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Emelin close to signing 1-year deal with Habs

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05-11-2011, 10:24 PM
  #326
Markowicz
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
That seems a little hopeful, physical D-men types tend to get a little overrated, especially by McGuire. But he's solid (he wouldn't play all these minutes in the KHL otherwise) and with the D-men the Habs have, he really doesn't need to be the #3.
Since he's usually pretty skeptical of whatever the upper management does, If McGuire is giving this deal the thumbs up, to me that means it's a great deal. McGuire is usually pretty bang on in his assessments.

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05-11-2011, 10:27 PM
  #327
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Size doesn't mean anything. The big bad Flyers got swept by the Bruins while our rag-tag group of defensemen took them to the brink.

Just look at Hal Gill. Tallest guy on our team and probably the softest. I'd rather have 6 foot Josh Gorges than 6'3" Niclas Wallin.

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05-11-2011, 10:34 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
Size doesn't mean anything. The big bad Flyers got swept by the Bruins while our rag-tag group of defensemen took them to the brink.

Just look at Hal Gill. Tallest guy on our team and probably the softest. I'd rather have 6 foot Josh Gorges than 6'3" Niclas Wallin.
Thing is, when people talk about size, they talk about size that is tough, gritty and all that. Nobody wants Peter Popovic back. Clearly, there are some 6'0'' who are tough to roughen up that everybody would take on their team....Thing is some of those guys are still surrounded by tougher 6'2'' as well....There is something you can't do at one point against guys with a bigger body and reach. Yes, you can outsmart them positionnally and all, but there is a limit to what you can do.

And then you talk about Gill....well as average as he is, he was able to do a hell of a job SOLELY because of his reach....not his positioning.

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05-11-2011, 10:36 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
Well now we have Emelin, who plays Murray's style. As i wrote in another post (that as usual nobody read) Emelin's biggest asset is his hitting ability, and unlike an enforcer who plays 5-8 minutes a game and doesn't have much influence over the game, Emelin's ability to to run people over will eventually curtail other teams player's from taking liberties with ours. I'll admit though that we're still small. Getting rid of Spacek would solve a lot of our problems, as it would free up the cash to get a d-man with size and skill. Maybe not the best d-men out there (Ehrhoff, Bieksa, Pitkanen) but maybe a Brewer or Hejda. But even then, i see these guys being overpriced due the lack of good UFA D-men.

Look for Gauthier to try to shore up the D with a guy like John Erskine, who has no real offensive game but is big, tough and able to clear the crease with ease. It simply would not be fiscally responsible for Gauthier to sign a guy like Wiz, Ehrhoff or Bieksa to long term contracts of 4-5M a year, when Subban and Price will soon cost a pretty penny.
I agree with almost everything you said, except for the bolded part.

Assuming Subban and Price both get somewhere between 4-5 mil, you also have to consider that Hamrlik and Spacek will be gone. If we can manage to have Markov-Hamr-Spacek-Price at the tune of 17,8 with a cap of 59,4, then Markov-Subban-Ehrhoff(or whoever)-Price at the tune of 20-21 mil isn't that big a difference (2,2mil-3,2mil) considering the cap might be at 65 by 12-13, which is the first contract year of both Subban and Price's next contracts. By that time, Gomez might not be cap problem anymore, and we'll still have a lot of manoeuvring space for our forwards, with all the important pieces signed.

It's actually an imperative, IMO, to try and replace Hamr with someone worth the same cap hit (best target Ehrhoff). Spacek gone by next year will give the space needed for Subban and the cap rise will take plenty care of Price's cap upgrade.

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05-11-2011, 10:47 PM
  #330
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I expect Gill back, and with he, Subban, Gorges, and Emelin making up 2/3s of our defense corps, and all on the cheap, we can afford two big money guys. I expect Markov and Wiz to be those players.

This is assuming that we can get someone to take on Spacek...

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05-11-2011, 10:50 PM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Markov 6'0
Subban 6'0
Gorges 6'0
Emelin 6'0
Spacek 5'11
Wiz 5'11
Weber 5'11

You don't see a problem here?
You forgot to type the key for inches: " ?

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Old
05-11-2011, 10:51 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
I agree with almost everything you said, except for the bolded part.

Assuming Subban and Price both get somewhere between 4-5 mil, you also have to consider that Hamrlik and Spacek will be gone. If we can manage to have Markov-Hamr-Spacek-Price at the tune of 17,8 with a cap of 59,4, then Markov-Subban-Ehrhoff(or whoever)-Price at the tune of 20-21 mil isn't that big a difference (2,2mil-3,2mil) considering the cap might be at 65 by 12-13, which is the first contract year of both Subban and Price's next contracts. By that time, Gomez might not be cap problem anymore, and we'll still have a lot of manoeuvring space for our forwards, with all the important pieces signed.

It's actually an imperative, IMO, to try and replace Hamr with someone worth the same cap hit (best target Ehrhoff). Spacek gone by next year will give the space needed for Subban and the cap rise will take plenty care of Price's cap upgrade.
Subban and Price next contract should come in around 8 to 8.5m. Remember that this will PK second contract and he won t be getting gigantic increase. That will be his next contract when Habs will buying UFA years. At the moment they make a combine 3.5m. Spacek and Moen will be coming off the books ( they combine for 5.3m) which more than enough to cover PK and Price increase with enough left over to start paying a replacement for Spacek and Moen with farmhands or a cheap UFA.

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05-11-2011, 10:52 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by whitespy View Post
if we find someone to take Spacek off our hands, I'll run naked in the streets
That might just be reason enough to keep him here - unless you got man boobs.

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Old
05-11-2011, 10:57 PM
  #334
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Just noticed that Yemelin is listed as 6'2" 223 lbs on the IIHF website. Is he really that big? That's Volchenkov's size. I've always seen him listed as 6'0 195 lbs, which is why people compared him to Kronwall.

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Old
05-11-2011, 11:18 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Clumsyhab View Post
Just noticed that Yemelin is listed as 6'2" 223 lbs on the IIHF website. Is he really that big? That's Volchenkov's size. I've always seen him listed as 6'0 195 lbs, which is why people compared him to Kronwall.
6'1'' on the KHL site. Something tells me though that 223 lbs can't mean that he's terribly in shape. I've watched Emelin every single year since his draft pick except this year, and I've never seen him THAT big.

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05-11-2011, 11:45 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
Emelin is comparable in my opinion. The guy plays very much so on the edge.

Subban has been throwing bombs too, so atleast we'd have two guys there. Wisniewski is fairly physical and he's an underrated open-ice hitter.

Most important aspect to defense in the post-lockout NHL is puck movement and mobility, size and stay at home types are still needed but they aren't as effective as before. The lockout put an early end to a couple big slow defenseman, it's actually amazing Gill is still around... It's a testament to how great he plays down the stretch, his efficiency on the penalty kill and the love from his team mates. He's a serious liability 5-on-5, though.
Hey, I'm as excited about Yemelin as anyone, but I would not compare him to Douglas (don't call him Doug) Murray. Murray is a physical beast. Aaron Ward basically admitted on TSN the other night that Murray threatened him after a whistle and Ward immediately headed his warning. He was not messing around.
I would put Yemelin more in the Knonwall category (a poor man's version of course).

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Old
05-12-2011, 12:02 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
6'1'' on the KHL site. Something tells me though that 223 lbs can't mean that he's terribly in shape. I've watched Emelin every single year since his draft pick except this year, and I've never seen him THAT big.
Never trust any height/weight stats from the NHL, let alone the KHL.

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Old
05-12-2011, 12:16 AM
  #338
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Sorry been away for a couple days and I'm too lazy to read all these posts but I saw and was a bit taken aback that Mcguire thought Emelin might fit in as the 3/4D next year? Isn't that a bit much to ask a rookie D trying to adapt to a NA game? Anyone?

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Old
05-12-2011, 12:26 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
Never trust any height/weight stats from the NHL, let alone the KHL.
Both Subban and Kostitsyn weigh in at around 215 pounds on a 6'0" frame, if Emelin has a similar atheletically thick body type I could see him being fit at 223 pounds on 6'1" to 6'2" high frame.

The way I see it, the defense the Habs ended the year with was an effective unit that should be upgraded and made younger with the aging Hamerlik, Gill and Spacek needing eventual replacements. Hamerlik's role as a minute eating all situations blueliner that can anchor a pairing on his own will be made younger and better by Markov returning to that role. Gorges is a younger and superior option to Gill as a top-4 stay-at-homer and PK ace. That leaves Spacek, if Emelin can fill Spacek's skates as the anchor of the third pairing and option to compliment on of the top-4 pairings (effectively #5 role) while providing a strong crease clearer to help the penalty kill, the Habs will have both gotten younger and managed to upgrade their defense into one that should be among the best in the conference.

Markov(#1)-Wisniewski (#3-4) (Offensive unit paired against medium competition)
Gorges(#3-4)-Subban (#1-2) (Shut-down unit paired against opposing top lines, likely in conjuction with Plekanec)
Emelin(#5-6)-Weber(#5-6) (Soft minutes third pairing)
Is what I'm hoping Montreal will ice 1 - 1 1/2 years from now.

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Old
05-12-2011, 01:27 AM
  #340
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Summer fantasy lineup?:
Markov - Bieksa?/Wisniewski?/Erhoff?/O'Brien?
Gorges/Gill? - Subban
Emelin - Weber/Gorges
Spacek
Sopel?/Mara?







Reality lineup:
Markov - Gorges
Gill - Subban
Emelin - Weber
Spacek
Sopel?/Mara?
Carle?
(imo, the above lineup is still missing a Kevin Bieksa or at least a Shane O'Brien...we may be missing some toughness against teams like Bos and Philly...maybe re-sign Paul Mara on the cheap? but I'd still be happy with Subban/Markov/Gorges/Emelin/Gill/Weber).

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Old
05-12-2011, 02:46 AM
  #341
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Originally Posted by habsrule22 View Post
Subban and Price next contract should come in around 8 to 8.5m. Remember that this will PK second contract and he won t be getting gigantic increase. That will be his next contract when Habs will buying UFA years. At the moment they make a combine 3.5m. Spacek and Moen will be coming off the books ( they combine for 5.3m) which more than enough to cover PK and Price increase with enough left over to start paying a replacement for Spacek and Moen with farmhands or a cheap UFA.
Well i guess if the salary cap is going to be that high, than yeah, i'd consider it. I guess i'm just worried about facing another Hamrlik/Spacek situation. I kind of get the feeling that Vancouver would be dumb to not re-sign at least one of the two (bieksa/Ehrhoff). Whoever will stay will get a bit less than market value, and then they'll patchwork their 3rd and 4th lines. Whoever they don't sign will be an even more sought after commodity because the other would be off the board. Basically what i'm trying to say is that a player like Bieksa, who's probably worth around 4m, will go for at least 4.75. I don't know (and i'm just being honest here) if i'd rather spend that kind of coin on a guy who'll want at least a 4 year deal. Maybe I'd be more interested in taking a shorter term option on a less flashy guy who might cost around 2.5-3, and then have some dough left over for some talent up front.

Guess I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

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Old
05-12-2011, 03:23 AM
  #342
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Is he the best D on his team in the KHL?

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05-12-2011, 04:18 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by McNuts View Post
Is he the best D on his team in the KHL?
Probably not considering they have Nikulin and now Korneev is there. However, Emelin played like a number one all year long. And he is on a great team may I remind you. You`ve already met two other D...throw in Hossa, Morozov, Pesonen, Zaripov, Immonen and Kapanen. Tereshenko is pretty good as well.

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05-12-2011, 04:34 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by jlgib21 View Post
We allow alot of goals in close,because opponents have no fear of jamming and digging the puck. Obviously you need the puck movers also.I haven't seen Emelin,heard he's a big hitter,but would like to see him myself.
I'm not questioning that, and I don't think that's something we can fix if we continue playing this system. What's important is to have the best transition possible and the best offensive D-man (as long as they are not liabilities see: MAB) we can get to assist our forwards in generating offense, as that has been our biggest problem the past couple seasons.

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Old
05-12-2011, 05:05 AM
  #345
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Arpon Basu's initial report of Yemelin only able to make up to 1 million is false. He updated it.

As I suspected, I botched this good and proper. Yemelin's base salary as a 2004 draft pick would in fact be capped at $984,200, and he would be eligible to receive up to $2,850,000 in performance bonuses for a total amount of $3,834,200.

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Old
05-12-2011, 05:13 AM
  #346
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TBH if he comes over I don't think we need Wiz or Hammer to come back. We should instead focus that money on improving our mediocre offense. While we may not be able to add a star, adding someone like Laich or Jagr and bumping down AK to the third line with Eller could go a long way.

Anyway, as I see it, if Emelin impresses at the Worlds and in camp we could see him right away paired with Markov as a mentor. It wouldn't be the first time we've put inexperienced players beside him anyway.

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Gill - Weber
Spacek

If he doesn't seem like he's going to adapt well enough to take on those minutes then we play him with a vet on the third pairing to start off and proceed to go with proven pairings as our 1-2.

Markov - Gorges
Gill - Subban
Spacek - Emelin
Weber

In both cases we get some decent puck moving ability on every pairing.

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Old
05-12-2011, 05:38 AM
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Size is irrelevant on case per case basis.

It becomes relevant on average, as you need different types of players to do different things. It's a question of balance. I don't want big guys all around, as much as I don't want small guys all around, but contrarily to others, I do understand the need for a couple of big bodies around the net, for many reasons.

BTW, Pouliot is a forward, stick to Ds if you want to give examples, as forwards don't need to use their size as much, and league average is taller for Ds, smaller for forwards.

Why don't you talk of Sopel, Gill and Mara, and the reason why the Habs use them despite their seeming lack of offensive talent?
I guess what I find to be over rated is height. Weight, strength and balance is what you need to control the crease as a d-man. Height plays no factor in any of those things.
Pouliot wasn't the best example, but if you compared Gill and Subban, I think Subban can clear bodies better than Gill. Gill uses his reach and his big body to get in the way of the puck. You never see him man handling anyone and he is 6'7".
All I am saying is I would rather have a D-man who is something like 6'0" 225 rather than a D-man who is 6'6" 210. Again, weight, strength and balance are key and a low center of gravity adds to those more so than being top heavy.

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05-12-2011, 05:47 AM
  #348
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The hype machine is on.

I cant wait till he struggles and gets boo'ed back to russia.

Only habs fans can go bananas over a mid-level prospect as a 4-5 dman.

Let him play christ, then eveluate him. Most of you have seen him play in highlight packages or heard PierreJizz Mcguire talk about him.

Whats next, are you all planning to chant his name from the rafters? "Emelin! 6'2! Emelin! 6'2!"

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Old
05-12-2011, 06:08 AM
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsrule22 View Post
Subban and Price next contract should come in around 8 to 8.5m. Remember that this will PK second contract and he won t be getting gigantic increase. That will be his next contract when Habs will buying UFA years. At the moment they make a combine 3.5m. Spacek and Moen will be coming off the books ( they combine for 5.3m) which more than enough to cover PK and Price increase with enough left over to start paying a replacement for Spacek and Moen with farmhands or a cheap UFA.
Are you saying 8 to 8,5 for both or each?

If it's for both, you're repeating the same thing I said, just a bit differently. I expect Subban to sign around 3,5 to 4,5 and Price from 4,5 to 5,5. If Subban gets one hell of a season next year, you'll have to expect him to get closer to 5 mil, like many other RFA superstars-to-be that signed close to 5 mil in the last few years (Weber, Richards, Carter).

If it's for each, you're wack.

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05-12-2011, 06:17 AM
  #350
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We will need a good fighter with Emelin. We shoul have had one last year for PK. 4 or 5 fights from these guys is too many.

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