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Kyle Turris for Cody Franson

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Old
05-14-2011, 10:11 PM
  #1
barrytrotzsneck
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Kyle Turris for Cody Franson

Straight up.

Franson's got offensive ability for days and would look good as OEL's triggerman on the PP, but will never see first unit time in Nashville due to Suter and Weber. In addition, Ryan Ellis and Roman Josi are entering the fold, which will push him further down the chart.

Meanwhile, Kyle Turris has shown flashes, but has largely been disappointing in Phoenix due to inconsistency, and has thus bounced between SA and PHO. With a shallower offensive prospect pool in Nashville, he might do well with a fresh start. In addition, he briefly played with Blake Geoffrion at Wisconsin, so there's some familiarity there.

Thoughts?

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05-14-2011, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Straight up.

Franson's got offensive ability for days and would look good as OEL's triggerman on the PP, but will never see first unit time in Nashville due to Suter and Weber. In addition, Ryan Ellis and Roman Josi are entering the fold, which will push him further down the chart.

Meanwhile, Kyle Turris has shown flashes, but has largely been disappointing in Phoenix due to inconsistency, and has thus bounced between SA and PHO. With a shallower offensive prospect pool in Nashville, he might do well with a fresh start. In addition, he briefly played with Blake Geoffrion at Wisconsin, so there's some familiarity there.

Thoughts?
Needs. Phoenix has tons of young talent on the blue line and few centers.

Turris was also one of the few players doing anything against Detroit.

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05-14-2011, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Straight up.

Franson's got offensive ability for days and would look good as OEL's triggerman on the PP, but will never see first unit time in Nashville due to Suter and Weber. In addition, Ryan Ellis and Roman Josi are entering the fold, which will push him further down the chart.

Meanwhile, Kyle Turris has shown flashes, but has largely been disappointing in Phoenix due to inconsistency, and has thus bounced between SA and PHO. With a shallower offensive prospect pool in Nashville, he might do well with a fresh start. In addition, he briefly played with Blake Geoffrion at Wisconsin, so there's some familiarity there.

Thoughts?
First off no to the trade. Second, Turris has never "bounced" from SA to the NHL, he spent ayear down there to grow physically and never went back. Third, he was inconsistent because he hardly gets any ice time. And lastly, our offensive prospect pool might be even worse than Nashville's. Why would we trade our best offensive center on the team for a D-man who we have no need for considering our defensive prospect pool? OEL, Gormley, Goncharov, Summers, Stone, are all waiting for their chance in the NHL. This is a no-brainer.

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05-14-2011, 10:50 PM
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LOL, potential #1 center for a potential #4 defenseman... I know franson has inflated value on hf... but not by that much. Phoenix doesn't even need d either. Gormley, Yandle, OEL, etc. They need some high end forwards.

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05-14-2011, 11:43 PM
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Will probably cost double from nashville. Not only is turris better than his numbers sugest due to getting fewer minutes, phoenix has more than enough good defensemen in their prospect pool. If jovo leaves nexxt year the will miss him, but by the 12/13 season they won't

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05-14-2011, 11:46 PM
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Lets be serious.

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05-14-2011, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
If jovo leaves nexxt year the will miss him, but by the 12/13 season they won't
I don't even think he'll be missed much next season. He's declining pretty hard.

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05-15-2011, 12:02 AM
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Turris = 2.3 Points/60

Nashville's highest P/60 = 2.32 (Erat)


Just food for thought.

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05-15-2011, 12:17 AM
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I think the value is fine, but the Jets don't really need more dmen, what they need is centers with offensive talent and Turris still might become that guy. I'm far, far from sold on his talent, but the Jets probably want to give him more time rather than trade him for yet another dman.

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05-15-2011, 02:13 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Will probably cost double from nashville. Not only is turris better than his numbers sugest due to getting fewer minutes, phoenix has more than enough good defensemen in their prospect pool. If jovo leaves nexxt year the will miss him, but by the 12/13 season they won't
No we won't. At this point Schlemko and OEL are as good or better than him.

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05-15-2011, 02:31 AM
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OK. I'm sorry. I stand corrected. Phoenix won't miss him and Phoenix doesn't need Franzen.

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05-15-2011, 02:36 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by theguyonthecouch View Post
First off no to the trade. Second, Turris has never "bounced" from SA to the NHL, he spent ayear down there to grow physically and never went back. Third, he was inconsistent because he hardly gets any ice time. And lastly, our offensive prospect pool might be even worse than Nashville's. Why would we trade our best offensive center on the team for a D-man who we have no need for considering our defensive prospect pool? OEL, Gormley, Goncharov, Summers, Stone, are all waiting for their chance in the NHL. This is a no-brainer.
He hardly gets any icetime because he is inconsistent.

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05-15-2011, 02:48 AM
  #13
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He hardly gets any icetime because he is inconsistent.
That MIGHT be true, but it's also quite possible that Tippet is simply over-cautious with young players. A reputation he has long had.

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05-15-2011, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theguyonthecouch View Post
First off no to the trade. Second, Turris has never "bounced" from SA to the NHL, he spent ayear down there to grow physically and never went back. Third, he was inconsistent because he hardly gets any ice time. And lastly, our offensive prospect pool might be even worse than Nashville's. Why would we trade our best offensive center on the team for a D-man who we have no need for considering our defensive prospect pool? OEL, Gormley, Goncharov, Summers, Stone, are all waiting for their chance in the NHL. This is a no-brainer.
He has spent time in the AHL in the last three years. Two of those years were pretty decent chunks, and this most recent stint came in the middle of the season. Does Dave "Jack Adams" Tippett not know what he's doing or has Turris been, as I suggested, inconsistent?

If you don't like the trade, fine, but note also that Cody Franson has more points in about the same amount of games in the NHL as Turris...and he's a defenseman playing extremely sheltered third pairing minutes and getting 30-45 seconds of PP time on the second unit of a lower third PP. OEL and Gormley are nice prospects and all, but Franson would easily be the third best of your d pool, and unlike OEL and Gormley, has already proven himself in the NHL quite nicely. That's not to say they both won't end up better, but if you look at the deal as this:

Second line center for second pairing d-man\possible first PP unit QB, the value isn't that far off. If you don't need d-men, fine...but the value is close.

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05-15-2011, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
He has spent time in the AHL in the last three years. Two of those years were pretty decent chunks, and this most recent stint came in the middle of the season. Does Dave "Jack Adams" Tippett not know what he's doing or has Turris been, as I suggested, inconsistent?
last season, as a 21yo he spent almost the entire season in Phoenix and just 2 games in the AHL for reconditioning assignment
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
If you don't like the trade, fine, but note also that Cody Franson has more points in about the same amount of games in the NHL as Turris...and he's a defenseman playing extremely sheltered third pairing minutes and getting 30-45 seconds of PP time on the second unit of a lower third PP. OEL and Gormley are nice prospects and all, but Franson would easily be the third best of your d pool, and unlike OEL and Gormley, has already proven himself in the NHL quite nicely. That's not to say they both won't end up better, but if you look at the deal as this:
forgot about Yandle?and with Goncharov, Summers, Stone, Schlemko, where is the need? Maybe before the Coyotes acquired Kleska, but I'm not convinced he is better than Morris...
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Second line center for second pairing d-man\possible first PP unit QB, the value isn't that far off. If you don't need d-men, fine...but the value is close.
A future 1st line center for what would be a 3rd pairing d'man on an overcrowded defensive core? Nope the value isn't there...

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05-15-2011, 03:50 PM
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I'll take "future first liner" when I see even an inkling of reaching that potential. That's what he was drafted to be, but it hasn't happened, and doesn't even appear to be on track for happening at the moment. That'd be like calling Cody Franson a "future number 2," because that's what some considered him coming out of juniors. The reality is that he's, at the moment, a good number 5 that should grow into a solid number 4 over the next few years. Calling Turris more than a great second liner is relying on a lot of "Well, i'm sure he'll figure it out."

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05-15-2011, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I'll take "future first liner" when I see even an inkling of reaching that potential. That's what he was drafted to be, but it hasn't happened, and doesn't even appear to be on track for happening at the moment. That'd be like calling Cody Franson a "future number 2," because that's what some considered him coming out of juniors. The reality is that he's, at the moment, a good number 5 that should grow into a solid number 4 over the next few years. Calling Turris more than a great second liner is relying on a lot of "Well, i'm sure he'll figure it out."
I watched a lot of Franson in junior, and would love to add him to the Canucks blueline but I don't know if he was ever considered a legit #2 NHL dman. A legit 2nd pairing d-man yeah absolutely but not a top pairing guy. As for Turris, it's still pretty unclear what his role will be in the NHL, but from a very limited sample size I would say Turris could very easily become a very good #2, with top line ability (sort of like a Ribiero). Right now I would be reluctant to trade away the higher potential for the more proven, but potential lower ceiling player. It also seems that skilled centre's are harder to acquire then 2nd/3rd pairing dmen

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05-15-2011, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
He has spent time in the AHL in the last three years. Two of those years were pretty decent chunks, and this most recent stint came in the middle of the season. Does Dave "Jack Adams" Tippett not know what he's doing or has Turris been, as I suggested, inconsistent?

If you don't like the trade, fine, but note also that Cody Franson has more points in about the same amount of games in the NHL as Turris...and he's a defenseman playing extremely sheltered third pairing minutes and getting 30-45 seconds of PP time on the second unit of a lower third PP. OEL and Gormley are nice prospects and all, but Franson would easily be the third best of your d pool, and unlike OEL and Gormley, has already proven himself in the NHL quite nicely. That's not to say they both won't end up better, but if you look at the deal as this:

Second line center for second pairing d-man\possible first PP unit QB, the value isn't that far off. If you don't need d-men, fine...but the value is close.
He was sent down in his rookie year because he was too small, and he spent all of last year for the same reason. He was sent down briefly this year because of roster issues. Turris' problem isn't offense, it's defense. Tippett doesn't play guy's who aren't responsible defensively, which works against him sometimes. Arguably our most skilled guys offensively got little to no ice-time throughout the season simply because Tip doesn't "trust" them.


That last paragraph is one sided. So I'll be a homer too.

Turris is a #2 center, potential #1 who has one of the best shots in the game, and is on the verge of breaking out. He looked like a legit #1 against the Red Wings. Plus he's the only center prospect in the organization who could possibly see more than 4th line ice-time.

Franson might be good offensively, but he wouldn't see much time because of his defensive issues.

The value really isn't all that close. Go ask Kings fans for Schenn, Canucks fans for Hodgson, or Leafs fans for Kadri. They'll all say no. Turris has more value than all of them at this point. He's the only one that has done anything at the NHL level. Add in the fact that our D pool is overcrowded and this isn't close.

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Old
05-15-2011, 08:06 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Straight up.

Franson's got offensive ability for days and would look good as OEL's triggerman on the PP, but will never see first unit time in Nashville due to Suter and Weber. In addition, Ryan Ellis and Roman Josi are entering the fold, which will push him further down the chart.

Meanwhile, Kyle Turris has shown flashes, but has largely been disappointing in Phoenix due to inconsistency, and has thus bounced between SA and PHO. With a shallower offensive prospect pool in Nashville, he might do well with a fresh start. In addition, he briefly played with Blake Geoffrion at Wisconsin, so there's some familiarity there.

Thoughts?
This is the opposite of what Phoenix needs.

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