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Old
05-12-2011, 10:01 AM
  #226
RandyHolt
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Here let me break the cycle ignoring the ignore button.

Who are the two best coaches, is a better question. Give a Murray Ovi. Wilson, Schoenfeld, and then we can compare success stories. Ovi is an all world difference maker.

The only won that fumbled that one away was Hanlon. Bruce is on his way to fumbling it away too. He should consider himself lucky to have a job.

I think Bryan Murray may be the best Caps coach of all time. I loved his tactical adjustments in the playoffs, something that Bruce could use a lesson on.

I wonder how the players feel about Bruce being retained. Sure, Brooks PR guy Laich pins the loss on himself, but doubt they all do away from a twit account. They were too young and too passive to make a real run this year. Bruce looked like a playoff noob. What did he do in these playoffs that you liked? Benched Fehr? Rode Neuvy?

It all comes back to George and how he has constructed the team. I would think the bar was not set to win a cup this year, but then the deadline deals he repeatedly does, tells me the cup his goal every year.

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05-12-2011, 10:29 AM
  #227
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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Funny thing about Bryan Murray: look at his playoff record with the Caps. It's remarkably like Boudreau's. He alternated losing in the first and second round.

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05-12-2011, 10:43 AM
  #228
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Murray was not without his faults and failures - he was at the core of our teams playoff failures. But I like his methodical approach. Assigning Gaetan to shadow Bossy resulted in Gates potting 4 goals while limiting Bossy to 1. Pounding that giveaway prone young defensemen, and by not using his A1 goal scorer soley, to do so.

I always felt Murray was too obsessed with the dump and chase, but it obviously worked to the tune of being able to get a ton of shots in all those pivotal close playoff games where we choked. Like Bruce, he did steer us out of being a laughing stock.

* Murray faced some stiff competition in our division. Facing long established franchises, we just couldnt get over that offensive stonewalling in big playoff games, our Gs outplayed. He was helped by all the great D pickups by D. Poile. The D stands for defensemen, his specialty. He and Murray just couldn't get us over the hump offensively, or get A1 G play when it mattered most.

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05-12-2011, 10:48 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Who are the two best coaches, is a better question. Give a Murray Ovi. Wilson, Schoenfeld, and then we can compare success stories. Ovi is an all world difference maker.
So without taking anyone away you want to put Ovechkin on the mid 80's Caps and see what Bryan Murray could get out him? Does Boudreau get Langway under the same conditions in this hypothetical? Anyone think an in his prime Langway would have made a difference to this team...?

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05-12-2011, 10:57 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
So without taking anyone away you want to put Ovechkin on the mid 80's Caps and see what Bryan Murray could get out him? Does Boudreau get Langway under the same conditions in this hypothetical? Anyone think an in his prime Langway would have made a difference to this team...?
Do you categorize Langway as a top 5 player in the world during his time? Apples to Oranges. But i get your point.

But to play along, rest assured that Bruce would have the proven stay at homer Langway taking as many risks as possible, offensive zone, center ice, and leave old Murphy with Maruk covering to stop the puck. Change what Langway does best. Maruk too. Book it. You know its true.

So who do you think the best caps coach of all time is?

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05-12-2011, 11:18 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Do you categorize Langway as a top 5 player in the world during his time? Apples to Oranges. But i get your point.

But to play along, rest assured that Bruce would have the proven stay at homer Langway taking as many risks as possible, offensive zone, center ice, and leave old Murphy with Maruk covering to stop the puck. Change what Langway does best. Maruk too. Book it. You know its true.

So who do you think the best caps coach of all time is?
For Langway to have won 2 Norris Trophies in a row during the time when Coffey and Bourque were in their early primes and putting up some of their best numbers ever, Potvin was in the midst of winning 4 Cups in a row, and immediate previous winners Wilson and Carlyle were in their primes says all that needs to be said about how good Langway was IMO.

And you can't say that Boudreau would have made Langway worse by taking him out of his element and not allow for the probability that Murray would have hitched a thoroughbred Ovechkin to the plow with similar negative results.

Honestly I don't know who I think the best Caps coach of all time is. Wilson getting a not all that talented team to the finals, Kolzig's heroics or not, stands out as the best coaching job in the short term IMO. But best coach overall in franchise history? I don't know...

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05-12-2011, 11:56 AM
  #232
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Tough to say indeed. Its all about getting the most out of what you got. Every coach gets served up a different plate than those before them, and they face different expections. So who is the best or most successful becomes tough to grade. Bruce has coached in a patty cake division. Sure carolina won a cup. Our division games were blah before Tampa came around. ZZZ. Hardly prepping us for playoff games.

I believe Bruce may simply be facing unreal expectations placed on him by us because he got Ovi seemingly in his prime. But the rest of the team just isn't there. Our goalies are just graduating kindergarden. Bruce may have been hired with the simple expectation to make it to the playoffs during the greenhorn years, and win a cup by 15. Hoisted by Sarge first.

Its tough to get a read on George and his expectation of Bruce in any given year. I think we all need to take a step back and realize George has low expectations now. Again its a conflicting thing, seeing his deadline moves, but otherwise going with a greenhorn movement.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 05-12-2011 at 12:12 PM.
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05-12-2011, 12:00 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by dpj0122 View Post
Yeah, ludicrous is the word. And don't talk to me about regular season and individual awards. Means nothing.
This puts me in mind of a press conference that former Detroit Lion's head coach Wayne Fontes once gave, where he declared himself "one of the all-time greatest Lion coaches."

The reporters were shaking their heads... one of "all-time greats"?????

Fontes went on to explain that the number of wins he'd achieved ranked him right at the top of Lion head coaches.

Of course, Ol'Wayne left one little tidbit out: he also held (and still holds) the all-time record for losses as a Detroit Lion's head coach.



Look guy,

You're trying to be logical with someone who claims:

Steve Yzerman is overrated

Brad Stuart is a loser

If BB is fired, he'll be the Toronto head coach by training camp (as if Toronto will fire the guy who has that team playing better than it has in many years, and who almost got Toronto into the SCP this year)

People started booing AO because they just hate him, it had nothing to do with the Briere hit

Outclassing has nothing to do with dominating the forecheck (my personal fav... as if I was the one who coined the term "own the corners, own the rink")



Of course, you're right... but why kill a fly with a sledgehammer?

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05-12-2011, 12:31 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Bruce has coached in a patty cake division. Sure carolina won a cup. Our division games were blah before Tampa came around. ZZZ. Hardly prepping us for playoff games.
I agree to a point but simply making the playoffs now says a whole lot more than it did during Bryan Murray's years in charge. I mean back then the Devils and Pens were always pretty bad so the Caps were pretty much guaranteed to make the playoffs every year. And then when the Pens and Devils got good the Isles and Flyers went in the tank so Terry Murray's teams were pretty much guaranteed to make the playoffs also.

What is more impressive making the playoffs every year and flaming out fairly early now or then? IMO it is doing is now.

Schoenfeld was the first coach who didn't just have to worry about being one of the best 4 teams in his division when 2 of the teams were always awful.

Maybe that is why the finals team was able to claw their way to the finals? They were in a tough division, the last year before the SE came into existence, and they were competing conference wide for a playoff spot.

I don't know...

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05-12-2011, 01:52 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
If it's so ludicrous, come up with a counter-argument. Who are the two most successful coaches in the history of the Caps' franchise?
There have been no successful coaches in Caps history, as I define success. Winning the Cup is what matters. Close and almost is for losers.

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05-12-2011, 01:53 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
This puts me in mind of a press conference that former Detroit Lion's head coach Wayne Fontes once gave, where he declared himself "one of the all-time greatest Lion coaches."

The reporters were shaking their heads... one of "all-time greats"?????

Fontes went on to explain that the number of wins he'd achieved ranked him right at the top of Lion head coaches.

Of course, Ol'Wayne left one little tidbit out: he also held (and still holds) the all-time record for losses as a Detroit Lion's head coach.



Look guy,

You're trying to be logical with someone who claims:

Steve Yzerman is overrated

Brad Stuart is a loser

If BB is fired, he'll be the Toronto head coach by training camp (as if Toronto will fire the guy who has that team playing better than it has in many years, and who almost got Toronto into the SCP this year)

People started booing AO because they just hate him, it had nothing to do with the Briere hit

Outclassing has nothing to do with dominating the forecheck (my personal fav... as if I was the one who coined the term "own the corners, own the rink")



Of course, you're right... but why kill a fly with a sledgehammer?
Got it.

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Old
05-12-2011, 02:11 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
The Caps have as much talent in the system, top to bottom, as anyone in the entire league. It's just not all ready yet. In 4-5 years, this team could look like this, and still be too young:

Ovie-Backstrom-???
Semin-Gustafsson-Laich
???-???-Osala
Gordon-Steckel-????

Alzner-Green
???-Carlson
Finley-????

Varlamov
Neuvirth

With countless prospects or current players who we drafted filling in the possible question marks, to say nothing of possible free agents or trades. All but Laich (edit: and Steckel) that I typed out was drafted. GMGM deserves a lot of credit, it hasn't been all Ovie. Backstrom. Semin. Alzner. Green. He's done a good job the last few years. Patience. It's gonna be a hell of team. Just not yet.
What a difference two years makes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpj0122 View Post
There have been no successful coaches in Caps history, as I define success. Winning the Cup is what matters. Close and almost is for losers.
"Most successful" isn't a binary term. There has to be a most successful coach, regardless of whether or not you define success as a Cup or not.

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05-12-2011, 03:35 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
What a difference two years makes.



"Most successful" isn't a binary term. There has to be a most successful coach, regardless of whether or not you define success as a Cup or not.
No. I define success as winning the Stanley Cup. Since they haven't won a Stanley Cup, there hasn't been a most successful coach. If you want to argue who are the "best" coaches they have had, that is a different story.

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05-12-2011, 05:16 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by dpj0122 View Post
No. I define success as winning the Stanley Cup. Since they haven't won a Stanley Cup, there hasn't been a most successful coach. If you want to argue who are the "best" coaches they have had, that is a different story.

I think the word "most" is the word you really need to learn about. "Most successful" != "successful."

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05-12-2011, 09:57 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Funny thing about Bryan Murray: look at his playoff record with the Caps. It's remarkably like Boudreau's. He alternated losing in the first and second round.
I would probably rank Murray as the best coach myself...



IMO...there's a clear distinction between Murray and BB....Murray coached a successful disciplined hard nosed defensive style on a shoestring budget from Polin, but he never quite had the offensive talent to put the Caps over the top...rarely however did they get embarassed.

Bruce has the Caps most talented roster of all time and an owner spending as much as is allowed, and seemingly has a much more relaxed operation where they've not lived up to their billing...

Unfortunately one comes off as overachieving, one under...


Last edited by CapitalsCupFantasy: 05-13-2011 at 02:43 PM.
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05-13-2011, 09:46 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post

I think the word "most" is the word you really need to learn about. "Most successful" != "successful."
Wrong. There is no "most successful" because they haven't won any cups. If they win a cup. The coach at that time will be most successful. In fact, he will be the only successful coach they have had.

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05-13-2011, 11:00 AM
  #242
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I'm curious at to why GMGM hasn't announced the return of BB yet. I mean he did say he expected him to be back and Ted already said it's up to GMGM so why hold off on a more official announcement? Personally I'm hoping that he's waiting to see if anyone better becomes available. Maybe an assistant from Vancouver/San Jose/Boston/Tampa, Dale Hunter, etc.

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05-13-2012, 07:15 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by dpj0122 View Post
Wrong. There is no "most successful" because they haven't won any cups. If they win a cup. The coach at that time will be most successful. In fact, he will be the only successful coach they have had.





Purgatory. We are in it.





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05-13-2012, 01:40 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Here let me break the cycle ignoring the ignore button.

Who are the two best coaches, is a better question. Give a Murray Ovi. Wilson, Schoenfeld, and then we can compare success stories. Ovi is an all world difference maker.

The only won that fumbled that one away was Hanlon. Bruce is on his way to fumbling it away too. He should consider himself lucky to have a job.

I think Bryan Murray may be the best Caps coach of all time. I loved his tactical adjustments in the playoffs, something that Bruce could use a lesson on.

I wonder how the players feel about Bruce being retained. Sure, Brooks PR guy Laich pins the loss on himself, but doubt they all do away from a twit account. They were too young and too passive to make a real run this year. Bruce looked like a playoff noob. What did he do in these playoffs that you liked? Benched Fehr? Rode Neuvy?

It all comes back to George and how he has constructed the team. I would think the bar was not set to win a cup this year, but then the deadline deals he repeatedly does, tells me the cup his goal every year.
Unfortunately, he didn't have goaltending.

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05-13-2012, 02:30 PM
  #245
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Unfortunately, he didn't have goaltending.

True, true. Also thin at C. But our goalies were weak back then.

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03-29-2013, 10:00 AM
  #246
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Originally Posted by kicksavedave View Post
I've been pretty much anti GMGM for quite a while, and while this teams still hasn't reached its potential, one thing to me has not changes since the days of Dmitri Mironov and Krystich, and then Jagr, etc... GMGM does not truly appear to understand how to build a team that is designed to win in the Stanley Cup Playoffs....

The playoffs are a war totally unlike the regular season. The effort and sacrifice requirements are exponentially higher to not just squeak by one series vs an inferior opponent, but to WIN A CUP!!!

You will never win a Cup with guys like Kozlov on your top line, or guys like Fleishman on the 2nd line, because those guys don't demonstrate the pure, passionate desire to win every battle, to take a beating and keep coming back, to fight through checks and pain and even injury. You probably won't win a Cup with someone like Green who, even when healthy, shows a disdain for clearing the crease when needed (in the playoffs that's all game long).

So while GMGM has hit on a few nice draft picks in the first round recently and they make up the core of a great regular season roster, his 2nd rounds and beyond are an abject failure. In total, his isn't a Cup winning approach to roster building IMHO.... and his overall roster makeup is not, IMHO, going to win a Cup. Too many skilled finesse guys who won't pay the price. To win a Cup, you need 20 guys willing to pay the price. We have about 6, maybe 8 guys willing to pay the price and every year we will run into some team with 15 guys, or 20 guys, and they will simply grind us down.

After all was finished tonight, both game 7 game winning goals were scored by crashing the net hard. We simply don't do that very much, and that's because GMGM hasn't put a premium on getting players who will do that. 3 or 4 guys isn't enough.

GMGM has taken us about as far as he is going to. We've seen how this movie ends... nothing to me suggests this one will be any different.

kicksavedave,

You had it nailed in 2009, sir. I'm impressed.

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03-29-2013, 12:18 PM
  #247
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kicksavedave,

You had it nailed in 2009, sir. I'm impressed.
How depressing....fans have been aware of Mcphee's failure to build a solid team for 2 years, and here we are 2 years later in the same boat......we get a generational talent through dumb luck and he's wasting it.

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03-29-2013, 12:21 PM
  #248
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How depressing....fans have been aware of Mcphee's failure to build a solid team for 2 years, and here we are 2 years later in the same boat......we get a generational talent through dumb luck and he's wasting it.
If only it were just two.

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03-29-2013, 12:38 PM
  #249
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If only it were just two.
So true.....I hate advocating tanking but missing the playoffs(playoff money) might be the only thing that gets McPhee fired

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03-29-2013, 12:49 PM
  #250
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Can't believe I didn't post in this thread. I was likely just spent.

Only concern with firing gmgm is another new coach and what it does to players. But wouldn't prohibit it. I think Ted gives him and Oates one full camp/season.

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