainey has his plan of action. His target? Benoit Pouliot, a 6’2″ French-Canadian winger who just finished his rookie season with the Sudbury Wolves with 67 points including 29 goals in 67 games. However, the Minnesota Wild picks him just ahead of the Canadiens… who then have to go to plan B: Carey Price.

Pouliot returned to the Wolves where he collected 65 points, 35 of them goals, in only 51 games. He then struggled to bring his game to the next level, going back and forth between Houston and Minnesota for the next 3 years, before being traded to the Canadiens on November 23, 2009 for Guillaume Latendresse. We know the rest. Pouliot finished the season strong collecting 15 goals in 39 games for the Habs, playing on a line with Scott Gomez and Brian Gionta.

Read more...
Good article....odd how things work out at times. If we had a higher pick than Minny we would never have Carey Price. Also says Bob Gainey had say in first round. Many say it is Timmins but back then team was drafting much better in later rounds than first, I always suspected Gainey having the choice with first pick. In Gainey's early years as GM we had some major mistakes in frist round. Kostitsyn, Fischer, Chipchura, but late rounds were one of most successful teams.

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05-12-2011, 07:34 AM
  #140
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Good article....odd how things work out at times. If we had a higher pick than Minny we would never have Carey Price. Also says Bob Gainey had say in first round. Many say it is Timmins but back then team was drafting much better in later rounds than first, I always suspected Gainey having the choice with first pick. In Gainey's early years as GM we had some major mistakes in frist round. Kostitsyn, Fischer, Chipchura, but late rounds were one of most successful teams.
When has Gainey told anybody that he was planning to draft Pouliot if he was still there?

Also, in the 1st round I'm sure GM's have a say, but the picks are still 80-90% influenced by the scouts and head scout. If a GM likes a guy but his scouts see red flags and don't like him, I doubt that team drafts him.

Thirdly, how is AK a "major mistake"? Drafting Hugh Jessiman is a major mistake, not drafting a guy who has 84 goals the last 4 years. Sure they may have missed out on better players, but the draft is not an inexact science unlike what some posters here would have you believe.

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05-12-2011, 07:01 PM
  #141
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How did he give up on him quickly? He's been getting chance after chance for the last 100+ games with virtually no results. He stuck with him on the Gomez-Gionta line for 6 weeks of regular season and 2-3 weeks of playoffs before finally pulling the plug last year. Pouliot is a guy taht has to generate offense to be worth dressing each night as he is below average defensively and does not play any other role(faceoffs, shot blocks, PK etc).
Martin always give up on guys when they don't fit in his system. Look at what happened with Lats and Lappy. They were on fire under Carbo and dropped quickly under Martin because they were not doing what he wanted them to do.

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05-12-2011, 07:07 PM
  #142
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He's 25 if those things were easy to fix don't you think he would have done it in the 6 years since being drafted? I'm sure scouting directors, coaches and GM's have been trying to improve his game, obviously without the desires success.
I would not be surprised if Tampa Bay picked him up. Boucher seems to know how to motivate the players each in their individual way and get the best out of them. I just have a feeling.

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05-12-2011, 07:07 PM
  #143
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You shouldn't be a project at 25, anyway seems if your in Martin's doghouse your likely gone. Ironically we lose one of our better fighters, although I'll crap a brick if all we get is a 3rd or 4th for him.

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05-12-2011, 07:17 PM
  #144
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Martin always give up on guys when they don't fit in his system. Look at what happened with Lats and Lappy. They were on fire under Carbo and dropped quickly under Martin because they were not doing what he wanted them to do.
Hard to judge for Lats as he missed the season... but Lapierre is in 2nd team since he left the Habs already, and looking at how effective he is on the ice, I doubt he'll be a Canucks next season...

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05-12-2011, 09:02 PM
  #145
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05-13-2011, 06:36 AM
  #146
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I would not be surprised if Tampa Bay picked him up. Boucher seems to know how to motivate the players each in their individual way and get the best out of them. I just have a feeling.
It's not a motivation problem, he has serious holes in his game that he has not fixed in 6 years since being drafted.

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05-13-2011, 09:08 AM
  #147
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I would wait at least another year before giving up on him.

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05-13-2011, 09:33 AM
  #148
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Pouliot probably needs a coach who won't give up on him at the first sign of trouble. Martin isn't that coach.

But we have little talent on the wings. Giving up on Pouliot would be stupid, we have few young wingers with the potential to be decent scorers.

Quote:
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Thirdly, how is AK a "major mistake"? Drafting Hugh Jessiman is a major mistake, not drafting a guy who has 84 goals the last 4 years. Sure they may have missed out on better players, but the draft is not an inexact science unlike what some posters here would have you believe.
The AK pick was a mistake, there is no other way to look at it.

You don't select a high risk player in the first round -- especially not an European -- when there are plenty of players available who have a very high ceiling and are much safer picks. The 2003 draft was not one in which Timmins could afford to take a risk.


Last edited by Montreal Typical: 05-13-2011 at 09:38 AM.
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05-13-2011, 09:39 AM
  #149
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05-13-2011, 09:42 AM
  #150
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Pouliot probably needs a coach who won't give up on him at the first sign of trouble. Martin isn't that coach.

But we have little talent on the wings. Giving up on Pouliot would be stupid, we have few young wingers with the potential to be decent scorers.



The AK pick was a mistake, there is no other way to look at it.

You don't select a high risk player in the first round -- especially not an European -- when there are plenty of players available who have a very high ceiling and are much safer picks. The 2003 draft was not one in which Timmins could afford to take a risk.
The only risk for AK was his epilepsy and they probably got their doctors to look at that in great detail so there was not much of a risk.

If they let Pouliot go I think he'd end up traded for a similar "project" type player like Skille, Beregfors or Frolik.

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