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Scott Hartnell is good in front of the net

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Old
05-12-2011, 12:43 PM
  #51
Beef Invictus
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Has Kesler been injured for any playoff runs?

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05-12-2011, 01:03 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by hof2120 View Post
14 points in 25 games isn't stellar but it's not absolutely pitiful. It's about the same career playoff PPG ratio that Carts has right now.
Not so much you, but others, have commented on how bad Carter has played in the playoffs... on two broken feet, a separated shoulder, and a sprained knee.

I think Kesler is a terrific player, but he seems to have gotten a huge amount of praise for one good playoff round. If he carries it through the rest of this year, some of the praise will be earned. If he continues it on through next year's playoffs, then I think he can be called a strong playoff performer.

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05-12-2011, 01:05 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Has Kesler been injured for any playoff runs?
I think he had a shoulder issue (could be wrong on the injury) during one playoffs.

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05-12-2011, 01:36 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Not so much you, but others, have commented on how bad Carter has played in the playoffs... on two broken feet, a separated shoulder, and a sprained knee.

I think Kesler is a terrific player, but he seems to have gotten a huge amount of praise for one good playoff round. If he carries it through the rest of this year, some of the praise will be earned. If he continues it on through next year's playoffs, then I think he can be called a strong playoff performer.
As I'm sure you know, I'm not a huge Carter fan. I dislike his performance in playoffs. And while I can understand that a lot of it has to do with injury problems, can we agree that if his injuries are significant enough to hinder is performance that much, that he shouldn't be on the ice?

I'm all for players playing with heart and playing through injuries, as long as they can still contribute. There's a difference between being tough and battling through injuries and doing what Carter does.

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05-12-2011, 01:39 PM
  #55
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Yet if Carter didn't play through injuries, people here would roast him alive for him.

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05-12-2011, 01:45 PM
  #56
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As I'm sure you know, I'm not a huge Carter fan. I dislike his performance in playoffs. And while I can understand that a lot of it has to do with injury problems, can we agree that if his injuries are significant enough to hinder is performance that much, that he shouldn't be on the ice?

I'm all for players playing with heart and playing through injuries, as long as they can still contribute. There's a difference between being tough and battling through injuries and doing what Carter does.
I do agree that there is a point where an injured player isn't helping his team by playing. But with the laundry list of injuries and post season surgeries this year, the Flyers wouldn't have been able to ice a team had all of the injured players sat out.

Richards, Hartnell, and Versteeg were all ripped at one point or another for not giving it everything they had in the playoffs (Richards moreso, or at least that's my impression). Had they sat out, this team could have gone out in 4 to the Sabres.

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05-12-2011, 01:50 PM
  #57
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I roasted Versteeg pretty hard. Maybe not here, but definitely in the real world. Now I feel sorta bad about it.

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05-12-2011, 03:29 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Yet if Carter didn't play through injuries, people here would roast him alive for him.
That's a good point, I know there would be some roasting in that situation. But honestly, if he is at the point where his injury affects his play that much, I'd respect him more for realizing that he's not helping the team and sitting out than continuing to play and hurt the team.

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05-14-2011, 03:04 PM
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i think given the right circumstances carter could EASILY have a breakout playoffs...


however, i'd take kesler > carter for our team 8 days of the week!

kesler-richards would be a devastating line.

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05-14-2011, 03:33 PM
  #60
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He doesn't make too much. Go look up what other players with a similar game make -- David Backes, Brenden Morrow, Corey Perry, Shane Doan, Ryane Clowe (the only one making less than 4MM). Big, physical wingers you can pretty much bank on to score 20+ goals a year. And you can question how effective he is night in, night out, but I don't think you can ever really question if he feels like playing on a given night. He's always trying.

It's not his fault they expected him to just fill the void made by Knuble. If anyone's, it's the FO's. It's very arguable they shouldn't have let Knuble go in the first place, and they should've acknowledged those types of players don't often come into their own right away. Hell, Knuble didn't do much til he was 31. Hartnell's just 29.
Backes was scoring 30 goals (2 of last 3 years) while making just 2.5, and could possibly be a 40-goal scorer given some better players around him. Morrow also similar, but with Perry included, you're talking about guys with more than one 30-goal season, Perry having just scored 50 (and is clearly on a different level than all of these guys). Perry and Backes also kill some penalties, and at least Backes is only going to be the 2nd highest paid player on his team (although it's not a very good team). Hartnell has only done so once, and generally is an enigma.

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05-14-2011, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by go david krejci 430 View Post
Backes was scoring 30 goals (2 of last 3 years) while making just 2.5, and could possibly be a 40-goal scorer given some better players around him. Morrow also similar, but with Perry included, you're talking about guys with more than one 30-goal season, Perry having just scored 50 (and is clearly on a different level than all of these guys). Perry and Backes also kill some penalties, and at least Backes is only going to be the 2nd highest paid player on his team (although it's not a very good team). Hartnell has only done so once, and generally is an enigma.
could you IMAGINE:

JvR roo Backes

(them is some big fast wingers...)

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05-15-2011, 01:51 AM
  #62
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How did this turn into a Kesler vs Carter/Richards thread?

As for Hartnell, he goes to the net, that is for sure, and he stands in and takes a beating. He's not as good there as Holmstrom or Knuble or Smyth, he's making the effort though.

My main gripe with him is too many ill-timed minor penalties, cheap stuff that doesn't accomplish anything.

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05-15-2011, 08:15 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by go david krejci 430 View Post
Backes was scoring 30 goals (2 of last 3 years) while making just 2.5, and could possibly be a 40-goal scorer given some better players around him. Morrow also similar, but with Perry included, you're talking about guys with more than one 30-goal season, Perry having just scored 50 (and is clearly on a different level than all of these guys). Perry and Backes also kill some penalties, and at least Backes is only going to be the 2nd highest paid player on his team (although it's not a very good team). Hartnell has only done so once, and generally is an enigma.
Backes also signed an extension prior to hitting 30 goals for the second time for 4.5/year. His two 30 goal seasons saw him post a shot percentage more than 4% higher than his other three seasons. For him to hit 40 (unlikely), he'd have to shoot the puck about 65 more times. That's a considerable jump. Being the second highest paid player on his team is irrelevant to Hartnell -- besides, you don't think the Blues would love to have someone worth paying more? It just hasn't happened for them yet.

This season was only Morrow's second 30 goal campaign, in his age 31-32 season (which makes Hartnell being 29 for next year worth reiterating). Prior to this season, Perry had only one 30 goal season. Despite hitting 50 this year, it's likely more anomalous than anything. He shot nearly 5% over his career number -- which, mind you, includes his 17.2% rate this year -- and also shot the puck more than ever. He's probably the best of the three, and his current rate is still unsustainable. Even if he ends up continually posting better offensive numbers than these guys, it makes sense because he's also the highest paid.

It's not Hartnell's fault he doesn't kill penalties. That's a bonus with the other guys. Besides, Jeff Carter can kill penalties and barely sees any ice on the PK...you really think Hartnell would get minutes over him in that role on this team? He's not an enigma so much as he is particularly streaky -- like a lot of players in the NHL. I don't know about Perry outside of this year, or Morrow (but if I remember right, he was pretty streaky this year). But Backes is every bit as streaky as Hartnell. And the guy always busts his ass, every game. You can argue how effective he is on a nightly basis all you want, but he's always trying. There's way more sensible areas of this team to rag on than Hartnell.


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Old
05-15-2011, 09:56 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by hof2120 View Post
That's a good point, I know there would be some roasting in that situation. But honestly, if he is at the point where his injury affects his play that much, I'd respect him more for realizing that he's not helping the team and sitting out than continuing to play and hurt the team.
Last year we had a choice of Carter coming back to replace Carcillo. Carter on half a foot is better than Carcillo who was busy faking injuries during plays and losing his temper, causing the team to be penalized. He also was playing injured and had post season surgery. So, yeah, there are many instances where a good player coming back at 60% is better than an existing player.

As for Kesler, I like the way he plays and it's been a break out year for him. He said the Canucks sat him down and showed him how other players react when they get hit, and Richards was one of those players they showed him. He got smart and it's paid off big time. He is playing like Richards was in last year's playoffs. I don't feel the need to compare the two of them because they're very similar.

Regarding us needing a Knuble-type player, I appreciate what he brings on the PP but let's not forget how many times he took a penalty on the PP in the offensive zone. There's a reason everyone says "Knubled" when a player does that. Sure, he was good at cleaning up the garbage but he ended up killing the PP quite a bit, too.

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