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05-13-2011, 03:52 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Bryzgalov is worth the money and the contract terms every day of the week and twice on sunday. I would take Bryzgalov at 4yrs/$6.5mill over Vokoun 2yrs/$4mill merely because you are getting Bryzgalov in his prime, he ends up being the goaltender and you can bring Bobrovsky along slowly as they should right now.
100% correct and pure common sense.

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05-13-2011, 03:56 PM
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05-13-2011, 03:59 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Bryzgalov is worth the money and the contract terms every day of the week and twice on sunday. I would take Bryzgalov at 4yrs/$6.5mill over Vokoun 2yrs/$4mill merely because you are getting Bryzgalov in his prime, he ends up being the goaltender and you can bring Bobrovsky along slowly as they should right now.
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100% correct and pure common sense.
I'm not making a move for Bryzgalov if he's looking for $6.5M/season. Where's the common sense in that?

I will take either guy around $4M, but the biggest reason Bryzgalov would likely look elsewhere is because he'll look for more money.

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05-13-2011, 04:02 PM
  #104
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05-13-2011, 04:06 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
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I'm not making a move for Bryzgalov if he's looking for $6.5M/season. Where's the common sense in that?
Umm...let's see.....because you get an elite goalie who's playing in the prime of his life plus the additional benefit of not having to worry about a horrible goaltending situation we currently find ourselves in? Is it overpayment? Maybe. But you can't tell me it's not worth it if we don't have to live through the past two postseasons again.

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I will take either guy around $4M, but the biggest reason Bryzgalov would likely look elsewhere is because he'll look for more money.

So you want him to take a pay cut?

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05-13-2011, 04:12 PM
  #106
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So you want him to take a pay cut?
Goalies have been on the short end of the stick post-lockout.

Bryzgalov made $4.5M this season and his cap hit was $4.25M. I'd be fine with that.

Vokoun will almost certainly have to take a pay cut, unless he hops across the pond. His cap hit was $5.7M and his 2010/11 salary was $6.3M.

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05-13-2011, 04:28 PM
  #107
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I'm not making a move for Bryzgalov if he's looking for $6.5M/season. Where's the common sense in that?
Do you really want an answer for this? Last time the Flyers had a legit #1 goalie going into the regular season, who was it? You have to pay at this point to get the goalie. The Flyers have consistently passed on a legit goalie, going with a backup plan. Going into the season the answer to the goalie question should not be..."well, we are going to let them compete for the starting job"........and the goalie needs to be a goalie who can be here for one than just a couple years. You are trying to argue this point like it is a strength when for the last 20 years in has been THE GLARING WEAKNESS in the organization.


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I will take either guy around $4M, but the biggest reason Bryzgalov would likely look elsewhere is because he'll look for more money.
So you want to go with the 35 y/o with more miles, instead of the goalie in his prime? So you want to try and cut the corner, get the bargain goalie because it "makes sense" financially????????? Flyers fans just do not get it.

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05-13-2011, 04:40 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Do you really want an answer for this? Last time the Flyers had a legit #1 goalie going into the regular season, who was it? You have to pay at this point to get the goalie. The Flyers have consistently passed on a legit goalie, going with a backup plan. Going into the season the answer to the goalie question should not be..."well, we are going to let them compete for the starting job"........and the goalie needs to be a goalie who can be here for one than just a couple years. You are trying to argue this point like it is a strength when for the last 20 years in has been THE GLARING WEAKNESS in the organization.

So you want to go with the 35 y/o with more miles, instead of the goalie in his prime? So you want to try and cut the corner, get the bargain goalie because it "makes sense" financially????????? Flyers fans just do not get it.
You don't seem to get it, actually.

A cap hit of $6.5M for a goalie doesn't make any sense in the current market. Other teams are winning Cups without tying up that much money between the pipes.

I'm not advocating cutting corners. The Flyers have had ample opportunity to pay ~$4M for an above average goaltender in recent years and have failed. Their ignoring or the need of strength at the goaltending position in the pre-lockout days in inexplicable.

In a cap world, you can only get burned by paying more than market value for a goaltender. A $6.5M cap hit for a goaltender of Bryzgalov's quality is too much, especially if cutting even $2M off that cap hit affords the team the luxury of not having to make any major moves to accomodate it.

If it comes down to a bidding war for Bryzgalov, the responsible choice is to let him go. The market favours the Flyers, so there's no need to overpay.

I also fail to see why anyone would think the Vokoun is suddenly over the hill. What's so special about being 35 that would make him unbearable to be this team's goalie for the next two or three years?

The bottom line is that, given the teams that will require a goalie this off-season, the Flyers should end up with either Vokoun or Bryzgalov. And they shouldn't have to pay an unreasonable sum to get either guy.

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05-13-2011, 05:10 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
You don't seem to get it, actually.

A cap hit of $6.5M for a goalie doesn't make any sense in the current market. Other teams are winning Cups without tying up that much money between the pipes.

I'm not advocating cutting corners. The Flyers have had ample opportunity to pay ~$4M for an above average goaltender in recent years and have failed. Their ignoring or the need of strength at the goaltending position in the pre-lockout days in inexplicable.

In a cap world, you can only get burned by paying more than market value for a goaltender. A $6.5M cap hit for a goaltender of Bryzgalov's quality is too much, especially if cutting even $2M off that cap hit affords the team the luxury of not having to make any major moves to accomodate it.

If it comes down to a bidding war for Bryzgalov, the responsible choice is to let him go. The market favours the Flyers, so there's no need to overpay.

I also fail to see why anyone would think the Vokoun is suddenly over the hill. What's so special about being 35 that would make him unbearable to be this team's goalie for the next two or three years?

The bottom line is that, given the teams that will require a goalie this off-season, the Flyers should end up with either Vokoun or Bryzgalov. And they shouldn't have to pay an unreasonable sum to get either guy.
i think theres a pretty big difference between vokoun and bryzgalov. one is great imo and the other is good. one can carry a team to the playoffs and the other cant. Your pretending like you know this is gonna come down to such and such money wise and none of us know whether he would make a concession based off the chance to win. that always factors in to a player who wants to win's decision. dont base your argument off an assumption.How do you know it isnt vokoun who'll want 6.5 million? I'm lookin at this objectively and as a flyers fan. This is the guy. There's plenty of better arguments to make about other underperforming overpaid players on our team. but this guy hasnt underperformed, and isnt on our team yet. I also think you'll be the first to sport his jersey when he signs here.

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05-13-2011, 05:15 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
You don't seem to get it, actually.

A cap hit of $6.5M for a goalie doesn't make any sense in the current market. Other teams are winning Cups without tying up that much money between the pipes.

I'm not advocating cutting corners. The Flyers have had ample opportunity to pay ~$4M for an above average goaltender in recent years and have failed. Their ignoring or the need of strength at the goaltending position in the pre-lockout days in inexplicable.

In a cap world, you can only get burned by paying more than market value for a goaltender. A $6.5M cap hit for a goaltender of Bryzgalov's quality is too much, especially if cutting even $2M off that cap hit affords the team the luxury of not having to make any major moves to accomodate it.

If it comes down to a bidding war for Bryzgalov, the responsible choice is to let him go. The market favours the Flyers, so there's no need to overpay.

I also fail to see why anyone would think the Vokoun is suddenly over the hill. What's so special about being 35 that would make him unbearable to be this team's goalie for the next two or three years?

The bottom line is that, given the teams that will require a goalie this off-season, the Flyers should end up with either Vokoun or Bryzgalov. And they shouldn't have to pay an unreasonable sum to get either guy.

6.5 mil is not unreasonable. Bryzgalov is elite. What are you willing to pay to have peace of mind with your goaltender? For me, it's almost priceless at this point.

Who the **** wants to go through the last two postseasons again?

Cutting corners does not work.

Chicago cut corners this year and let Niemi go. Kept their core players. What happened to them? Out in the first round.

Peace of mind with your goaltender >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cutting corners and being unstable.

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05-13-2011, 05:27 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by ShotScore
This post is absurd. He can't be a long term solution even if he wanted to be. Who signs a 35 year old with an eye to the long term?
It only seems absurd to you because you are fixated on his age, as if there is some fundamental law of science that says he will wither away into dust the moment he turns 37. This argument is especially bizarre when you consider that the combined age of the two goaltenders in the Eastern Conference Finals is nearly 80.

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05-13-2011, 05:41 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
It only seems absurd to you because you are fixated on his age, as if there is some fundamental law of science that says he will wither away into dust the moment he turns 37. This argument is especially bizarre when you consider that the combined age of the two goaltenders in the Eastern Conference Finals is nearly 80.

His age is absolutely an issue.

Where he's at, players don't get better they start to decline.

As your points for the goaltenders in the eastern finals.....

Boston is quite possibly the best team in the eastern conference in terms of team defense.

Tampa can't be far behind.

I think this has more than a little to do with that.

That's not to say Roloson and Thomas aren't and haven't been outstanding. They certainly are.

Thomas is probably going to win the Vezina.

That being said, I still believe had the Flyers had an elite goalie and been totally healthy, we would have beaten Boston and we would have beaten Tampa.

To add to this, these were the top ranked goalies in the regular season this year:

1) Luongo
2) Price
3) Ward
4) Kiprusoff
5) Howard
6) Lundquist
7) Fleury
8) Bryzgalov
9) Thomas
10) Quick

Taking Thomas out of the equation, the average age of the 9 best goalies is 28.1


Last edited by ShotScore*: 05-13-2011 at 05:49 PM.
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05-13-2011, 05:48 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
6.5 mil is not unreasonable. Bryzgalov is elite. What are you willing to pay to have peace of mind with your goaltender? For me, it's almost priceless at this point.

Who the **** wants to go through the last two postseasons again?

Cutting corners does not work.

Chicago cut corners this year and let Niemi go. Kept their core players. What happened to them? Out in the first round.

Peace of mind with your goaltender >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cutting corners and being unstable.
Only one goaltender in the NHL has a cap hit over $6.3M.

A $6.5M cap hit is too much for a goaltender. Paying less is not cutting corners; it's about recognizing market value and not paying too much out of desparation.

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05-13-2011, 05:50 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Only one goaltender in the NHL has a cap hit over $6.3M.

A $6.5M cap hit is too much for a goaltender. Paying less is not cutting corners; it's about recognizing market value and not paying too much out of desparation.

NEWS FLASH:

We are desperate.

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05-13-2011, 05:52 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
NEWS FLASH:

We are desperate.
Correct. And the Flyers shouldn't overpay simply because they are desperate.

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05-13-2011, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
To add to this, these were the top ranked goalies in the regular season this year:

1) Luongo
2) Price
3) Ward
4) Kiprusoff
5) Howard
6) Lundquist
7) Fleury
8) Bryzgalov
9) Thomas
10) Quick
Top goalies are ranked in order by wins now. Good to know.

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05-13-2011, 05:59 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Correct. And the Flyers shouldn't overpay simply because they are desperate.
E.g. like how the Habs got Gomez, and look how he turned out with a 7.3M cap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Top goalies are ranked in order by wins now. Good to know.
Also, Howard should be nowhere near the top 10. Hell, even Rinne is not on that list, so fail.

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05-13-2011, 06:03 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
E.g. like how the Habs got Gomez, and look how he turned out with a 7.3M cap.
It was the crazy Rangers that put their name to that contract. The Habs deserve criticism for alleviating New York of that burden.

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05-13-2011, 06:16 PM
  #119
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It was the crazy Rangers that put their name to that contract. The Habs deserve criticism for alleviating New York of that burden.
So both are stupid.

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05-13-2011, 06:16 PM
  #120
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Not a chance in hell i'd pay Bryzgalov 6.5mil. Lundqvist is IMO a better goalie by a pretty solid margin, he's getting paid around that amount, and look how that's going for the Rangers. Minus the hurt and inconsistent Gaborik, their best offensive player is Dubinsky.

2 years 3.8m-4m for Vokoun >>> 4 years 6.5m for Bryzgalov

I'd rather have Bryzgalov obvsiouly, but not at that expense.

Vokoun can get the job done for two years then you can assess where you are with Bobrovsky and Joacim Erikkson and whatnot.


Shotscore, that ranked goalies list is putrid.

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05-13-2011, 06:53 PM
  #121
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Sooo. People want to make Bryz the highest paid goalie in the league south of Lundqvist?

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05-13-2011, 07:03 PM
  #122
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Sooo. People want to make Bryz the highest paid goalie in the league south of Lundqvist?
But it's less than Cristobal Huet.

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05-13-2011, 07:54 PM
  #123
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Yeah, OK.
don't know what you're laughing at. that's a pretty good deal

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05-13-2011, 08:21 PM
  #124
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Sooo. People want to make Bryz the highest paid goalie in the league south of Lundqvist?
Unfortunately, one of those "people" is probably Bryzgalov's agent.

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05-13-2011, 08:37 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
His age is absolutely an issue.

To add to this, these were the top ranked goalies in the regular season this year:

1) Luongo
2) Price
3) Ward
4) Kiprusoff
5) Howard
6) Lundquist
7) Fleury
8) Bryzgalov
9) Thomas
10) Quick

Taking Thomas out of the equation, the average age of the 9 best goalies is 28.1
I like how you conveniently deleted the oldest goalie out of your equation when calculating "average age"


Lets take a look at age, average age of starters that made it to the CONFERENCE FINALS of the Stanley Cup Playoffs

Rolloson 41
Tim Thomas 37
Luongo 32
Niemi 27

Average 34.25

So if age is your magic factor in determining if you want a goalie and you want playoff success, your better off going with Vokoun who is 34.

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