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2011 NHL Entry Draft/Other Prospects (All NON-RANGERS Prospect Discussion - Part 3) ‎

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Old
05-16-2011, 08:08 AM
  #26
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Looks like the word is out on Schiefele. Had to happen sooner or later I suppose.

As for the mock posted above. Rask in the mid second would be an excellent project pick. Huge upside there. Nieto would be a solid 2nd round pick as well.

Not really enamored with Miller. Especially if Scheifele and McNeil were still on the board.

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05-16-2011, 08:11 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
true but crappy draft doesn't mean 'no good players'. if we get a good player at 15 i'm perfectly fine with everyone else in the first round sucking, the reverse of 2003 LOL
Clearly you don't understand how worthless this draft is. It would be a waste of organizational resources to even make the trip. Phone in the draft picks, and use a dart board to make the selections.

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05-16-2011, 08:18 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Clearly you don't understand how worthless this draft is. It would be a waste of organizational resources to even make the trip. Phone in the draft picks, and use a dart board to make the selections.
I thought we were already doing that?

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05-16-2011, 08:36 AM
  #29
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Figured this would be the best place to ask, do any of you guys know why Tomas Jurco dropped so far down in the draft projections? I remember chatter that he was supposed to be taken in the top 15 of the 1st round at the start of the 2010-11 season.

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05-16-2011, 09:05 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Clearly you don't understand how worthless this draft is. It would be a waste of organizational resources to even make the trip. Phone in the draft picks, and use a dart board to make the selections.
We can't afford to waste our darts on the draft; we need to save them for July 1st to make random UFA signings. See Voros, Aaron; Rissmiller, Patrick.

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05-16-2011, 09:12 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Clearly you don't understand how worthless this draft is. It would be a waste of organizational resources to even make the trip. Phone in the draft picks, and use a dart board to make the selections.
********. It's big man's one time he can have some ice cream with friends and watch his employees work hard. He's gettin it in and attending.

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05-16-2011, 09:36 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Mint Berry Crunch View Post
Figured this would be the best place to ask, do any of you guys know why Tomas Jurco dropped so far down in the draft projections? I remember chatter that he was supposed to be taken in the top 15 of the 1st round at the start of the 2010-11 season.
Consistency. Jurco has insane skill, but he just doesn't bring it to the rink every night. He had a good start to the year, but his production really trailed off in the second half. Didn't improve much on his numbers from last year despite playing with a couple very good centers in St. Johns.

First round talent, but a 2nd or 3rd round compete level at best.

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05-16-2011, 09:50 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
Just randomly came across this mock draft today when googling "2011 Mock NHL Entry Drafts". It's mocks the entire seven rounds. Don't know how good it coule be when it has Bartschi and Scheifele going in the early second round. It has a write up on each player as well. Here is the link:

http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/mock-draft/2011

Has the Rangers selecting:

1.) J.T. Miller (RW)



The bolded worries me the most. Why take this kid when Puempel and McNeill are still on the board?

2a.) Victor Rask (C)



Wouldn't mind Rask in the second round. Either big boom or big bust, more then likely.

2b.) Matthew Nieto (LW)



Would love to get this kid in the late second round.

4.) Logan Shaw (RW)



I know nothing of this player except that he is pretty big at 6'3 190lbs.

5.) Jordan Binnington (G)



Was Stajcer's back-up in Owen Sound. Played well when he was injured.

Didn't realize the Rangers do not have a 3rd, 6th, and 7th round pick.

Don't know how realistic this mock is, or when it was first done. The draft picks are all correct, but there is no chance Bartschi and Scheifele go in the second round.
J.T. Miller could potentially be a steal.

It's either Plymouth of the OHL or North Dakota of the NCAA for him.
Consistent effort, high skill level, hard to the net.

Boom or bust.

What ever else happens, I love Nieto in the second round.

The one player I've consistently been adamant about the Rangers getting in this draft, be it by trade, first or second round, is Matthew Nieto. Been high on him all season.


Last edited by SupersonicMonkey*: 05-16-2011 at 09:55 AM.
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05-16-2011, 10:46 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Clearly you don't understand how worthless this draft is. It would be a waste of organizational resources to even make the trip. Phone in the draft picks, and use a dart board to make the selections.
It is as worthless as 2002 was for most teams. Some teams will hit but most will miss. As I said, I'd much, much rather move up and sacrifice our other draft picks to maximize the shot at actually getting a decent player.

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05-16-2011, 10:56 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
It is as worthless as 2002 was for most teams. Some teams will hit but most will miss. As I said, I'd much, much rather move up and sacrifice our other draft picks to maximize the shot at actually getting a decent player.
I had a dream last night that Rangers drafted Couturier in the first round (somehow they were 8th overall on the draft board, so they obviously made a trade with Columbus), and in the second round they somehow ended up with McNeill with one pick, and with the second pick... get this... Matt Barnes, who is a pitcher from UConn who will be in the MLB draft in 3 weeks... so that didn't make sense...

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05-16-2011, 11:07 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
I had a dream last night that Rangers drafted Couturier in the first round (somehow they were 8th overall on the draft board, so they obviously made a trade with Columbus), and in the second round they somehow ended up with McNeill with one pick, and with the second pick... get this... Matt Barnes, who is a pitcher from UConn who will be in the MLB draft in 3 weeks... so that didn't make sense...
I actually think Couturier could be gotten by us around 8 or 9. He's dropping like a rock right now.

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05-16-2011, 11:18 AM
  #37
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Am I imagining things or wasn't there some report a while back that the Rangers liked J.T. Miller?

I thought I recalled something like that.

To me the first round is more of a question mark then the second round.

The second round has some good value there.

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05-16-2011, 11:31 AM
  #38
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This draft is retarded and ridiculous. This much movement a month before the draft? Jesus.
You're kidding right? ISS lists look like that every year, this is the kinda thing you read from a draft newbie, not you. So maybe you have a bias towards this draft, eh?

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Rankings just don't fluctuate like this unless people just don't know how to rate the players. It's just another sign of this being a ****** draft.
These lists are the same ones Ive seen you blast over the last decade, but when they fit your agenda.....

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It is as worthless as 2002 was for most teams.
You said it, not me. MOST teams. So you admit that if a team does its homework they could leave the draft with some special players. Right? Admit it, doesn't hurt at all, try it

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05-16-2011, 11:38 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
It is as worthless as 2002 was for most teams. Some teams will hit but most will miss. As I said, I'd much, much rather move up and sacrifice our other draft picks to maximize the shot at actually getting a decent player.
If the draft is as bad as you seem to think it is, what's the incentive for a team to forfeit a top selection for a collection of picks amongst the riffraff?

I understand the notion that there's a drop-off after the top 8 or 9 players, but that can be said for just about any draft. The issue this year is depth. The guys from 10-25 are pretty much on the same tier, then you see drop off beyond #60 or so.

With the right scouting, any draft has the potential to be a good one for your team. There may not be an obvious superstar this year, but that doesn't mean there aren't any gems out there.


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05-16-2011, 12:13 PM
  #40
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The more research I do about Miller the more the mock makes sense.

Not similar players, but similar situation. Could be a pick similar to Kreider.

Drafting the player before he arrives in a league with more media attention.

Not saying I agree with it.

If I had the choice I'd take McNeill.

I still want Nieto and Clendening in the second round.

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05-16-2011, 03:36 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
You're kidding right? ISS lists look like that every year, this is the kinda thing you read from a draft newbie, not you. So maybe you have a bias towards this draft, eh?
If you took time to think for a second, you'd realize it's not just the ISS lists that are changing. The U18s are having more of an impact on player placement in this draft than I can remember in recent years. Guys simply have nothing really to go on with a lot of these players for whatever reason (be it a crappy goaltending or defensive pool throughout the draft) and the U18s are causing a staggering amount of changes in stock. We have seen a guy like Biggs fall straight out of the top 30 based off of a mediocre tournament when he was in the teens. This is not the U20s, where it's expected to see a lot of player movement. The fact that you are not scared of this draft is just insane to me. I would be terrified if I was a pro scout and my reputation was on the line with an early pick.

Some teams will always find gems in the draft. I'd much prefer to move the picks for established talent at this point, even if it meant losing a bit of value on the picks due to the nature of the draft. There will ALWAYS be teams out there willing to move good players for picks -- even if the draft is crap.

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05-16-2011, 03:42 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If the draft is as bad as you seem to think it is, what's the incentive for a team to forfeit a top selection for a collection of picks amongst the riffraff?

I understand the notion that there's a drop-off after the top 8 or 9 players, but that can be said for just about any draft. The issue this year is depth. The guys from 10-25 are pretty much on the same tier, then you see drop off beyond #60 or so.

With the right scouting, any draft has the potential to be a good one for your team. There may not be an obvious superstar this year, but that doesn't mean there aren't any gems out there.
Some teams will prefer the opposite opinion of mine. Stockpile picks and hope to hit with a few of them, rather than have limited picks and be under the pressure to hit with one of them.

I would say that there is a drop off after the top 4 (Larsson, RNH, Couturier and Landeskog -- and I don't even view Couturier as a real top 4 talent) that is pretty big in size and another drop off after the top 7 or so (Murphy, Huberdeau and Hamilton). That's why I'd like to target around the 8th spot, because there is a progressive sliding scale of a drop off from there to around 20th or so. You will certainly get a better player up there, but it's not a retarded difference that a team will tell you to **** off over. Especially if you throw them two second round picks and they are of the ilk that likes to stockpile picks.

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05-16-2011, 04:01 PM
  #43
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If you took time to think for a second, you'd realize it's not just the ISS lists that are changing. The U18s are having more of an impact on player placement in this draft than I can remember in recent years. Guys simply have nothing really to go on with a lot of these players for whatever reason (be it a crappy goaltending or defensive pool throughout the draft) and the U18s are causing a staggering amount of changes in stock. We have seen a guy like Biggs fall straight out of the top 30 based off of a mediocre tournament when he was in the teens. This is not the U20s, where it's expected to see a lot of player movement. The fact that you are not scared of this draft is just insane to me. I would be terrified if I was a pro scout and my reputation was on the line with an early pick.

Some teams will always find gems in the draft. I'd much prefer to move the picks for established talent at this point, even if it meant losing a bit of value on the picks due to the nature of the draft. There will ALWAYS be teams out there willing to move good players for picks -- even if the draft is crap.
"If you took the time to think for a second...." Hello to you as well old friend !

ISS has historically gone against ALL the major prospect evaluators. That list you may have a point, the others, are not as radical as you make them out to be, every year THN, Redline, etc all have separate and different takes on the first round. One only has to look at the last 3 drafts to realize just as many players had THE SAME ups and downs as this one. Not in the top 5? Yeah well Johansen and Fowler say hello from 2010

If anything we should be thrilled if this draft class is a hard read, not like we have a top 5 pick, its #15, anything could happen in a draft like this. How you continually discount it cause of 17 and 18 yr olds performance until this date is just mind-blowing coming from a know it all like you ! Take it from this know it all !

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05-16-2011, 04:15 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
If you took time to think for a second, you'd realize it's not just the ISS lists that are changing. The U18s are having more of an impact on player placement in this draft than I can remember in recent years. Guys simply have nothing really to go on with a lot of these players for whatever reason (be it a crappy goaltending or defensive pool throughout the draft) and the U18s are causing a staggering amount of changes in stock. We have seen a guy like Biggs fall straight out of the top 30 based off of a mediocre tournament when he was in the teens. This is not the U20s, where it's expected to see a lot of player movement. The fact that you are not scared of this draft is just insane to me. I would be terrified if I was a pro scout and my reputation was on the line with an early pick.

Some teams will always find gems in the draft. I'd much prefer to move the picks for established talent at this point, even if it meant losing a bit of value on the picks due to the nature of the draft. There will ALWAYS be teams out there willing to move good players for picks -- even if the draft is crap.
maybe your boy mr biggs just aint that good.

there are quite a few big time draftniks that arent on the biggs bandwagon, so to speak. and im not surprised that hes dropping based upon his no show at the u18. you act as though a weak u18 should go unnoticed and ignored.

as for this draft, if we could sign a young goal scorer i would also consider moving picks. problem is, im not sure that guy is available.

this draft lacks sizzle. im with ya there, but it doesnt lack talent. they are just not as numerous or maybe not as shiny and attractive as recent years. none the less, they are there.

especially some of the lesser known euros both at forward and defense.

and i continue to really like the big swede netminder and i dont mean fasth. we need to look seriously at net going forward. time to start thinking about grooming the next great swede goalie.

i mean this dude with the cool name




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05-16-2011, 04:17 PM
  #45
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The U18 doesn't really mean much to me, to be honest. I look at the U20s and the full year performance a lot more than an end of the year tourney.

The U18s, historically, have never created that much movement in the draft. Biggs was not terrible in the U18s, but did not distinguish himself enough (though had had a fine game against Canada by most reports -- and his main problems were he was undisciplined). You see guys move a few spots here and there with a good performance, but not drop out of the top 30 or move into it entirely.

It's just another sign that this is a poor draft. One sign in many that some of you guys continually overlook due to being draft obsessed or something. These crap drafts happened. We haven't had a real bad one since 2002. The league is due for one, really.

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05-16-2011, 04:55 PM
  #46
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Just get me Nieto, please.

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05-16-2011, 05:04 PM
  #47
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Just get me Nieto, please.
You're really in love with this kid, aren't you?

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05-16-2011, 05:38 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
If you took time to think for a second, you'd realize it's not just the ISS lists that are changing. The U18s are having more of an impact on player placement in this draft than I can remember in recent years. Guys simply have nothing really to go on with a lot of these players for whatever reason (be it a crappy goaltending or defensive pool throughout the draft) and the U18s are causing a staggering amount of changes in stock. We have seen a guy like Biggs fall straight out of the top 30 based off of a mediocre tournament when he was in the teens. This is not the U20s, where it's expected to see a lot of player movement. The fact that you are not scared of this draft is just insane to me. I would be terrified if I was a pro scout and my reputation was on the line with an early pick.

Some teams will always find gems in the draft. I'd much prefer to move the picks for established talent at this point, even if it meant losing a bit of value on the picks due to the nature of the draft. There will ALWAYS be teams out there willing to move good players for picks -- even if the draft is crap.
I think you are just afraid of whoever the Rangers pick busting. I don't care if the Rangers' pick busts, because this draft isn't that good and plenty of other team's picks will bust too. Hopefully, the Rangers go for the boom-or-bust pick, because if that pick does boom then that's great... if it busts, it's not that much better than a safe bottom six guy.

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05-16-2011, 05:46 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
I think you are just afraid of whoever the Rangers pick busting. I don't care if the Rangers' pick busts, because this draft isn't that good and plenty of other team's picks will bust too. Hopefully, the Rangers go for the boom-or-bust pick, because if that pick does boom then that's great... if it busts, it's not that much better than a safe bottom six guy.
I am absolutely afraid of wasting a first round pick that we could have moved for an established player.

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05-16-2011, 06:08 PM
  #50
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I am absolutely afraid of wasting a first round pick that we could have moved for an established player.
Say the Rangers move their first this year and perhaps a second this year, for another first next year. Two firsts next year in a stronger draft. Would you do that?

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