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2011-12 Cam Fowler Discussion (Corsi Ratings Fail)

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Old
05-17-2011, 10:59 PM
  #26
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we got Fowler as an 18 year old, and he still contributed a lot of points in the regular season, and managed to rise up to what is expected of him in the playoffs.

i hope he wins a Norris sooner than later He wears the number 4 for a reason.

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05-17-2011, 11:28 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanconn View Post
we got Fowler as an 18 year old, and he still contributed a lot of points in the regular season, and managed to rise up to what is expected of him in the playoffs.

i hope he wins a Norris sooner than later He wears the number 4 for a reason.
A-J Niemi? Jamie Pushor? Aaron Ward?

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Old
05-18-2011, 12:17 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
A-J Niemi? Jamie Pushor? Aaron Ward?
your point? None of those guys have had the potential fowler had, and Fowler is wearing it for his parents and to honour Orr isn't he?

I'm not saying he has the type of potential to be the next Orr, but who better to emulate as a player?

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05-18-2011, 01:19 AM
  #29
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It took less than 27 for Niedermayer, didn`t it?
PS
Keith didn`t got it in 2 also.

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05-18-2011, 11:43 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanconn View Post
your point? None of those guys have had the potential fowler had, and Fowler is wearing it for his parents and to honour Orr isn't he?

I'm not saying he has the type of potential to be the next Orr, but who better to emulate as a player?
I had no point. It was a joke. I was pretending that Fowler wanted to emulate them instead of Orr. That's what the sarcasm smiley was for.

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06-13-2011, 05:51 PM
  #31
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Interesting article from the OC Register on Cam Fowler.

http://ducks.ocregister.com/2011/06/...owler-2/66747/

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Old
08-16-2011, 02:59 PM
  #32
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CORSI ratings, Cam Fowler

What do you guys make of this bash on Cam and CORSI ratings in general?
Cam Fowler Has The Worst Team And Zone Adjusted Corsi Rating

lots of Ducks on the raw list too:
Worst 20 Raw Corsi Ratings

Like any stat you have to take it with a grain of salt, but I think this does reflect the inability of any of our lines besides our top 1 (maybe 2) lines to much of anything (scoring or defending).

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08-16-2011, 03:10 PM
  #33
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I don't give a flying **** what his CORSI rating is, I've seen him play enough to know that he'll be a star in this league.

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08-16-2011, 03:11 PM
  #34
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Moen and Niedermayer on worst 20? I know they`re aged, but 07 wasn`t THAT far away.

I believe there is some truth in these ratings, but i think we shouldn`t forget that he`s only 19 and was placed in tough situations with bad partners.

He also was arguably our best defenceman in the playoffs.

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Old
08-16-2011, 03:44 PM
  #35
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You get the impression that the author of that article was faced with a bunch of numbers based on his stats method, and then created a narrative to fit the figures. Having watched Cam all year I don't feel that he was rushed or was unready, but you can certainly see how looking at some of his stats might suggest otherwise.

Upshot; stats will never be a substitute for getting your eyeballs on the player.

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Old
08-16-2011, 04:58 PM
  #36
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It's just proof that statistics, no matter how in depth they are never tell the true story, especially in regards to defensive ability.

That article is a complete joke. When the author says things like "Defensively he was a disaster" and "Fowler might develop into a solid NHL player one day but he isn’t close yet. He is a defensive nightmare who was unable to score consistently except on the power play" it makes you wonder if he's even seen Fowler play. The guy comes off sounding like a complete moron.

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Old
08-16-2011, 05:15 PM
  #37
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Interesting coincidence that some of those people on the raw list are the same people Fowler was playing with many nights.

And that narrative was a joke.

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08-16-2011, 06:20 PM
  #38
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Coming to conclusions based solely on stats, no matter how in depth the stats are, will generally make you seem like a total moron.

Fowler had trouble down low along the boards and in front of the net against more physical forwards, but he grew in leaps and bounds during the season and became somewhat competent in those areas towards the end. Like some one else said, he was also our best defender in the playoffs.

It's amazing to me how much grief he gets, from people who obviously don't have a clue. He was an 18/19 year old kid, in a teenagers body, with an outstanding hockey mind, playing 22+ minutes a game with scrub partners, who probably won't even be in the NHL next season and he still scored 40 pts in 76 games. Of course he needs to improve aspects of his game, what 19 year old doesn't, but to call him a defensive nightmare and not close to an able defender speaks volumes to that authors ignorance.

I guess Randy Carlyle doesn't know what a competent defender looks like, since he leaned on Fowler for 22+ minutes a game.

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08-16-2011, 07:15 PM
  #39
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Quote:
I guess Randy Carlyle doesn't know what a competent defender looks like, since he leaned on Fowler for 22+ minutes a game.
Good point, Carlyle's confidence should be about +300 CORSI points given his past as a great defenseman and coaching great defensemen.


Quote:
You get the impression that the author of that article was faced with a bunch of numbers based on his stats method, and then created a narrative to fit the figures. Having watched Cam all year I don't feel that he was rushed or was unready, but you can certainly see how looking at some of his stats might suggest otherwise.
I have a feeling the author does not watch a ton of ducks hockey - I watched nearly every game and RARELY was I cursing at Fowler for bad play, It was most always someone else (Brookbank, Lilja, Sutton, Mara, back checkers...)

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Old
08-16-2011, 11:01 PM
  #40
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Well done PuckStopsHere, welcome to my list of blocked websites!

What a load of dribble that article was, the fact he says Fowler isn't an NHL player and is terrible defensively shows he watched 0 of Fowler this season and just looks at stats, lol @ him saying we wasted a year of his ELC as well, yeah because it's not like he gets NHL experience or anything.

PuckStopsHere is a retard.

The fact he ignores comments about the article from non Ducks fans praising Fowler says it all about this guys credibility

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Old
08-16-2011, 11:51 PM
  #41
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Because shots against are meaningful with a team that plays a system encouraging a number of outside shots with a cycling system that doesn't produce many shots anyway.

Corsi for 2010-11

Fowler : -17.42
Sutton : -18.74
Lilja : - 19.64
Mara : -19.96

Pretty clear Fowler was the weak link.

Idiot.

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Old
08-17-2011, 12:08 AM
  #42
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Been saying defenseman don't play this system well for a while now. Not really news.

Not that I am agreeing with the article this tool probably rarely watched Fowler or any Ducks games..

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Old
08-17-2011, 12:56 AM
  #43
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That's a ****** statistic... it rewards teams who make random shots toward the net. Now everyone knows the phrase "just put pucks on net" but puck directed toward the net =/= more goals... there are so many other factors involved.

I'm gonna stick to writing the defenseman's name on a KFC chicken bone and throwing them at my cat and which ever one my cat carries off I will add a +2 to their point total and subtract their birthday and then divide by x^2, set it equal to y and then derive the equation. It'll be called the Ducky Rating.

I can't believe I wasted 30 minutes to try and figure out the ****ing equation for that **** just

The worst part is we just gave that ass hat so many hits on his website

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Old
08-17-2011, 01:45 AM
  #44
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I don't care, at all, really. When Fowler has the puck in our zone, he almost ALWAYS gets the puck safely out of the zone and usually to one of the forwards. He has tremendous hockey sense and vision. The only time he struggles is when he needs to get the puck from the opposition.

I'm sure he'll improve as he gets stronger and more experienced. I've noticed a lot of the hate is from teams that passed him up, but that shouldn't be surprising.

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08-17-2011, 02:26 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckaroosky View Post
That's a ****** statistic... it rewards teams who make random shots toward the net. Now everyone knows the phrase "just put pucks on net" but puck directed toward the net =/= more goals... there are so many other factors involved.

I'm gonna stick to writing the defenseman's name on a KFC chicken bone and throwing them at my cat and which ever one my cat carries off I will add a +2 to their point total and subtract their birthday and then divide by x^2, set it equal to y and then derive the equation. It'll be called the Ducky Rating.

I can't believe I wasted 30 minutes to try and figure out the ****ing equation for that **** just

The worst part is we just gave that ass hat so many hits on his website
+2 on the Ducky rating for this post

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Old
08-17-2011, 10:22 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazy View Post
I don't care, at all, really. When Fowler has the puck in our zone, he almost ALWAYS gets the puck safely out of the zone and usually to one of the forwards. He has tremendous hockey sense and vision. The only time he struggles is when he needs to get the puck from the opposition.

I'm sure he'll improve as he gets stronger and more experienced. I've noticed a lot of the hate is from teams that passed him up, but that shouldn't be surprising.
I`m sure a lot of teams after #12 would love to trade up to.

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Old
08-17-2011, 05:25 PM
  #47
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Also, when did 17 ES pts through 76 games become a bad total for a 19 year old defenseman? I guess Nik Lidstrom sucks because 39 of his 62 pts came on the PP. I'm sure he also didn't care to notice that Fowler rarely played with RPG at even strength.

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08-17-2011, 10:16 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Fever Dreams View Post
Also, when did 17 ES pts through 76 games become a bad total for a 19 year old defenseman? I guess Nik Lidstrom sucks because 39 of his 62 pts came on the PP. I'm sure he also didn't care to notice that Fowler rarely played with RPG at even strength.
Take your common sense out of here please, this is a strictly stats to make people look bad zone

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Old
08-18-2011, 04:07 PM
  #49
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It's crazy we even made the playoffs with 5 of the 8 worst players in the NHL...

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Old
08-18-2011, 05:42 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _h0sehead_ View Post
What do you guys make of this bash on Cam and CORSI ratings in general?
Cam Fowler Has The Worst Team And Zone Adjusted Corsi Rating

lots of Ducks on the raw list too:
Worst 20 Raw Corsi Ratings

Like any stat you have to take it with a grain of salt, but I think this does reflect the inability of any of our lines besides our top 1 (maybe 2) lines to much of anything (scoring or defending).
Ignoring the writer's amateurish descriptions of Fowler (even if he was that bad, a professional journalist wouldn't describe him like that)... The long list of adjustments made to the stats tells me pretty much all I need to know about the trusworthiness of the metric. First you take the "raw Corsi rating" which I seem to involve shots against vs shots for while you're on and off the ice. As it is that's complicated and removed from actual defense enough. Then they need to adjust for team and zone?

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