HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Realistic Goaltending Options

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-12-2011, 11:36 PM
  #676
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I'll just stop reading there.

A goaltender is a member of that team so if save percentage is a team-based stat, then the goaltender obviously plays a part in that.
The 4 hole hitter plays a part in the 3 hole hitters BA, is a player's BA a team stat?

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2011, 11:38 PM
  #677
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The 4 hole hitter plays a part in the 3 hole hitters BA, is a player's BA a team stat?
It is if his teammates are allowed to push the pitcher to make throws from various parts of the field/get in the way of pitches.

I don't know anything about how the mechanics of a batting order effect batting averages. It shouldn't matter.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2011, 11:40 PM
  #678
Slowbro
Registered User
 
Slowbro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
You need to stop lying to people.

I've never said goaltending doesn't matter entirely.

You need someone credible in between the pipes if you want to win a Cup. I, however, don't believe that player needs to be particularly great, just consistent enough to be a starter. I've remained consistent on that point of emphasis as well.

Honestly, you lie more than a politician. I kind of wish you would stop.
so why didnt we win with Biron in 2008?

Slowbro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2011, 11:40 PM
  #679
Slowbro
Registered User
 
Slowbro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
It is if his teammates are allowed to push the pitcher to make throws from various parts of the field/get in the way of pitches.

I don't know anything about how the mechanics of a batting order effect batting averages. It shouldn't matter.

Slowbro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2011, 11:42 PM
  #680
Terence Peterman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 5,296
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post

If save percentage is a team stat, then why does the goalie matter, Chris?

Terence Peterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2011, 11:43 PM
  #681
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
It is if his teammates are allowed to push the pitcher to make throws from various parts of the field/get in the way of pitches.
Come now, Chris, you're being cute because you have no actual basis for your opinion other than you thought it up and put it out there. What % of ownership over SVPCT would a goalie need before it became a "goalie" stat and not a "team" stat?

Quote:
I don't know anything about how the mechanics of a batting order effect batting averages. It shouldn't matter.
If you have Barry Bonds in his steroid prime hitting behind you, you're getting a fastball grooved down the middle to you with a 3 ball count. There's a reason everyone should expect a bit less from Jayson Werth in DC than what he did up here.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2011, 11:50 PM
  #682
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Come now, Chris, you're being cute because you have no actual basis for your opinion other than you thought it up and put it out there. What % of ownership over SVPCT would a goalie need before it became a "goalie" stat and not a "team" stat?
If you don't think a stronger defense helps a goaltender by making many shots easier to save then you're more insane than I thought.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2011, 12:12 AM
  #683
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
If you don't think a stronger defense helps a goaltender by making many shots easier to save then you're more insane than I thought.
I think a stronger defense has a demonstrable impact on GAA.

It does not have a big impact on SVPCT.

Brian Boucher played MUCH better this year than he did last year. He wasn't getting beat on first shots nearly as much as he did in his sporadic starts a season ago, and thus his numbers rose. When he started to falter and get beat on first shots again, his number plummeted... without much changing in front of him. Hell, game to game you saw it happening in the Buffalo series.

You're assumption is that better team defense alters the the set of shots that a goalie faces (which impact his SVPCT). Lets do some rough math for you to think about, and then you can get back to me.

My theory

Team defense is some variable, we'll call it Tdef.

Difficulty of shots faced is some other variable, we'll call it Sdif.

Now, Sdif has components which are more variables: Easy shots (Es), Medium shots (Ms), and Difficult shots (Ds).

So, my view is that Sdif = Tdef * (Es + Ms + Ds)

Now, a few things should stand out.

1) This explains why there's a great deal of consistency in goalie's SVPCT over their careers (outside of normal statistical noise).

2) This explains why improved team defense equates to improved GAA so smoothly (assuming goalie play remains the same).

3) This explains why goalie play can have such a heavy impact on a team independent of any other changes you might make.

Here's why all of that works out. Team defense has a significant impact on the shots a goalie faces... across the board. As team defense improves, it doesn't just cut down on difficult chances for the goalie, it cuts down on medium and easy chances as well. So, sure, the goalie doesn't get however many difficult chances he would have had previously, but he's also making less easy and medium saves, too.

Now, folks have attempted to quantify this stuff, but it always runs into problems. For example, how do you look at a shot chart and figure out if there was a screen set up, or a chance for a deflection, etc. with a shot attempt on goal? Not so simple without a level of detail stats will never grant us. It would be interesting to see how uniform the distribution of shots is from team to team if we were to really break it down. Another factor is opponents, does goalie X play against teams with weaker finishers more often (this would help his SVPCT some).

What's important, though, is that it's pretty easy to formulate abstracts that cause problems for our belief that team defense necessarily improves a goalie's chance at having an easier set of shots to make saves on.

In fact, I could make the argument that team defense may actually make it more difficult for the goalie (I don't buy it, but you could make it). Say, for example, you have a team that excels at blocking shots. They're going to block a lot more "easy" saves than they are "hard" saves, thus increasing the difficulty of the set of the shots the goalie is making saves on. This is likely one reason you see arguments that it's easier for goalies to post high SVPCT numbers when they face lots of shots.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 02:00 AM
  #684
Balls Mahoney
SAVE US SVEN
 
Balls Mahoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: +44 1252 230 607
Country: United States
Posts: 13,040
vCash: 500
I think a lot of you guys are dreaming if you think Vokoun is going for anything less than 5+ mil. He's consistently been an elite goaltender in Florida and he's going to be looking for big money as this could be his last fat contract.

In my opinion Bob is the future of this team and the Flyers should be looking for a veteran to play 35-45 games on a one or two year deal.

Realistically and this is going to get me some heat, I'd look into someone like Khabibulin. A vet Russian goalie who's been everywhere, done everything, and backstopped a Stanley Cup team. Plus I'd imagine he could be picked up on the cheap from Edmonton. He'd be a great 1B for Bob assuming he's a good locker room guy.

And taking a quick glance there's a few prominent vet goalies hitting the market that could play this role. Giguere, Roloson, Nabokov, and Theodore most notably.

__________________
Balls Mahoney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 10:29 AM
  #685
Edler4Norris
Nucks / Flyers
 
Edler4Norris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Rock
Country: United States
Posts: 140
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Edler4Norris Send a message via MSN to Edler4Norris
Bryzgalov is the best option but Vokoun makes the most sense. If it's a trade route Lindback and Schneider are the best options. But really do we hinder the growth of Bobrovsky by trading. It will be a free agent or an elder goalie like Nabokov that come here or on a smaller scale move of Vokoun being signed.

Edler4Norris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 10:42 AM
  #686
usahockey22flyers
Forza Roma
 
usahockey22flyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Jersey, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,538
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuckPOWEr View Post
Bryzgalov is the best option but Vokoun makes the most sense. If it's a trade route Lindback and Schneider are the best options. But really do we hinder the growth of Bobrovsky by trading. It will be a free agent or an elder goalie like Nabokov that come here or on a smaller scale move of Vokoun being signed.
This is a pretty good summary, but if we do sign Vokoun or Bryz, your gonna let Bobrovsky play 30+ games after signing a goalie for 4 million plus?

I think the best route is trading for Schneider, I don't want to overpay for a goalie.

usahockey22flyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 10:45 AM
  #687
flyersjamminontheone
In Claude we trust
 
flyersjamminontheone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Brandon, Friendly MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I think a stronger defense has a demonstrable impact on GAA.

It does not have a big impact on SVPCT.

Brian Boucher played MUCH better this year than he did last year. He wasn't getting beat on first shots nearly as much as he did in his sporadic starts a season ago, and thus his numbers rose. When he started to falter and get beat on first shots again, his number plummeted... without much changing in front of him. Hell, game to game you saw it happening in the Buffalo series.

You're assumption is that better team defense alters the the set of shots that a goalie faces (which impact his SVPCT). Lets do some rough math for you to think about, and then you can get back to me.

My theory

Team defense is some variable, we'll call it Tdef.

Difficulty of shots faced is some other variable, we'll call it Sdif.

Now, Sdif has components which are more variables: Easy shots (Es), Medium shots (Ms), and Difficult shots (Ds).

So, my view is that Sdif = Tdef * (Es + Ms + Ds)

Now, a few things should stand out.

1) This explains why there's a great deal of consistency in goalie's SVPCT over their careers (outside of normal statistical noise).

2) This explains why improved team defense equates to improved GAA so smoothly (assuming goalie play remains the same).

3) This explains why goalie play can have such a heavy impact on a team independent of any other changes you might make.

Here's why all of that works out. Team defense has a significant impact on the shots a goalie faces... across the board. As team defense improves, it doesn't just cut down on difficult chances for the goalie, it cuts down on medium and easy chances as well. So, sure, the goalie doesn't get however many difficult chances he would have had previously, but he's also making less easy and medium saves, too.

Now, folks have attempted to quantify this stuff, but it always runs into problems. For example, how do you look at a shot chart and figure out if there was a screen set up, or a chance for a deflection, etc. with a shot attempt on goal? Not so simple without a level of detail stats will never grant us. It would be interesting to see how uniform the distribution of shots is from team to team if we were to really break it down. Another factor is opponents, does goalie X play against teams with weaker finishers more often (this would help his SVPCT some).

What's important, though, is that it's pretty easy to formulate abstracts that cause problems for our belief that team defense necessarily improves a goalie's chance at having an easier set of shots to make saves on.

In fact, I could make the argument that team defense may actually make it more difficult for the goalie (I don't buy it, but you could make it). Say, for example, you have a team that excels at blocking shots. They're going to block a lot more "easy" saves than they are "hard" saves, thus increasing the difficulty of the set of the shots the goalie is making saves on. This is likely one reason you see arguments that it's easier for goalies to post high SVPCT numbers when they face lots of shots.
[YThttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3njjD41f48][/YT]

Ha ha jj

flyersjamminontheone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 11:03 AM
  #688
Giroux tha Damaja
Registered User
 
Giroux tha Damaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,234
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Giroux tha Damaja
Tdef makes more sense as the denominator of a quotient if it's going to equate to shot difficulty. Unless the absolute worst a team could be is a 1 and the best is a 0.

Either way, it's, like you said, a little too simple for my tastes.

Giroux tha Damaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 11:19 AM
  #689
phlocky
Registered User
 
phlocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,320
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
This is a pretty good summary, but if we do sign Vokoun or Bryz, your gonna let Bobrovsky play 30+ games after signing a goalie for 4 million plus?

I think the best route is trading for Schneider, I don't want to overpay for a goalie.


THIS.


We aren't likely to get Bryz, we'd have to move too many pieces to make it realistically work. Just for arguments sake, we'd have Hartnell and Carle, drop Carcillo, resign Leino @3.2 mil, resign Nodl @ 0.9 mil, Resign Powe @ 0.8 mil, bring up both Rinaldo and Wellwood to get to 13 forwards, resign O'Donnell @ 0.9 and bring up Gustafsson and Bartilus to get to 7 dmen AND STILL we'd only have around 4.2 mil for a goalie IF the cap goes up to 62.4 mil. Evidently Leino refused an offer of around 3 mil per year for an extension so if you plan on getting him for that or cheaper you are dreaming. If you say to let him walk then you are looking at replacing 2 guys in our top 9 and if you plan on getting someone cheaper than 3 mil then they will most likely be largely unproven so again, that's SERIOUSLY hurting our offense.


I know most people on here are in love with Bobrovsky and see no reason to go get another guy like Schneider when it's possible that Bob will be just as good or better. Maybe so, but honestly, Schneider IS ready to be "the guy" next year. He was ready THIS year but he has Luongo in front of him. Getting rid of Carter alone won't get us enough cap space to get a goalie. We WILL lose 2 or 3 major pieces from this years team if we plan on going after Bryz or Vokoun.

Personally, I'd try to make a trade with Vanc like this: To Vanc - Bobrovsky, Hartnell, + 2012 1st; to Phi - Schneider + Schroeder/Hodgson (most likely it would be Schroeder as they are looking for Hodgson to be their 3rd line, shutdown center). Bob replaces Schneider as a developing goalie for them, Hartnell jumps into their top 6, and the 1st is used to replace Schroeder. For us, Schroeder becomes our best forward prospect and jumps into our top 9. Schneider becomes our starting goalie with probably Boucher as his backup (50 games for Schneider and 30 games for Boucher). We'd look something like this:


Carter - Briere - Leino
JVR - Giroux - Schroeder
Versteeg - Richards - Nodl
Shelly/Rinaldo - Betts - Powe/Wellwood


Timonen - Coburn
Carle - Pronger
O'Donnell - Meszaros

Schneider - Boucher

That's about 59 mil right there. That would leave us about 3 mil for a 13th forward, 7th dman and injury call-ups providing the cap raises 2 mil as expected. We lose Hartnell and Carcillo off the current list of forwards and replace them with Schroeder and Wellwood/Rinaldo. We keep the current group of dmen. Schneider is "the man" in net for us. I can live with this.

phlocky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 11:34 AM
  #690
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
FAT SLOB
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 45,820
vCash: 500
Shuffling Bob for Schneider doesn't make sense to me. Why bother? And since I know people will say "Schneider is older," I'd like to cite Bob's mental fortitude, which is often described as his best asset. It's not like Schneider is a proven starter.

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 11:54 AM
  #691
phlocky
Registered User
 
phlocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,320
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Shuffling Bob for Schneider doesn't make sense to me. Why bother? And since I know people will say "Schneider is older," I'd like to cite Bob's mental fortitude, which is often described as his best asset. It's not like Schneider is a proven starter.
Schneider is both more ready to be a #1 and he's more of a sure thing" at this point. Bob MIGHT be just as good or even better in the future, however the point of the post was to show that we are NOT going to get one of Bryz/Vokoun so we are looking at a situation that Chi tried this year with the Turco dissaster where Bob is again "the man" where he is ready for it or not. I persoanally would rather have Schneider be "the man" for us next year rather than hoping Bob turns it around. Bob looked good at times but he has A LOT to work on.

You say that one of the best attributes of Bob is his mental fortitude??? Then why was he CLEARLY burned out by the last 6 weeks of the season with only playing about 60% of the games???? I know it's more than he was used to getting but if you expect him to be "the man" then he's damned well better be ablt to play in 60 games or so each and every year. IF something were to happen and we had to rely on Bob again next year I think we'd be in much the same boat as this year.

I've watched a lot of Schneider (Vanc is my #2 team hence why I know and like their prospects too) and I definitely see him as a better long term solution than Bob.

Bob is most likely NOT ready to be a #1 next year, Schneider IS. Don't forget that we also trade then Hartnell but we replace him with a very good young player in Schroeder. Shcroeder is green but should be ready for the NHL next year. He's far and away better than any prospect currently NOT on the Flyers and that includes Eriksson, Wellwood and Gustafsson.

phlocky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 11:57 AM
  #692
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Tdef makes more sense as the denominator of a quotient if it's going to equate to shot difficulty. Unless the absolute worst a team could be is a 1 and the best is a 0.

Either way, it's, like you said, a little too simple for my tastes.
As said, the folks that have tried to actually quantify that stuff have produced stuff that is rife with holes. The guy over at behindthenet attempted to make an argument based on where shots were taken (simple shot chart stats) and extrapolate that into an argument about the difficulty of saves a goalie makes... which is fine, but, as said, it runs into the problem that you are lacking any information about screens, tip and deflections, etc. A shot from 50 feet out with no one between the goalie and the shooter should be a relatively easy save... that same shot with a lot of traffic can become extremely difficult.

At the end, the fact that good goalies tend to post good SVPCT numbers throughout their career regardless of how the team in front of 'em plays suggests that this whole "SVPCT is a team statistic" argument has massive holes in it. Roberto Luongo and Vokoun have each proven that they do not need strong teams in front of 'em in order to post good numbers. Luongo went from a very poor defensive team in FLA to Vancouver and we see almost no alteration in his statistical output. Vokoun went from a very solid defensive team in Nashville to FLA and his numbers improved slightly (perhaps that is the "more shots" theory in play, it could also be the fact that he was in FLA while in the midst of what are prime years for goalies).

Then you have someone like Osgood, who was always known as a guy that was simply the product of the Red Wings strong team play. He goes to two weaker teams in the Islanders and Blues and posts almost identical numbers to his career numbers in Detroit over 180 games or whatever it was.

Now, all of this points to the fact that you can, in fact, greatly reduce goals allowed by investing in skaters (and solid coaching -- even more important, IMO). That being said, if your goal is to reduce goals against, what is the most cost effective means of doing it? More money put in a goalie that you can theoretically expect a better SVPCT output from, or more money in skaters? There's clearly a balance here, but an extra 2-3M in a goalie seems like it would go a lot further in most cases than having that invested in your third pairing D... or 3rd line wing.

The other aspect of all of this is that a better goalie is more likely to help you maintain a consistent level of team play. Similar to elite pitching talent, if you have an elite goalie then that greatly reduces the variance you're expecting to deal with over the course of the season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Shuffling Bob for Schneider doesn't make sense to me. Why bother? And since I know people will say "Schneider is older," I'd like to cite Bob's mental fortitude, which is often described as his best asset. It's not like Schneider is a proven starter.
I would have been very happy with a deal for Schneider last offseason, but I don't think it makes sense to give up the necessary goods for him with Bob in place... unless the primary piece in the deal IS Bob.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 12:01 PM
  #693
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 16,090
vCash: 500
EDIT: NVM I tired argueing about Schneider lol.

sa cyred is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 12:16 PM
  #694
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balls Mahoney View Post
I think a lot of you guys are dreaming if you think Vokoun is going for anything less than 5+ mil. He's consistently been an elite goaltender in Florida and he's going to be looking for big money as this could be his last fat contract.

In my opinion Bob is the future of this team and the Flyers should be looking for a veteran to play 35-45 games on a one or two year deal.

Realistically and this is going to get me some heat, I'd look into someone like Khabibulin. A vet Russian goalie who's been everywhere, done everything, and backstopped a Stanley Cup team. Plus I'd imagine he could be picked up on the cheap from Edmonton. He'd be a great 1B for Bob assuming he's a good locker room guy.

And taking a quick glance there's a few prominent vet goalies hitting the market that could play this role. Giguere, Roloson, Nabokov, and Theodore most notably.
Where is this fat contract going to come from? I'm not saying he isn't going to get decent money, but the goalie market has plummeted contractually, and it isn't simply a byproduct of the value that's been on the market. It's also a byproduct of the fact that the position on roster spots has ossified contractually, leaving goalies with little to no ability to create competition for their services. Essentially Bryz and Vokoun are the two guys this year, and they're quite similar in what you can expect from 'em (short term).

So for teams bidding for their services, they can see who will bite for the best contract (from the team's perspective) and land that guy leaving the other guy to whomever is left... really, there's only three teams that really make sense to land those two guys (TB, PHI, and COL).

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 12:32 PM
  #695
stick
Registered User
 
stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 192
vCash: 500
Just for fun remember

Robert Esche


200910 SKA Saint Petersburg KHL 42 29 7 5 2527 87 6 2.07 .917
NHL totals 186 78 64 22 10140 464 10 2.75 .900

stick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 12:41 PM
  #696
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 16,090
vCash: 500
Esche's rebound control makes Michael Leighton's rebound control look like it's his strongest asset.

sa cyred is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 12:56 PM
  #697
usahockey22flyers
Forza Roma
 
usahockey22flyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Jersey, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,538
vCash: 500
I do not want to trade Bob for Schneider, I really wouldn't mind a tandem of those two though.

A good cap hit, and wouldn't have to get rid of too much salary.

usahockey22flyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 01:01 PM
  #698
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
I do not want to trade Bob for Schneider, I really wouldn't mind a tandem of those two though.

A good cap hit, and wouldn't have to get rid of too much salary.
So you want to give up other young players (we don't have much coming along the pipe) to acquire Schneider, who, if he works out, will block Bob?

If the decision is that Schneider is a better option than Bob long-term, and that a deal makes sense for him... it makes almost no sense to not include Bob as part of the deal.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 01:28 PM
  #699
usahockey22flyers
Forza Roma
 
usahockey22flyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Jersey, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,538
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
So you want to give up other young players (we don't have much coming along the pipe) to acquire Schneider, who, if he works out, will block Bob?

If the decision is that Schneider is a better option than Bob long-term, and that a deal makes sense for him... it makes almost no sense to not include Bob as part of the deal.
I honestly don't think it will take much to go and get Schneider. Hartnell or Carle? Versteeg?

3 pieces I wouldn't hate to move.

Schneider is a RFA after next season so don't expect him to be in Vancouver after this season.

usahockey22flyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2011, 01:31 PM
  #700
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 16,090
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
So you want to give up other young players (we don't have much coming along the pipe) to acquire Schneider, who, if he works out, will block Bob?

If the decision is that Schneider is a better option than Bob long-term, and that a deal makes sense for him... it makes almost no sense to not include Bob as part of the deal.
I think it does come down to the "win now" thing. If you think a goalie, who is 3 years older then your current starter is a sure thing #1 (which Schneider hasnt proven yet) then I guess you go for it. Bob is 3 years younger and has played more games than Schneider. I do think its a kinda of waste to give up on him, after one season, where Bob actually looked pretty good for a rookie. This is all because the other guy has..um... more experience in the league years wise. Schneider's rookie season, in the few games he played, he was downright horrible. Other then the hype some people give him, Schneider hasnt shown he is a surefire starter, anymore than Bob has.


Last edited by sa cyred: 05-15-2011 at 01:38 PM.
sa cyred is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:12 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.