I am absolutely certain it would. The NHL is going to win, if they push this. Likely they'll quietly drop it now that it's made enough waves so idiots who think they can use logos that don't belong to them think twice before doing it in the future.
I get why this looks bad and likely isn't fair (they'll likely settle for a quiet apology), but every company with a valuable IP has to defend it like this or it quickly loses its value.
If he'd put a painting of Thor from the movie up there and said it was his kid's favorite comic book growing up, would you be fine with that? Just because this is a hockey team doesn't change basic law.
That isn't just a picture in a window, it's a giant advertisement that covers the side of a building. I'd be floored if the printer didn't warn him when he had it made.
Now you can make a very logical argument about indirect advertising benefiting the Habs, sure, but that's not how it works. The IP owner controls who or what people can do with it and that's very much a case by case basis. Given this is like the 10th one I've heard of this playoff, clearly the NHL is stepping up and reigning in unauthorized use of its IP, which while unsavory, is their right and, as far as their paying advertisers are concerned, their responsibility.
This is where I think it's important that fans and critics of the law suit need to make distinction.
Imagine if every business printed a huge bill board or poster along their exterior wall with the habs logo.
Little pictures inside the establishment, or tiny flags will hopefully remain a non-issue.
And at the end of the day, we can't compare the Habs brand to that of a comic book though; but I agree, distinctions and limits need to be established.
The one question I have is -- why doesn't the NHL go about educating businesses instead of slapping them on the wrists?
They are punishing those who support them, which does more PR damage than any benefit of being protective.
I got a question for you bi-law gurus about this topic.
If I own a small greasy spoon in downtown Montreal and bought a Montreal Canadiens flag on NHL.com... can I legally hang it outside my store?
Not trying to de-rail the thread or compare the two situations..
Every single person who got in trouble here has one common theme:
They paired a logo, with the name of the team, with an advertisement for their business in a public place.
Those are the key things.
Technically, it probably could get you in trouble, if you just had the flag, but it never would. They clamp down when it's publicly visible advertising that incorporates the logo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE
The one question I have is -- why doesn't the NHL go about educating businesses instead of slapping them on the wrists?
They are punishing those who support them, which is why it does more PR damage than any benefit of being protective.
That's the thing, read between the lines of the article and you can see he only got the bill because he didn't cooperate in the first place.
"The owner, Fadl Issa, painted over the Canadiens logos and the slogan when he first learned of possible infringement two months ago."
IE: He got a cease and desist letter and instead of taking it down, he painted over just the logo and hoped it would go away.
However, by that point, the thing is already on their radar and even without the logo, it still said the team's name and had the distinctive jersey markings.
...so they billed him after he failed to comply.
It's unfortunate, but had he just taken down the thing when they sent the initial letter, he wouldn't be facing the bill today.
I think you're right on hockey, I'd have to look. However, few actually show CBC, they have the Center Ice package. I may be mistaken, but I suspect NHL Center Ice has a special business package they distribute.
Obviously with things like UFC and such, there are other considerations when they charge admission too.
Regardless, this a law that is routinely flaunted and ignored and it's a case by case basis. Literally, anything (up to the jersey) could get you in trouble if someone chose to press it. The line usually gets drawn at using the actual logos in advertising that is visible in public. Seems fair to me.
Look at the photo: This "sign in the window" is like 20 feet tall and hanging from the side of a building.
And yes, it does. Why on Earth would Mikes pay for NHL endorsement deals where it uses the logos leaglly when this and any other greasy spoon in town can do it for free?
with any "business package" from Videotron you can get that, RDS and TSN... and the only difference between regular consumers and businesses for this is they basically pay for the number of TV they have (X for 1-9 TV, Y for 11-15 TV, etc...)
and while you could claim that by ordering CenterIce you're ordering a NHL product and are somehow granted access to publicise it (maybe?), that's not the case with RDS/TSN, neither are NHL products... and I have yet to see a Bar being fined for having their TV set to RDS when a Habs game is on...
I think you're right on hockey, I'd have to look. However, few actually show CBC, they have the Center Ice package. I may be mistaken, but I suspect NHL Center Ice has a special business package they distribute.
Obviously with things like UFC and such, there are other considerations when they charge admission too.
Regardless, this a law that is routinely flaunted and ignored and it's a case by case basis. Literally, anything (up to the jersey) could get you in trouble if someone chose to press it. The line usually gets drawn at using the actual logos in advertising that is visible in public. Seems fair to me.
Look at the photo: This "sign in the window" is like 20 feet tall and hanging from the side of a building.
And yes, it does. Why on Earth would Mikes pay for NHL endorsement deals where it uses the logos leaglly when this and any other greasy spoon in town can do it for free?
Because everyone who wants to put up a flag of the Habs or the Habs logo anywhere during the playoffs in Montreal should be able to if you ask me. I see absolutely no harm in it, in fact I think it's great for the city and for the NHL. The NHL interjecting here is nothing but greed. Although in today's world that is really not surprising. God forbid they ignore a little copyright law and let fans have fun during the playoffs!
Lucius is right. Putting a habs logo of a jersey isn't the same as making an advertisement meshing your company and the habs trademarks. Considering the guy covered it up 2 months ago, he'll likely not pay a thing, but to say he did nothing wrong is well....wrong.
Just like habsinsideout is now hockeyinsideout. You can't do it. Sports team or not.
This is where I think it's important that fans and critics of the law suit need to make distinction.
Imagine if every business printed a huge bill board or poster along their exterior wall with the habs logo.
Little pictures inside the establishment, or tiny flags will hopefully remain a non-issue.
And at the end of the day, we can't compare the Habs brand to that of a comic book though; but I agree, distinctions and limits need to be established.
The one question I have is -- why doesn't the NHL go about educating businesses instead of slapping them on the wrists?
They are punishing those who support them, which does more PR damage than any benefit of being protective.
This. Cause while it's true it's illegal to do so, all this does is provides the Habs/NHL more exposure wich is never a bad thing for a Corp.
Think a lgal notice, asking the owner to take it down, would have sufficed.
Because everyone who wants to put up a flag of the Habs or the Habs logo anywhere during the playoffs in Montreal should be able to if you ask me. I see absolutely no harm in it, in fact I think it's great for the city and for the NHL. The NHL interjecting here is nothing but greed. Although in today's world that is really not surprising. God forbid they ignore a little copyright law and let fans have fun during the playoffs!
And anyone who wants to do that CAN do that as long as they don't do it in their advertising. Again, this shouldn't be hard to understand and anyone who has the money to put a multi-story banner up probably knows this already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI
This. Cause while it's true it's illegal to do so, all this does is provides the Habs/NHL more exposure wich is never a bad thing for a Corp.
Think a lgal notice, asking the owner to take it down, would have sufficed.
Which he got two months ago, but instead of complying, just painted over small parts of it and still left it up there, blatantly obvious as to what it was.
...and more exposure IS a bad thing when exposure is a part of your business you've monetized. If you as a company actively sell the placement of your brand to promote other products (which is why I made the movie/comic book comparison), then letting people do this actively costs you money. I am absolutely certain that the number they arrived at is actually the exact price they'd charge anyone who displayed a single banner of that size for that duration with that team in that market.
Teams and the league make huge money off of selling those rights to companies to use in advertising. If they didn't enforce these rules, it would undermine the price they can charge on these things.
It's an unfortunate reality of business and this guy is just playing on public sympathy to get this tossed out when he almost certainly knew exactly the potential consequences when he put the sign up. Yes, I get the "little guy screwed by evil corporation" narrative is fun, but this guy is either an idiot or was just counting on exactly that narrative to let him slide by. Odds are, he figured no one would notice and got caught.
Bars and such have to buy a special license for their PPVs and games in regular circumstances. I am sure many ignore that too, but that doesn't make it legal.
There are PLENTY of ways to pull this off without using the logo. Take Boston Pizza. That was amazingly clever and didn't infringe on a thing. This guy just tried to get something for free (this is a giant advertisement for his store, not a public showing of his love of the Canadiens) and flamed out spectacularly. Why would a company like say Mike's (they used to have some actual Habs ads if I recall) pay when other people in the city can just do it for free under the guise of civic pride?
I agree with you to an extent, but a simple phone call, saying "hey buddy you have to take your sign down", would of done the same thing? What is 89k to the NHL? Nothing, but it's probably quite a bit to the restaurant owner.
The whole thing is kinda cheap imo. I wish the guy luck and hopefully he doesn't have to pay a nickle.
I drove by a pub when the playoffs started that had a sign Free Pizza For Every Leaf Playoff Goal, I chuckled and the wife asked what's so funny about that, I replied the Leafs haven't been in the playoffs for years.
I drove by a pub when the playoffs started that had a sign Free Pizza For Every Leaf Playoff Goal, I chuckled and the wife asked what's so funny about that, I replied the Leafs haven't been in the playoffs for years.
A business partner of mine had a beer league with a website. On the web site, he used some photostock from NHL games to illustrate hockey in his header.
He got a letter too. And had to change his web site for it. Not a 98k bill, but a letter.
happens all the time.
The one that bothers me is the Habs trademark. I have something against it because, while legally it's owned by the team, it's really owned by the fans*. THEY invented it.
The NHL interjecting here is nothing but greed. Although in today's world that is really not surprising. God forbid they ignore a little copyright law and let fans have fun during the playoffs!
Everyone hating on the NHL needs to realize that the complaint likely came from the Habs organization. How else would Gary Bettmen in NYC know about it.
Its much more about protecting the CH rights as it is the NHL.
It's one thing to put up a sign supporting the local team. Its a completely different story to use their logo on a billboard advertising your business.
A business partner of mine had a beer league with a website. On the web site, he used some photostock from NHL games to illustrate hockey in his header.
He got a letter too. And had to change his web site for it. Not a 98k bill, but a letter.
happens all the time.
The one that bothers me is the Habs trademark. I have something against it because, while legally it's owned by the team, it's really owned by the fans*. THEY invented it.
Exactly, he got a letter just like this guy except the owner of Basha refused to take the massive sign down after multiple warnings.
I am inclined to believe that this claim is the result of Molson sickin' the league on this franchisee. I suspect G.M. doesn't want his legal team to do the heavy lifting because it has the potential to blow up on him locally.
Molson is an MBA and VP of marketing at Coors-Molson, his expertise and focus is branding and that includes snooping for copyright infringement.
I imagine I am old enough to be the father of some on this board, and to play on an old car commercial, "this is not your father's league".
Edit: anybody seen or wonder about the possibilities of similar situations in the state of Florida, Georgia, Arizona or California. I suspect those situations would be proof of the power of the NHL brand, but not so much in this case.
And anyone who wants to do that CAN do that as long as they don't do it in their advertising. Again, this shouldn't be hard to understand and anyone who has the money to put a multi-story banner up probably knows this already.
Which he got two months ago, but instead of complying, just painted over small parts of it and still left it up there, blatantly obvious as to what it was.
...and more exposure IS a bad thing when exposure is a part of your business you've monetized. If you as a company actively sell the placement of your brand to promote other products (which is why I made the movie/comic book comparison), then letting people do this actively costs you money. I am absolutely certain that the number they arrived at is actually the exact price they'd charge anyone who displayed a single banner of that size for that duration with that team in that market.
No one would pay such a price, not a single restaurant/bar would... unless you have a franchise (st Hub, Mikes, McDo, etc) and have some sort of "package deal".
Not in a town like Montreal where a simple mention such as "sport bar" or something implies you're showing Habs games (and therefore make $ off a NHL product)
Place I work only mention "on présente les matchs de hockey" (no mention of Habs or NHL), and the bar is full on Habs game nights... you know...
(and it's not a sports bar, but owner thought that having 8 TV in the bar, RDS and TSN amongst other channels)
Future bumper sticker.
