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View Poll Results:
Sven Bartschi, LW, Portland (WHL) 25 28.74%
Nathan Beaulieu, D, Saint John (QMJHL) 2 2.30%
Tyler Biggs, RW, U18 NDTP (USHL) 5 5.75%
Jonas Brodin, D, Farjestad (SEL) 1 1.15%
Rocco Grimaldi, C, USNTP (USHL) 2 2.30%
Dmitrij Jaskin, RW, Slavia Praha (Czech) 2 2.30%
Niklas Jensen, RW, Oshawa (OHL) 1 1.15%
Alexander Khokhlachev, C, Windsor (OHL) 21 24.14%
Joe Morrow, D, Portland (WHL) 0 0%
David Musil, D, Vancouver (WHL) 0 0%
Vladislav Namestinkov, C, London (OHL) 3 3.45%
Matthew Puempel, LW, Peterborough (OHL) 14 16.09%
Ty Rattie, RW, Portland (WHL) 0 0%
Brandon Saad, LW, Saginaw (OHL) 7 8.05%
Couple's councilor for Torts and Brooks 4 4.60%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-16-2011, 05:52 PM
  #51
Bird Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshy3413 View Post
I will trust the scouting reports, they are paid professionals and it is their job to provide information for us, therefore I trust that information, and also I have to rely on it as I am unable to watch CHL games and can only go by what I see in highlights, hence the fact I am unaware of his apparent decline in skating ability and other things you mention
There has not been a good scouting report out on the kid in months. How old are these reports that you are reading? He's been dropping for months now. I don't see how you can sit there and say all these nice things about a kid you have never seen play and are reading old scouting reports on. It's kind of unbelievable.

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05-16-2011, 06:13 PM
  #52
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I don't always agree with Jonathan as far as who is the absolute best pick but like Bluenote, Edge and a few others the draft is an area of expertise for them and they've been coming here for years with their thoughts and if any of them really don't like someone I pay attention--despite being okay with McIlrath last year--sorry Bluenote. In any case Jonathan puts a lot of homework into this and he's been down on Saad for a while. Got to think there's something in what he says.

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05-16-2011, 06:18 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
There has not been a good scouting report out on the kid in months. How old are these reports that you are reading? He's been dropping for months now. I don't see how you can sit there and say all these nice things about a kid you have never seen play and are reading old scouting reports on. It's kind of unbelievable.
Then evidently the reports I have read are old, I just find it shocking that he could possibly slip that much after being so highly regarded which is why I have been defending him. You are right I have never seen him play, nor have I seen any others in this poll, so I was forced to make my judgement based on what I knew from what I've read about them. Clearly I am ill-informed which is of no fault of my own, sorry for wasting your time.

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05-16-2011, 06:37 PM
  #54
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Puempel or Koko.

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05-16-2011, 06:51 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I don't always agree with Jonathan as far as who is the absolute best pick but like Bluenote, Edge and a few others the draft is an area of expertise for them and they've been coming here for years with their thoughts and if any of them really don't like someone I pay attention--despite being okay with McIlrath last year--sorry Bluenote. In any case Jonathan puts a lot of homework into this and he's been down on Saad for a while. Got to think there's something in what he says.
Don't be sorry, I loved the Brendl and Lundmark picks. Being wrong made me want to learn and get better at evaluating 17 and 18 yr olds. Reading good posters like Edge and all the greats around here made me want to learn more.

Good thing is this board offers more than one or two sides of the story, that's when reading through the usual BS about prospects gets interesting. Plenty of guys do the homework, plenty are bias at times depending on what kind of players they like or think we should be drafting. I try to stick to facts, its gotten me in less trouble over the years

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05-16-2011, 06:52 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshy3413 View Post
Then evidently the reports I have read are old, I just find it shocking that he could possibly slip that much after being so highly regarded which is why I have been defending him. You are right I have never seen him play, nor have I seen any others in this poll, so I was forced to make my judgement based on what I knew from what I've read about them. Clearly I am ill-informed which is of no fault of my own, sorry for wasting your time.
Saad's case is quite strange, though. He seems to have perplexed every scout that was high on him at one point. Obviously every prospect will be hot and cold as far as stats, or just have bounces not go there way, but for something as simple and fundamental as skating to be "regressed" in the words of scouts, this is definitely a red flag.

You hope it was his nagging groin injury in february, but then again his struggles actually started weeks before that.

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Old
05-16-2011, 07:03 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshy3413 View Post
Then evidently the reports I have read are old, I just find it shocking that he could possibly slip that much after being so highly regarded which is why I have been defending him. You are right I have never seen him play, nor have I seen any others in this poll, so I was forced to make my judgement based on what I knew from what I've read about them. Clearly I am ill-informed which is of no fault of my own, sorry for wasting your time.
You were misinformed, it happens, not a crime although JOn might have you tried as a draft time criminal

Saad has shown flashes of brilliant play, that is the gist of it. Plenty of players have had bad years and were called lazy and whatever else you want to label an 18 yr old as yet still gone on to be players.

And I can most certainly question anyone who brings up that regressed skating quote. How can anyone not understand that the injury WAS the 'oddly enough' part of the equation ?

I feel I must add, 'this is not an endorsement for Saad as our 1st round pick'.

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05-16-2011, 07:11 PM
  #58
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Ok you know its coming... Matthew Nieto!

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05-16-2011, 07:13 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshy3413 View Post
Then evidently the reports I have read are old, I just find it shocking that he could possibly slip that much after being so highly regarded which is why I have been defending him. You are right I have never seen him play, nor have I seen any others in this poll, so I was forced to make my judgement based on what I knew from what I've read about them. Clearly I am ill-informed which is of no fault of my own, sorry for wasting your time.
It's not wasting my time, but I dislike it when someone who has never watched a player once tells me I don't know what I'm seeing (especially when it's largely been agreed upon in the scouting community over the last few months). Essentially, he's free fallen. He might not even be a first round pick at this point. I was a HUGE Saad fan when he was tearing it up as a young teen and have been following his progression for a few years now. Probably why I am so upset about his play and seeming lack of caring. He really was a special talent at one point so it's been a shocking fall for him and the people who have watched him.

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05-16-2011, 07:15 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
You were misinformed, it happens, not a crime although JOn might have you tried as a draft time criminal

Saad has shown flashes of brilliant play, that is the gist of it. Plenty of players have had bad years and were called lazy and whatever else you want to label an 18 yr old as yet still gone on to be players.

And I can most certainly question anyone who brings up that regressed skating quote. How can anyone not understand that the injury WAS the 'oddly enough' part of the equation ?

I feel I must add, 'this is not an endorsement for Saad as our 1st round pick'.
The injury happened in January. By all accounts it is behind him, yet his skating has gotten worse even after the injury time passed. He's gone back to his older, choppier skating again. That problem seemed to be fixed this year, but perhaps the groin injury is a LONG term injury that will be a pain in his skating stride for some time? It's possible, but something does not add up with his skating at all. There is something wrong somewhere. Be it in how hard he is trying (and I wouldn't put it past him to not want to play through pain as we have seen him wilt under pressure all year) or there will be lasting effects with the injury.

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Old
05-16-2011, 07:17 PM
  #61
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05-16-2011, 07:17 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
You were misinformed, it happens, not a crime although JOn might have you tried as a draft time criminal

Saad has shown flashes of brilliant play, that is the gist of it. Plenty of players have had bad years and were called lazy and whatever else you want to label an 18 yr old as yet still gone on to be players.

And I can most certainly question anyone who brings up that regressed skating quote. How can anyone not understand that the injury WAS the 'oddly enough' part of the equation ?

I feel I must add, 'this is not an endorsement for Saad as our 1st round pick'.
Aren't scouts supposed to be informed about an injury, especially a player playing through one? From what I've heard these kids are told that playing through a nagging injury won't hurt draft status and that a scout would know this.

For a scout to use such strong language as "regressed" describing the kid's skating ability without acknowledging and/or knowing that he's nursing a groin injury is pretty brash, no? Quite confusing if you ask me.

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05-16-2011, 07:23 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
The injury happened in January. By all accounts it is behind him, yet his skating has gotten worse even after the injury time passed. He's gone back to his older, choppier skating again. That problem seemed to be fixed this year, but perhaps the groin injury is a LONG term injury that will be a pain in his skating stride for some time? It's possible, but something does not add up with his skating at all. There is something wrong somewhere. Be it in how hard he is trying (and I wouldn't put it past him to not want to play through pain as we have seen him wilt under pressure all year) or there will be lasting effects with the injury.
He had a great U-18 last year, his skating was good, he was hitting and getting involved, numerous scoring chances on the PK. Maybe its all down hill for the 18 yr old, but I wouldn't be shocked if some team gets a very good player here that can step into the NHL sooner rather than later(if the injury is deemed not a true concern). Probably the Pens, he'll haunt us for years

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05-16-2011, 07:23 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noonansgoal View Post
Aren't scouts supposed to be informed about an injury, especially a player playing through one? From what I've heard these kids are told that playing through a nagging injury won't hurt draft status and that a scout would know this.

For a scout to use such strong language as "regressed" describing the kid's skating ability without acknowledging and/or knowing that he's nursing a groin injury is pretty brash, no? Quite confusing if you ask me.
That's why it's clearly way more than just the injury. If it was just an injury, this wouldn't be a problem. I think a lot of people still are buying into his pre-draft hype. He had a terrible year. If he were a college player or a USHL player, he would have been dropped to the second or third round by now. I think CHL players are given quite a bit of leeway with the scouting services (though I have to think he's rated quite a bit lower by actual scouts than by scouting services).

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05-16-2011, 07:26 PM
  #65
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Bartschi or Puempel.

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05-16-2011, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
That's why it's clearly way more than just the injury. If it was just an injury, this wouldn't be a problem. I think a lot of people still are buying into his pre-draft hype. He had a terrible year. If he were a college player or a USHL player, he would have been dropped to the second or third round by now. I think CHL players are given quite a bit of leeway with the scouting services (though I have to think he's rated quite a bit lower by actual scouts than by scouting services).
Great point right there.

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05-16-2011, 07:36 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
It's not wasting my time, but I dislike it when someone who has never watched a player once tells me I don't know what I'm seeing (especially when it's largely been agreed upon in the scouting community over the last few months). Essentially, he's free fallen. He might not even be a first round pick at this point. I was a HUGE Saad fan when he was tearing it up as a young teen and have been following his progression for a few years now. Probably why I am so upset about his play and seeming lack of caring. He really was a special talent at one point so it's been a shocking fall for him and the people who have watched him.
I was just very confused that you were criticising him so much after I had read all those reports that were so high on him and watched videos of his skill, but it makes sense to me now

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05-16-2011, 07:41 PM
  #68
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Quote:
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That's why it's clearly way more than just the injury. If it was just an injury, this wouldn't be a problem. I think a lot of people still are buying into his pre-draft hype. He had a terrible year. If he were a college player or a USHL player, he would have been dropped to the second or third round by now. I think CHL players are given quite a bit of leeway with the scouting services (though I have to think he's rated quite a bit lower by actual scouts than by scouting services).
Terrible year is hard to say about a guy who still played at a PPG. Tale of two seasons? Yes. Terrible awful player like you're making him out to be? No, don't believe it.

The 4 point game he had in clinching the series against Guelph must have been imagined. His end of the 1st period goal tied the game and his team came out and scored 4 straight goals in the 2nd. The next series his team lost to a deep Windsor team and still he was one of the stars of the game, Saginaw's last win of the season before they were ousted in a shutout by Campbell.

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05-16-2011, 07:55 PM
  #69
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I don't know as much about the middle tier prospects in the draft this year but I know that if the draft shakes up like that then you should go with the BPA and that's Sven.

Wouldn't mind Puempel either.

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05-16-2011, 08:22 PM
  #70
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Biggs had a terrible U18, and thats caused him to drop in the ranks. He's an aggressive power forward, however, A.) I just see him as redundant with the current rangers lineup/prospect pool, and B.) I don't think he's the BPA at #15.

I think the rangers need to take a chance on some pure skill in this draft, being that picks 13-40 in terms of overall talent take a major plateau. I roll the dice on either of the two russians, or a guy like puempel.
If the draft were to play out like this, then I'm right there with you. Voted Koko, but any of those three would be good with me.

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05-16-2011, 09:34 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Terrible year is hard to say about a guy who still played at a PPG. Tale of two seasons? Yes. Terrible awful player like you're making him out to be? No, don't believe it.

The 4 point game he had in clinching the series against Guelph must have been imagined. His end of the 1st period goal tied the game and his team came out and scored 4 straight goals in the 2nd. The next series his team lost to a deep Windsor team and still he was one of the stars of the game, Saginaw's last win of the season before they were ousted in a shutout by Campbell.
I think his whole problem was that even early in the year it appeared that he had issues with trying hard and caring. Not as noticeable due to his skill.

Frankly, I think this eliminates him as a viable pick in the first since players like this tend to amount to little to nothing.

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05-19-2011, 06:01 PM
  #72
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Great thread!
Lot's of insightful posts.

Unsure if we will still pick from 15, or trade up OR down.
Based on our needs, probably would have taken Puempel

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05-21-2011, 02:21 AM
  #73
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Saad had 4 goals in his last 22 games and is slow.


Pass.


if Armia, Mika, Scheifele and macNeil are gone, draft Biggs at 15 and trade 45 and 55 to move up and draft Grimaldi or Catenacci.

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05-21-2011, 06:31 AM
  #74
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Saad had 4 goals in his last 22 games and is slow.


Pass.


if Armia, Mika, Scheifele and macNeil are gone, draft Biggs at 15 and trade 45 and 55 to move up and draft Grimaldi or Catenacci.
this talk of moving up sounds good. if a team is willing to do that and we can get 2 picks in the top 30 i would be fine with that.

i would also consider a trade down in round 1. if we can get another 2nd rounder, fine. even a high 3rd rounder.

this draft to me is about quantity. maybe more picks is better. 4 players in the top 75 is better than 2 in the top 30 imo.

koko
schiefele
peumpel
grimaldi
ritchie
brodin
klefbom
mayfield
catenacci
colin jacobs

those are my 10 guys i want

ill take any 2 or 3 and run laughing to the bank

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05-21-2011, 06:34 AM
  #75
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I really think with Schiefele and McNeil off the Board, I look to trade back to around 25 and pick one of Grimaldi, Namestnikov or Khoklachev

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