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05-13-2011, 10:01 AM
  #76
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I'd rather have Vokoun than Bryzgalov, I think he is the better goalie and that he will have a lower cap hit. Bryzgalov is getting a little bit too much flak for the Detroit series however. While he certainly didn't play anywhere near good enough to make a difference there that was some of the worst team defense seen in the NHL for a long, long time. Yandle was terrible as well (even if he was racking up the points offensively).

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05-13-2011, 10:41 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Coyotes fan here, coming in peace.


Yes the Coyotes look to potentially be staying at least one more year. That said, without a solid, long-term owner in place before July 1st, Bryzgalov will walk. The NHL isn't going to give Maloney the green light to give Bryzgalov the five or six year, five or six million per year contract he deserves. He deserves every penny, by the way. He's one the of the league's elite goalies.

I hate to say it, but if I had to guess, I'd say he walks. This ownership mess is not going to clear itself up in the next six weeks. He wants term and money. We don't have it. So long, Bryz, you were our MVP.
What is the Coyotes' situation? They remain one more year as a lame duck franchise? If the NHL wants PHX to remain, they ought to let them keep Bryz.

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05-13-2011, 11:42 AM
  #78
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[QUOTE][QUOTE=CanadianFlyer88;33017775]

Quote:
A 0.03 difference is what you use to prove that Bryz is a better goaltender? The teams they've played on probably has nothing to do with those career numbers, either.../QUOTE]
Or their conferences right? Because we all know the eastern conference teams that Vokoun faces are far superior to the teams out west that Bryz faces.

You should check out Vokoun's GAA when he was out west and played for the Preds. In 8 seasons there it averages out to 2.58.

Quote:
But, wait! Vokoun career save percentage, 0.917; Bryzgalov career save percentage, 0.916. Clearly Vokoun has the edge!
Again look at the conferences they play in. It has a much bigger impact than the teams they play for.


Quote:
Brian Boucher also has the record for most consecutive regular season shutouts. Might as well bring that guy back as the starter next year. When Bryz hoisted that Cup, that was the most effort he exerted that day; he played well when called upon that playoff season, but I think you can remember that Michael Leighton had a pretty good string of games in last year's playoffs.
Is Brian Boucher in his prime right now? Is Leighton anywhere near as talented? You're making about as much sense as a fish on a bicycle. I love talking to geniuses like you.

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If I want to win the Cup next season, given the choices available, I'm taking Vokoun every time. He may be looking for a contract that's either too long or too expensive to make it work with the Flyers, but that doesn't change the fact that he's the best free agent goaltender available in the summer of 2011.
Yes because a 35 year old looking for a big final payday that might be too long or expensive should always be relied upon when you have an in his prime goalie who's better as an alternative.

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05-13-2011, 11:45 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post


A 0.03 difference is what you use to prove that Bryz is a better goaltender? The teams they've played on probably has nothing to do with those career numbers, either...

But, wait! Vokoun career save percentage, 0.917; Bryzgalov career save percentage, 0.916. Clearly Vokoun has the edge!
You should remove your sarcasm smiley from the career sv% line. Vokoun has been by far a better goalie so far throughout their careers. The only upside of Bryz over Vokoun at this point is age. Vokoun has been a top 5 goalie for the past 5 years, Bryz hasn't been.

Also GAA is more of a team stat than a goalie stat. Sv% is the most widely accepted goalie indicator.

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05-13-2011, 12:06 PM
  #80
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There's little reason to believe that Vokoun's performance is going to decline significantly over the next two to three years. If he were to begin a noticeable decline, you would expect to have seen some precursory evidence during this past season. On the contrary, he had one of the best seasons of his career and was once again one of the top goalies in the NHL.

This is 2011, and we aren't talking about an NFL player. With advancements in training, nutrition and sports medicine, your 35th birthday doesn't have to be the death knell for your career anymore. For some anecdotal evidence, just take a look at the Eastern Conference Finals. Two of the better goaltenders in the NHL, Thomas and Roloson, are going strong at age 37 and 41 respectively.

The Flyers don't need Vokoun to be a franchise goalie for the next ten years, they simply need him to be good for the next few years while their window is open. After that, Bobrovsky is the goalie of the future.

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05-13-2011, 12:18 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
There's little reason to believe that Vokoun's performance is going to decline significantly over the next two to three years. If he were to begin a noticeable decline, you would expect to have seen some precursory evidence during this past season. On the contrary, he had one of the best seasons of his career and was once again one of the top goalies in the NHL.

This is 2011, and we aren't talking about an NFL player. With advancements in training, nutrition and sports medicine, your 35th birthday doesn't have to be the death knell for your career anymore. For some anecdotal evidence, just take a look at the Eastern Conference Finals. Two of the better goaltenders in the NHL, Thomas and Roloson, are going strong at age 37 and 41 respectively.

The Flyers don't need Vokoun to be a franchise goalie for the next ten years, they simply need him to be good for the next few years while their window is open. After that, Bobrovsky is the goalie of the future.


If you are going to invest the money you do it with a guy who has more upside years than the possibility for a drop in play. Bryzgalov is entering the prime of goaltenders, to not spend the money is just continuing to address the issue.

And listen folks, Bobrovsky is a nice goalie, but there is no guarantee that he is going to be a legit #1 goalie for the future. It is nice they may have found a good, young goalie, but they need to bring him along slowly and take advantage of the two year window that this team has with Pronger and Timonen.

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05-13-2011, 12:22 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
There's little reason to believe that Vokoun's performance is going to decline significantly over the next two to three years. If he were to begin a noticeable decline, you would expect to have seen some precursory evidence during this past season. On the contrary, he had one of the best seasons of his career and was once again one of the top goalies in the NHL.

This is 2011, and we aren't talking about an NFL player. With advancements in training, nutrition and sports medicine, your 35th birthday doesn't have to be the death knell for your career anymore. For some anecdotal evidence, just take a look at the Eastern Conference Finals. Two of the better goaltenders in the NHL, Thomas and Roloson, are going strong at age 37 and 41 respectively.

The Flyers don't need Vokoun to be a franchise goalie for the next ten years, they simply need him to be good for the next few years while their window is open. After that, Bobrovsky is the goalie of the future.

Wow. Lots of things wrong with this post.

First, let me start by saying this....

It's never a good idea to be making huge assumptions.

The fact that Vokoun is 35 alone should be a warning. This is likely to be his last big contract.

What was, then, his motivation for his great play last season?

Was it because he wants to win and be the best he can be? Or was it because he knew he was in a contract year and is looking for one last major deal?

The fact that we don't and will never have the answer to these questions alone is enough of a warning to me that would cause a lot of concern if I'm the Flyers looking at him.

Secondly, we're looking at Bob as the goalie of the future NOW.

That could change.

Suppose this year was a total fluke for him?

Suppose he can't stop a beach ball next year?

At that point, if we have Vokoun, we're now in a situation where we have an older goalie whose on the downside of his career and a backup that resembles a human sieve.

Not a good place to be.

With Bryz, we would have insurance against both of those situations.

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05-13-2011, 12:42 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
What was, then, his motivation for his great play last season?

Was it because he wants to win and be the best he can be? Or was it because he knew he was in a contract year and is looking for one last major deal?

The fact that we don't and will never have the answer to these questions alone is enough of a warning to me that would cause a lot of concern if I'm the Flyers looking at him.
Vokoun has been very consistent. He didn't just all of a sudden play better because it was a contract year. Your case about Bryz being the better option would be considerable stronger if you didn't use weak reasoning like picking GAA or saying that Vokoun played well because it was a contract year or that Bryz is a starting Stanley Cup champion goalie.

The facts support that Bryz is the better option but you keep picking the totally wrong reasons for making your case.

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05-13-2011, 12:45 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Vokoun has been very consistent. He didn't just all of a sudden play better because it was a contract year. Your case about Bryz being the better option would be considerable stronger if you didn't use weak reasoning like picking GAA or saying that Vokoun played well because it was a contract year or that Bryz is a starting Stanley Cup champion goalie.

The facts support that Bryz is the better option but you keep picking the totally wrong reasons for making your case.
I cited Age, Career GAA, conferences they play in, and the fact that Bryz has his name on the Cup.

To me, those aren't bad reasons.

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05-13-2011, 01:02 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
Wow. Lots of things wrong with this post.

First, let me start by saying this....

It's never a good idea to be making huge assumptions.


Thanks for clueing me in. Would you recommend that I ignore your post since it's chock-full of assumptions?

Your entire post is based on the assumption that I think Vokoun is a better option than Bryzgalov. I don't. I was simply arguing that signing Vokoun would represent a massive upgrade in goal for the next few seasons and doesn't represent the risk that some are claiming.

Given an equal opportunity to sign Bryzgalov or Vokoun, you take Bryzgalov. Given the choice between signing Vokoun and starting next year with Boucher and Bobrovsky, you sign Vokoun. No-brainer.

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05-13-2011, 01:11 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post


Thanks for clueing me in. Would you recommend that I ignore your post since it's chock-full of assumptions?

Your entire post is based on the assumption that I think Vokoun is a better option than Bryzgalov. I don't. I was simply arguing that signing Vokoun would represent a massive upgrade in goal for the next few seasons and doesn't represent the risk that some are claiming.

Given an equal opportunity to sign Bryzgalov or Vokoun, you take Bryzgalov. Given the choice between signing Vokoun and starting next year with Boucher and Bobrovsky, you sign Vokoun. No-brainer.
You stated that Vokoun doesn't need to be a franchise goalie only good.

Bob and Boosh were good this year (aside from the playoffs). Is that what we needed from them?

I didn't make huge assumptions like you did.

You stated that Bob was our goalie of the future as if it were fact written in stone.

But thanks for clearing up your position.

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05-13-2011, 01:19 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
You stated that Vokoun doesn't need to be a franchise goalie only good.

Bob and Boosh were good this year (aside from the playoffs). Is that what we needed from them?

I didn't make huge assumptions like you did.

You stated that Bob was our goalie of the future as if it were fact written in stone.

But thanks for clearing up your position.
Your whole argument is "What if", if not assumptious , damned hypothetical. Get off your horse.

I'd prefer Vokoun myself as well, he's likely going to be a lot cheaper. He plays for a **** team and has consistently put up good numbers. What if his wheels suddenly fall off due to age suddenly catching up to him?

What if we used logic instead of paper tigers?

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05-13-2011, 01:22 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
Your whole argument is "What if", if not assumptious , damned hypothetical. Get off your horse.

I'd prefer Vokoun myself as well, he's likely going to be a lot cheaper. He plays for a **** team and has consistently put up good numbers. What if his wheels suddenly fall off due to age suddenly catching up to him?

What if we used logic instead of paper tigers?
What's a paper tiger? He's 35 and if he gets a two year deal from us he'll be 37.

I don't want old.

I want prime.

You get that with Bryz not Vokoun.

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05-13-2011, 01:27 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
What's a paper tiger? He's 35 and if he gets a two year deal from us he'll be 37.

I don't want old.

I want prime.

You get that with Bryz not Vokoun.
Thanks I appreciate the breakdown there, almost had to get out the o'l abacus. The reiteration really drove your point home.

There are apparently people on the forum who want the ancient old men of 35 who just put up good numbers. What happens at 37 though im curious, is that when goalies suddenly combust?

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05-13-2011, 01:29 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
You stated that Vokoun doesn't need to be a franchise goalie only good...
When I said that the Flyers don't need Vokoun to be a "franchise goalie," I meant that they don't require him to be a long-term solution, thus the argument against his age holds little water. I thought I made that clear in my original post, but perhaps not...
Quote:
I didn't make huge assumptions like you did.
Please. Everything you posted was an assumption or a hypothetical. Literally every single sentence in your post contained at least one of the two.
Quote:
You stated that Bob was our goalie of the future as if it were fact written in stone.
As of now, it is. The Flyers view him as their goalie of the future. Calling him the "goalie of the future" isn't a personal guarantee that he's going to be amazing, it just means that at some point in the near future he is going to be given the reigns as the franchise's number one.

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05-13-2011, 01:29 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
Thanks I appreciate the breakdown there, almost had to get out the o'l abacus. The reiteration really drove your point home.

There are apparently people on the forum who want the ancient old men of 35 who just put up good numbers. What happens at 37 though im curious, is that when goalies suddenly combust?
Someone tell Roloson and Thomas that they aren't allowed to be good anymore. Shotscore said so.

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05-13-2011, 01:34 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
Thanks I appreciate the breakdown there, almost had to get out the o'l abacus. The reiteration really drove your point home.

There are apparently people on the forum who want the ancient old men of 35 who just put up good numbers. What happens at 37 though im curious, is that when goalies suddenly combust?
Yeah. Tim Thomas style.

B comes way before V in the alphabet guys. I think this case is closed.

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05-13-2011, 01:36 PM
  #93
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Yeah. Tim Thomas style.

B comes way before V in the alphabet guys. I think this case is closed.
Clearly better, yes. Craig Anderson's contract is making more sense now.

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05-13-2011, 01:40 PM
  #94
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Now I understand why Colorado hyped David Aebischer so much...

Man, he sure Daigle'd them.

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05-13-2011, 01:43 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
Please. Everything you posted was an assumption or a hypothetical. Literally every single sentence in your post contained at least one of the two.
What else is new with ShotScore arguments?

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05-13-2011, 02:04 PM
  #96
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I'd take Bryzgalov if we can make a move somewhere along the lines of this:

Bryzgalov's rights, Pyatt, 2nd for Hartnell

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05-13-2011, 02:27 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
Or their conferences right? Because we all know the eastern conference teams that Vokoun faces are far superior to the teams out west that Bryz faces.

You should check out Vokoun's GAA when he was out west and played for the Preds. In 8 seasons there it averages out to 2.58.
Well, pack it up! You win. Vokoun's GAA was an incredible 0.02 goals per game above his career average when he played for Nashville. What a loser he turned out to be!

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Again look at the conferences they play in. It has a much bigger impact than the teams they play for.
Prove it.

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Is Brian Boucher in his prime right now? Is Leighton anywhere near as talented? You're making about as much sense as a fish on a bicycle. I love talking to geniuses like you.


Stop, you're making me blush with your kind words!

You based at least some of your reasoning on small sample sizes (Bryzgalov's shutout streak in the playoffs, Bryzgalov's performance in the 2007 playoffs). I showed you how using small sample sizes to judge a goaltender's performance is foolish.

Quote:
Yes because a 35 year old looking for a big final payday that might be too long or expensive should always be relied upon when you have an in his prime goalie who's better as an alternative.
Apparently you don't pay attention to hockey contracts in the post-lockout era. Players in the twilight of their careers don't land big paydays in their final contracts.

My concern wth going after Vokoun is offering him a 4-year contract (or longer); he'd be good on a 2-3 year contract. I'm also concerned he'll look for over $5M/season and price himself out of Philadelphia... same goes with Bryz.

Hell, I even like Bryzgalov; he's just not the 'best' goaltender available. He might be the best fit but, as I said before, I'd take Vokoun every time if can make it work in Philly.

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05-13-2011, 02:37 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Well, pack it up! You win. Vokoun's GAA was an incredible 0.02 goals per game above his career average when he played for Nashville. What a loser he turned out to be!



Prove it.





Stop, you're making me blush with your kind words!

You based at least some of your reasoning on small sample sizes (Bryzgalov's shutout streak in the playoffs, Bryzgalov's performance in the 2007 playoffs). I showed you how using small sample sizes to judge a goaltender's performance is foolish.



Apparently you don't pay attention to hockey contracts in the post-lockout era. Players in the twilight of their careers don't land big paydays in their final contracts.

My concern wth going after Vokoun is offering him a 4-year contract (or longer); he'd be good on a 2-3 year contract. I'm also concerned he'll look for over $5M/season and price himself out of Philadelphia... same goes with Bryz.

Hell, I even like Bryzgalov; he's just not the 'best' goaltender available. He might be the best fit but, as I said before, I'd take Vokoun every time if can make it work in Philly.
Bryzgalov is worth the money and the contract terms every day of the week and twice on sunday. I would take Bryzgalov at 4yrs/$6.5mill over Vokoun 2yrs/$4mill merely because you are getting Bryzgalov in his prime, he ends up being the goaltender and you can bring Bobrovsky along slowly as they should right now.

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05-13-2011, 02:42 PM
  #99
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I'd take Bryzgalov if we can make a move somewhere along the lines of this:

Bryzgalov's rights, Pyatt, 2nd for Hartnell
Yeah, OK.

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05-13-2011, 02:51 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
When I said that the Flyers don't need Vokoun to be a "franchise goalie," I meant that they don't require him to be a long-term solution, thus the argument against his age holds little water. I thought I made that clear in my original post, but perhaps not...
This post is absurd. He can't be a long term solution even if he wanted to be. Who signs a 35 year old with an eye to the long term?


Quote:
Please. Everything you posted was an assumption or a hypothetical. Literally every single sentence in your post contained at least one of the two.
My hypotheticals were a response to your short-sightedness. As of now, we're lookinig at Bob as being our future. You never even brought up the fact, in any of your posts, the possibility that could change.


Quote:
As of now, it is. The Flyers view him as their goalie of the future. Calling him the "goalie of the future" isn't a personal guarantee that he's going to be amazing, it just means that at some point in the near future he is going to be given the reigns as the franchise's number one.

OK so as of now he's our future. Let's see how long that lasts with Eriksson waiting in the wings.

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