Flop...but I wouldn't give up on him just yet. Look how AK turned his game around. Pouliot needs to work on his skating, balance and checking. I also think he is using a stick that is too long for him because he cannot seem to pass or shoot effectively. This may be related to his balance though. Back to the basics BP.
Pouliot probably needs a coach who won't give up on him at the first sign of trouble. Martin isn't that coach.
But we have little talent on the wings. Giving up on Pouliot would be stupid, we have few young wingers with the potential to be decent scorers.
The AK pick was a mistake, there is no other way to look at it.
You don't select a high risk player in the first round -- especially not an European -- when there are plenty of players available who have a very high ceiling and are much safer picks. The 2003 draft was not one in which Timmins could afford to take a risk.
At the time of the draft no-one on the board had as high of celling as Kostitsyn. You can still see that he has as strong of a skill set as say Getzalf. He didn't hit his celling however and ended up a decent but not great top-six forward.
Pouliot looks bad when he gets promoted because he doesn't have the overall game to play against that kind of compition. I'm quite fine however with his current role on the team, which is as a tertiary scorer on the bottom six, especially because he gives a real offensive threat to play with Eller and/or Desharnias as the develope. Pyatt and Moen are there to be regular shift defensive forwards and regular penalty killers, so a guy like Pouliot can be sheletered in a bottom-six role. There is also the off-chance that he at some point makes a breakthrough an becomes a quality second liner, so there is upside to keeping him around.
When has Gainey told anybody that he was planning to draft Pouliot if he was still there?
It's been reported during and after the draft. Hope you don't expect people to dig those articles out, it wouldn't be fair. But it was documented that Gainey (by Gainey I mean the Habs) wanted Pouliot.
Yeah I clearly remember Timmins was being asked why a goalie, he said he was clearly the best player on their list at that point, but Said If Pouliot would have fell one more spot they would have taken him.
misunderstood. I maintain that he's a good enough player to meet the standards we from time to time elevate him to. If he can stop taking bad (chintzy really) penalties, it'll go a long way. He's a talented forward who can score as well as really great hands. I'd rather have him than not have him if he accepts that he won't get top 6 mins. I wish we could have offensive depth and to that end, he helps a lot, especially if he plays with DD. Also...taken out two Bruins in a season. gotta at least give him props for that. I agree he didn't have the best season he could have and missed a lot of chances, but so did a lottttttt of players. He'll have a big season next year if he gets ice time.
In no way am I going to admit he's a flop... yet.
Give him more than 12 minutes a night, and his PPG goes up dramatically.
For example: this season he played 30 Games where he averaged more than 12 minutes of Ice time.
8 G - 6 A in 30 GP (over 12 minutes)
furthermore, his average of 48 seconds of PP time, leaves him 6th on the club in wingers in PP ice time. That's spare PP time. For a guy who was talented enough to get drafted in the top 4, and was our guy @ # 5 if we could have drafted him, he really hasnt gotten the chance to be the PP guy he was the year before when he was 'breaking out' with us. He also averaged 2:10 a game in PP ice time. and was putting up a goal every second game.
The talent is there... as many will not deny he does have fantastic hands. You CANNOT teach that to people. You rather have that skill, or you dont. That's why you dont give up on #57.
Just hopefully he's not like Heinz next year, giving us 57 different flavours, when all we want is the Ketchup.
Honestly, I think if management is planning on keeping him (which I hope they do... 6'3 200 lb talented wingers do not grow on trees), I hope they gve him an off season work regimen to follow. Perhaps tell him to come to Montreal and work with the strength and conditioning coaches, to expand on leg work, as well as overall strength (That body definately could hold another 20 pounds of muscle, I know that it cannot be attained all this offseason, but it should be kept in mind).
Next year, new page. If he walks in to camp with an improved sense of the game, I would not cross out Benny's name in a top 6 role yet.
People can say what they like, with what happened to Pacthes at the hands of the Chara, we are very fortunate to have a player to Benny's ability still kicking around.
Frankly, I dont know the full story on the benching in the playoffs... What I do know is that Benny was none to pleased about it come off season... At least he had the right frame of mind about being benched, so it cannot be all that bad. Now we have to see how he can respond... Maybe, with a vengeance... Maybe nothing at all, but we WILL know his value early next year. That's for sure.
the problem with benny is between the ears. dumb penalties, and poor defensively. the few times he was promoted to a higher line, he bombed. and we all know martin doesn't ice defensive liabilities on his higher lines so in the meantime, he stays on the bottom 6 until he learns to play the game responsively. and he's actually quite cost-efficient when you think about it so i see no reason to dump him for scraps
Play him, play him, and play him again. Allow him to make mistakes, work on fixing them with the assistant coaches, and send him right back out. That's how you build confidence, not by pounding on the kids every chance you get. It's the same in all facets of life.
Will he make mistakes? Absolutely. Will he get the coach to pull his hair at times? Most likely. But what they've been doing with him certainly isn't working and the chance of reward are much higher if he has confidence in himself. That I'm convinced of.
Play him, play him, and play him again. Allow him to make mistakes, work on fixing them with the assistant coaches, and send him right back out. That's how you build confidence, not by pounding on the kids every chance you get. It's the same in all facets of life.
Will he make mistakes? Absolutely. Will he get the coach to pull his hair at times? Most likely. But what they've been doing with him certainly isn't working and the chance of reward are much higher if he has confidence in himself. That I'm convinced of.
Do you really believe they don't work with Pouliot? This isn't the Oilers or Leafs board. This is the Habs we're talking about, no room for "play him, play him, play him". He needs to earn his ice-time, games actually count for us. Don't forget, there are other young forwards on the team as well(Eller, Pyatt, Kostitsyn, Desharnais, Pacioretty, White). If he can't outplay any one of them, then what message does your "play him" motto send. What does it do for the others' confidence?
Jacques Martin is a very good coach, I don't know how you can think otherwise. Relax!
Do you really believe they don't work with Pouliot? This isn't the Oilers or Leafs board. This is the Habs we're talking about, no room for "play him, play him, play him". He needs to earn his ice-time, games actually count for us. Don't forget, there are other young forwards on the team as well(Eller, Pyatt, Kostitsyn, Desharnais, Pacioretty, White). If he can't outplay any one of them, then what message does your "play him" motto send. What does it do for the others' confidence?
Jacques Martin is a very good coach, I don't know how you can think otherwise. Relax!
So can you explain to us how Scott Gomez earned his 20 minutes per game this year?
Play him, play him, and play him again. Allow him to make mistakes, work on fixing them with the assistant coaches, and send him right back out. That's how you build confidence, not by pounding on the kids every chance you get. It's the same in all facets of life.
Will he make mistakes? Absolutely. Will he get the coach to pull his hair at times? Most likely. But what they've been doing with him certainly isn't working and the chance of reward are much higher if he has confidence in himself. That I'm convinced of.
He's been making the same mistakes for 6 years since being drafted. Do you not think coaches and asst coaches have been trying to fix the major flaws in his game all these years???
Jacques Martin is a very good coach, I don't know how you can think otherwise. Relax!
I know, I know... and Kostitsyn is the next coming of Ovechkin. I get it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price
He's been making the same mistakes for 6 years since being drafted. Do you not think coaches and asst coaches have been trying to fix the major flaws in his game all these years???
Funny the two standards between young players and veterans. Veterans make mistakes, that's okay. Young players, with little experience, those who are supposed to be making mistakes in learning the play at this level, don't get the same leeway.
So can you explain to us how Scott Gomez earned his 20 minutes per game this year?
don't get me wrong, he played like **** last season but the bottom line is, we have no one to replace him. and no, eller and desharnais were not an option
I know, I know... and Kostitsyn is the next coming of Ovechkin. I get it...
Funny the two standards between young players and veterans. Veterans make mistakes, that's okay. Young players, with little experience, those who are supposed to be making mistakes in learning the play at this level, don't get the same leeway.
Very true. Espescially not in Montreal. There is NO LEEWAY for young guys. Another thing I tire of in this management mix.
Pouliot being benched, and letting Moen play top 6 minutes is wrong. period.
Who is going to score the goals?
Gomez & Gionta just know that this is a problem. It's visual on the ice.
Gio hasnt passed the puck since god knows when. Gomez goes over the o-line and looks lost.
Somehow it always falls on the players, when it's the coaches job to maximize results. Not give up on a player 75+ games in to a season.
I dont know how many expect Benny to put up points, when he spent 1/2 the year playing less than 10 minutes a game. That makes no sense to me.
Just to give some an idea... The Leafs gave Grabo a chance to work the bugs out of his game. They didnt bench him, they just kept him going. This year, his game was better than BOTH the brothers we kept instead of him. That is how a coach instills confidence in his players. Continuous faith, until it's enough.
How much is enough? Well, that's for the GM to decide.
Totally agree, the reliance on mediocre, aging veterans blew up in our faces in that game seven when we had beer-league guys like Halpern and Darche wheezing and groaning, doing their best just to keep up while Pouliot, whose a young, strong, big man who plays mean against the Bruins, sat in the press box. Pure madness.
In a way, he's done well for the opportunities he's been given. In very limited ice time, in hardly no power play time, with 3rd and 4th line linemates, and with an incredibly short leash, he scored 17 goals. That's pretty good. He is an elite skater, has a cannon of a shot, is creative with the puck, has won a few fights and does get his fair share of hits.
But when he's bad, he's bad. His sissy balance issues, his awful turnovers and his perceived lack of effort/aggression/passion make him look worse than he really is. But, as many have said, it's all in his mind. If he can harness all of his skills and be confident, whatever his teammates and whatever his role, he could be amazing.
Personally, I'd give him one more year and I'd place him in a position to succeed. How about Eller - Pouliot - AK46? Give them 20 games together, 15 minutes a game, some PP time when they are really playing well and a bit longer leash.
I know, I know... and Kostitsyn is the next coming of Ovechkin. I get it...
Funny the two standards between young players and veterans. Veterans make mistakes, that's okay. Young players, with little experience, those who are supposed to be making mistakes in learning the play at this level, don't get the same leeway.
What veteran players are you talking about? Pouliot is our worst defensive forward and the one that makes the most turnovers in the neutral zone, he is also up there as the most inconsistant player on the team.
Not sure how he qualifies as a "young" player, he'll be 25 before opening night and has 5 pro years under his belt, we're not talking about a 20 year old right out of junior.
Totally agree, the reliance on mediocre, aging veterans blew up in our faces in that game seven when we had beer-league guys like Halpern and Darche wheezing and groaning, doing their best just to keep up while Pouliot, whose a young, strong, big man who plays mean against the Bruins, sat in the press box. Pure madness.
Pouliot was terrible the last 6 weeks and played himself into the press box, that's a dillusional post if I ever read one.
What veteran players are you talking about? Pouliot is our worst defensive forward and the one that makes the most turnovers in the neutral zone, he is also up there as the most inconsistant player on the team.
Not sure how he qualifies as a "young" player, he'll be 25 before opening night and has 5 pro years under his belt, we're not talking about a 20 year old right out of junior.
I think he's talking about the Vets who said they were going to pick up some slack... then didnt. (i.e. Gomez,Camm and perhaps Gio-but I definately would not fault Gio very much, other than his passing game was atrocious this year)
either way, from them even saying that and seeing the end results of said vets saying they were going to pick up the slack... Something never did add up there.
But I also qualify Pouliot as a young player. He has 5 pro years under his belt, he also spent the Wild portion of his contract (more or less) in the AHL because last year he was still waiver exempt. This past season, was his first FULL NHL season. No 1/2's no sending down to the AHL... Pouliot is a legitimate FT NHL'er as of last season.
I take it this summer is his birthday (based on your post) which means he didnt play 1 game in the NHL as a 25 year old.
I should also say that TURNING 25 and BEING 25 is a difference to me. Because like you, I do think that @ 25... a player should be getting their **** together.
Pouliot was terrible the last 6 weeks and played himself into the press box, that's a dillusional post if I ever read one.
He's not wrong.
Furthermore, it bothers me how condescending you are in your reply to his post, that is in reply to mine. There is no need to talk down to anyone. Like your opinion matters more than his... or anyone elses for that matter.
Bottom line, Pouliot did play well and tough against the B's this year. You dont get the best out of the young players from the Press Box.
Furthermore, it bothers me how condescending you are in your reply to his post, that is in reply to mine. There is no need to talk down to anyone. Like your opinion matters more than his... or anyone elses for that matter.
Bottom line, Pouliot did play well and tough against the B's this year. You dont get the best out of the young players from the Press Box.
You make it sound like they benched him at the first sign of struggles, which couldn't be further from the truth. He hadn't scored a goal since February 15th(over 2 months and 27 games) when he was scratched. You can say he is young and needs to play, but this isn't house league where everybody plays no matter how they suck, this is the NHL where you need results.
If he was a banger like White or strong defensively like Pyatt, then maybe you can live with him not scoring but Pouliot doesn't bring much to the party other than offense. Plus he was passed by other young players for ice time(Desharnais Weber Eller Pacioretty White Pyatt) because they put in better efforts.
Furthermore, it bothers me how condescending you are in your reply to his post, that is in reply to mine. There is no need to talk down to anyone. Like your opinion matters more than his... or anyone elses for that matter.
Bottom line, Pouliot did play well and tough against the B's this year. You dont get the best out of the young players from the Press Box.
So not scoring in 2+ months or 27 games is not justification for benching a player(especially when his calling card is offense)???
