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Old
05-10-2011, 12:58 PM
  #101
94now
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
my buddy at work makes a good point. Out of the final 5 right now how many Russians are there?

Daysyuk is the exception as he is the freaking man

Even the Flyers only had Bob and Z who did'nt do squat

It's not often Russians win the cup lately.

Grachev may become the typical Russian in that he may score in the NHL eventually but work ethic may be a factor. Honestly I have no clue as this is a stereo type but we should find out soon
Nope. Have to wait. Nothing will be soon. If people feel that watching prospects to develop is like watching grass grow, they are on the wrong message board.

You are right, the playoff hockey is a primitive form of the game. It has always been like that, but more so as of late. That is why the value of Stanley Cup may be diminishing due to mostly "Bottom 6 hockey". That will change. Soon. Since it hasn't yet and top 6 players are "canceled out" by most "systems", the bottom 6 are very important. Russia do not have sound representation in the NHL Bottom 6 group. Their grinders stay home because difference in pay between KHL and NHL the most pronounced at elite level and not that much at bottom 6 to kill oneself over it.

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05-11-2011, 11:07 AM
  #102
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Grachev

I fully expect c to remain with the Whale for all of next season as he seems miles away from competing for a roster spot. He has been all but invisible in every game that I have watched hm play. He does not score much (low goals and assist totals) and just seems to glide around the ice. This is his make or break year IMO. I would like to see us trade him while he still has some perceived value.

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05-11-2011, 11:50 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by 94rangers View Post
I fully expect c to remain with the Whale for all of next season as he seems miles away from competing for a roster spot. He has been all but invisible in every game that I have watched hm play. He does not score much (low goals and assist totals) and just seems to glide around the ice. This is his make or break year IMO. I would like to see us trade him while he still has some perceived value.
I would say that we expect Grachev to be a top 6 while we expect a guy like Hagelin to be a 3rd liner thus if its a competiton between the two I think Torts goes with Hagelin since he would be more defensively reliable and like Stepan and McD he dominated College recently.

I am on the fence about singnig Fedotenko. I think he did great for us but I rather see a kid in. The way I view LW is Dubinsky top obviously but then I keep Wolski and Avery for another year and mix in one of Hagelin in Grachev for the final spot.

I see why people say WW and Avery for a buy out but I think buy outs are a waste if they can fit under the cap and just expire the contracts next yr

Drury shoud be the only buy out cause they will need every penny that saves(3.5 mil or so) on a RFA or money towards Brad Richards

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05-11-2011, 01:16 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
Gaborik is the definition of a floater.

He doesn't excel with the puck on his stick.

He can't win battles in the corner.

He floats into the slot and waits for a pass. That's how he scores. And that's ok, as long as he puts in the effort on the defensive side of the puck.
You're saying this based on what?

The classic Gaborik goal is taking the breakout pass in the neutral zone, skating up the wing, then suddenly turning on the jets to blow by the defenceman and use his quick release to fire a simple wrist shot past the goalie.

As for Grachev, something that gives me hope about him not ending up an "enigmatic Russian" is how determined he was at a young age to play in North America. He's never seemed like Radulov, someone who's homesick and just wants to collect a paycheck before going back.

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05-12-2011, 01:56 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Gaborik was most definitely a floater this year.

Are we supposed to be impressed that a 10-year pro is saying he is going to come back in great shape? Does this mean that he regards this as a special effort on his part? Isn't that what he is supposed to do every year, or is a salary over 7 million not enough to guarantee full effort?
Considering he missed a big chunk of time with a shoulder injury that slowed him down to start his season, I'd say it's fair to say the benefits of any offseason work he did were likely lost over the missed time. Then he had to start over and work himself back into game shape.

The lack of talented linemates doesn't make him a floater. An average shift was him carrying the puck in the zone by himself with two other forwards that couldn't carry the puck (requiring him to), getting angled to the boards by a strong physical defenseman, battling for the puck with the defenseman, then a second defender would come over, he'd get outnumbered, puck taken away back goes the other team. Where was his help? Why can't someone else carry the puck? Why, if he dumps it in, can't someone else go chase it and be the grinder to set him up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
Gaborik is the definition of a floater.

He doesn't excel with the puck on his stick.
False. He excelled many times this season with the puck on his stick. He just doesn't excel with the puck on his stick by himself and with no help against good defensemen. He also doesn't excel with the puck on his stick against 2-3 defenders because the pass he's received did not spread the defense or open a cross ice seam to a teammate, and instead has left him on an island against the defense.

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Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
He can't win battles in the corner.
That's not his job. He's not a grinder. He's a finisher. Was Adam Graves a bad player because he couldn't make end to end rushes or score from 30+ feet out? Was Jeff Beukeboom overrated because he couldn't quarterback the power play? Was Gretzky terrible because he didn't hit people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
He floats into the slot and waits for a pass. That's how he scores. And that's ok, as long as he puts in the effort on the defensive side of the puck.
That's actually exactly what you're supposed to do when you don't have the puck. Graves did it. Bure did it. Heck, even Jagr (look at his 600th). Teemu Selanne is still doing it. The reason Teemu Selanne put up 80 points and Gaborik put up ~50 is Selanne had someone else to go in and grind it out and then get him the puck all year. Ducks had 2 legit PPQB quality defensemen getting him PPG's. Gaborik had Christensen with him much of the year, and the esteemed Michael Del Zotto, Mats Zuccarello, and Bryan McCabe spending the majority of the time as the primary PP point option this year.

That doesn't make him a floater.

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05-12-2011, 07:32 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Gaborik was most definitely a floater this year.

Are we supposed to be impressed that a 10-year pro is saying he is going to come back in great shape? Does this mean that he regards this as a special effort on his part? Isn't that what he is supposed to do every year, or is a salary over 7 million not enough to guarantee full effort?
There is no way Gaborik is saying that to "impress" the fans. What else is he supposed to say? I think you're reading WAY too much into that quote. What would you say after a disappointing season?

Back to Grachev, I think this year is big for him. If he keeps improving, I'll be happy, that is all I ask.

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05-12-2011, 09:34 AM
  #107
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I'm expecting that Grachev's numbers, with an influx of better talent, will increase this year.

I also expect that he will be alot more involved in the offence and will overall be a more impactful player.

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05-13-2011, 01:23 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
my buddy at work makes a good point. Out of the final 5 right now how many Russians are there?

Daysyuk is the exception as he is the freaking man

Even the Flyers only had Bob and Z who did'nt do squat

It's not often Russians win the cup lately.

Grachev may become the typical Russian in that he may score in the NHL eventually but work ethic may be a factor. Honestly I have no clue as this is a stereo type but we should find out soon
Russia is better then they been in a long time. Look at the Canada/Russia game in the WCH. Many of them are in the KHL though.

007- Rads took 6m tax free as opposed to 850k in NA. Can anyone blame him? I mean he wasn't a AO who would have been paid instantly after his ELC. Blame Bettman more then you blame Rads.

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05-13-2011, 01:33 PM
  #109
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Guys, you are forgetting the basic law of physics in the post lockout NHL.

Evg "Potemkin" Grachev is 6'5. Unless you are absolute freak of nature, you will not be able to skate up and down the ice with the best of the best 5'9-6'1 players. And these days that's 90% of the forwards. The game is mostly about skating.

Size is not a strength anymore.

Except when a player is put in a position in which he can play to his strength, as kind of a offensive role player. If Gra hangs in there AND if we take carenof him -- I have no doubt he will turn into something like a mix of a Modin/Fedetenko/Anisimov type.

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05-13-2011, 03:48 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
Gaborik is the definition of a floater.

He doesn't excel with the puck on his stick.

He can't win battles in the corner.

He floats into the slot and waits for a pass. That's how he scores. And that's ok, as long as he puts in the effort on the defensive side of the puck.
This is a completely incorrect statement. Maybe this year he floated around a little bit trying to play the style you identified above, which I believe was due to playing with an injury and his speed being off. Gabby, if you watched him two years ago and thorughout his career in Minnesota is a puck carrier, he is a reator, a guy, who will beat you 1 on 1, 1 on 2, 1 on friggin 5, with his speed and hands. Oh, and then he'll undress your goaltender too. He's not a floater, but that's what we saw from him a lot this season, and I think that was the problem with his game.

Either way, I believe 100% that Grachev is young and struggling to transform his game into that which will be successful at the Pro level. Whether that works or not is yet to be seen, but he has tons of size, speed and shooting skills. The coaches in Hartford are changing / have changed his game completely from juniors where he was able to dominate with size and skill. But please recall he only spent one year in juniors and only was there until age 18, where most players by that age have been with the same team and coach for three years. There is good reason for him to be behind in his development. If he can turn those skills into the NHL level game they are trying to teach him,, he very well could turn a corner and become a top-6 prospect in most people's minds real quickly once again.

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05-13-2011, 04:54 PM
  #111
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This is a completely incorrect statement. Maybe this year he floated around a little bit trying to play the style you identified above, which I believe was due to playing with an injury and his speed being off. Gabby, if you watched him two years ago and thorughout his career in Minnesota is a puck carrier, he is a reator, a guy, who will beat you 1 on 1, 1 on 2, 1 on friggin 5, with his speed and hands. Oh, and then he'll undress your goaltender too. He's not a floater, but that's what we saw from him a lot this season, and I think that was the problem with his game.

Either way, I believe 100% that Grachev is young and struggling to transform his game into that which will be successful at the Pro level. Whether that works or not is yet to be seen, but he has tons of size, speed and shooting skills. The coaches in Hartford are changing / have changed his game completely from juniors where he was able to dominate with size and skill. But please recall he only spent one year in juniors and only was there until age 18, where most players by that age have been with the same team and coach for three years. There is good reason for him to be behind in his development. If he can turn those skills into the NHL level game they are trying to teach him,, he very well could turn a corner and become a top-6 prospect in most people's minds real quickly once again.

We haven't watched the same player then. Ridiculous assessment of his game. He is a floater. The problem this season was Torts wanting him to grind and play with the puck on his stick.

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05-13-2011, 07:35 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation View Post

We haven't watched the same player then. Ridiculous assessment of his game. He is a floater. The problem this season was Torts wanting him to grind and play with the puck on his stick.
What is a floater, in your opinion?

When I think of a floater, I think of Luc Robitaille. Mediocre skater who didn't create opportunity's with his speed or skill set. Luc made a living finding open areas in the slot. Amazing hands, obviously, but wasn't an all-star because of his defensive work.

Bure was another floater, with a lot more speed. Actually, remove speed from his game and he wasn't that special, imo. Difference here though, was Bure was capable of creating his own opportunity's -- the only reason I consider him a floater was because of his defensive work. He practically hovered around his blue-line, waiting for outlet passes. He was good with his stick though, and was faster than any player on the ice, so it made up a bit.

Wolski's another floater. Guy doesn't win many 1-on-1 battles because he's pretty horrible along the boards. Most of his opportunity's are created in either open-ice, or when someone sets him up.

Gaborik's better defensively than Bure. He doesn't have the hands Luc had, but the bulk of his goal-total didn't come from someone feeding him the puck. Gaborik's superior to Wolski in every facet of the game.

Your definition for floater is either different from me, or you haven't watched a lot of Gaborik throughout his career. He's not your typical floater. He's a student of Lemaire. He has a lot more intangibles than your cliche floater.

It's a terrible label, imo.

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Old
05-13-2011, 08:21 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Guys, you are forgetting the basic law of physics in the post lockout NHL.

Evg "Potemkin" Grachev is 6'5. Unless you are absolute freak of nature, you will not be able to skate up and down the ice with the best of the best 5'9-6'1 players. And these days that's 90% of the forwards. The game is mostly about skating.

Size is not a strength anymore.

Except when a player is put in a position in which he can play to his strength, as kind of a offensive role player. If Gra hangs in there AND if we take carenof him -- I have no doubt he will turn into something like a mix of a Modin/Fedetenko/Anisimov type.

Hes 6'3... Dont know where you got 6'5. And there are plenty of forwards in the NHL who are 6'3.

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Old
05-13-2011, 08:44 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Hes 6'3... Dont know where you got 6'5. And there are plenty of forwards in the NHL who are 6'3.
Let's compromise - he's 6'4" according to the team's website.

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05-13-2011, 09:03 PM
  #115
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In response to all the Gaborik comments in here...

Even Gaborik is a floater; people say that like it's a bad thing.

The last thing this team needs another grinder who's worried more about checking and defense than scoring, and passes before shooting; they have 16 of those.

On this team, I'd rather have a guy who does nothing but drift around in his own little World and score 45-50 goals. This is if he executes of course. Execution is his problem, not his style.

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05-13-2011, 09:19 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Let's compromise - he's 6'4" according to the team's website.
Hes definately shorter than McIlrath is. 6'3-6'4 either way, definately not 6'5

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05-13-2011, 09:20 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Hes definately shorter than McIlrath is. 6'3-6'4 either way, definately not 6'5
Yeah but I've heard everything from 6'2 to 6'6 for McIlrath.

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Old
05-14-2011, 07:16 PM
  #118
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Given the cap this is how I think/hope it will pan out

C= Richards, Stepan, Anisimov,Boyle
RW= Gaborik, Callahan, Zuccarello, Prust
LW= Dubinsky, Wolski, Avery, Battle for spot between Grachev and Hagelin

I let all the UFA's walk, Feds did great this yr but let a kid contribute especially given cap space. Vinny same deal.

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