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4th liners the Rangers should now target

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Old
05-18-2011, 02:43 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
Why are we looking at 4th liners anyways? We have an abundance of bottom 6 forwards on our team and in the system.
Because just the idea of 'team toughness' is ********. Because Prust is a good middleweight and is overmatched against real heavyweights and if it came down to (for an example) him sending a message to the Islanders if we were getting cheapshot all over the ice some game he wouldn't very likely hold up too well against Gillies.

The point in any case is to get a guy who 1. at least approaches being a heavyweight 2. who can actually play and 3. is not going to cost a lot in terms of cap space.

Examples around the league--Lucic, Carkner, Neil, Rupp, Thornton, Erskine etc.--not all of whom are available.

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05-18-2011, 02:54 PM
  #77
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Personally for me id much rather have the enforcer be a forward. No need to rotate 5 dman for 5 mins. If Erskine is like Strudwick cab play forward I wouldn't mind. Much rather have a player who is more than a fighter like Wayne Simmonds, Ryan Clowe, Paul Gaustaud. Much rather have guys like that then a Chris Neil or a Cam Janssens.

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05-18-2011, 02:58 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Because just the idea of 'team toughness' is ********. Because Prust is a good middleweight and is overmatched against real heavyweights and if it came down to (for an example) him sending a message to the Islanders if we were getting cheapshot all over the ice some game he wouldn't very likely hold up too well against Gillies.

The point in any case is to get a guy who 1. at least approaches being a heavyweight 2. who can actually play and 3. is not going to cost a lot in terms of cap space.

Examples around the league--Lucic, Carkner, Neil, Rupp, Thornton, Erskine etc.--not all of whom are available.
Wow, mis-read that last thing. You listed guys and then I thought you said "all of whom are available"... I was thinking, really? Lucic? He's so much more than a 4th liner.. haha. Oh well.

I can understand that point of view for sure. I'd rather put that money into a serviceable D who can play that role though.

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05-18-2011, 03:25 PM
  #79
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We have a team full of 3rd and 4th liners now. Why should we ever target any from outside our organization? Give the guys from CT a shot. They are inexpensive.

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05-18-2011, 03:28 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
I'm not for wasting Boyle to the 4th line.
Clearly you have a very high opinion of Brian Boyle and that's great. With that in mind you should hope he makes the team next year; don't worry about what line he plays on. His second half numbers sucked and if he doesn't start winning more draws, he can easily be beaten out for that 4th line center role.

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05-18-2011, 03:34 PM
  #81
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If we could get Kenopka we should sign him and then trade Boyle when his value is highest. The faceoffs and toughness Kenopka brings are much more important than the shots Boyle would block. Boyle will be fortunate to score 8 goals next year if given a regular 4th line shift. Faceoffs and toughness; Kenopka!

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05-18-2011, 03:54 PM
  #82
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Im glad people are finally realizing what Boyle is..I was one of the only people during last season saying Boyle will only score about 8-10 goals next year..His second half was a joke scoring wise..Everyone drank the Brian Boyle kool aid..He is what he is,a gigantic soft player with limited offensive ability..He will be traded at the Draft..No way we give this guy 1m a year..



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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
If we could get Kenopka we should sign him and then trade Boyle when his value is highest. The faceoffs and toughness Kenopka brings are much more important than the shots Boyle would block. Boyle will be fortunate to score 8 goals next year if given a regular 4th line shift. Faceoffs and toughness; Kenopka!

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05-18-2011, 04:02 PM
  #83
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I'd like to see a more balanced attack and keep players like Prust and Boyle on the 4th line/PK. Add a player who is defensively responsible and can take regular shifts and I'd be happy.

Wolski-Richards-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan
Feds-EC-MZA
Avery-Boyle-Prust

Staal-Girardi
McD-Sauer
V-Tank/Gilroy/MDZ/Eminger

Not sure how it works cap wise or anything but I'm just using the board mentality that Dru will be bought out and we'll sign Richards. Not sure if that actually happens, but I like the set up. In addition, that 3rd and 4th line could be reversed and switched up as needed. Also, I'm not sure how the 3rd D pair will shake out but I'll wait to see how contracts/free agency looks before I start projecting that pair.

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Old
05-18-2011, 04:03 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Wow, mis-read that last thing. You listed guys and then I thought you said "all of whom are available"... I was thinking, really? Lucic? He's so much more than a 4th liner.. haha. Oh well.

I can understand that point of view for sure. I'd rather put that money into a serviceable D who can play that role though.
Sorry--just mentioning guys who can both play and fight. I like Ryan Clowe as well. Truthfully with Clowe/Lucic you don't want them fighting too much because thery're too skilled to be sitting in the penalty box all the time. Jamal Mayers--though he's a bit old right now. Konopka can play--though don't expect much in terms of point production. I see him as a middleweight as well but like Prust he'll fight anyone and two middleweights are better than one. Arron Asham--another good middleweight--again getting on a bit. Deryk Engelland--he's really tough and is okay as a bottom pairing defenseman.

It's obvious we've moved past the 'pure' goon stage--Orr, Brashear (who once could play), Boogaard. I think most of us here agree that we'd be better off with a guy who can take a regular shift even if he isn't the baddest mother****er out there.

Best case scenario might be Mike Rupp. He seems to knock in about 10 goals a year and half of them seem to be against us. If nothing else we won't have to worry about him ever getting another hat trick again.

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05-18-2011, 04:04 PM
  #85
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fill 2-3-4th lines via the system, fill top line via free agency/trades.

thats my philosophy for a team that will never be in the position to draft a top line player outside of getting very lucky.

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05-18-2011, 04:40 PM
  #86
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The Rangers lack team toughness. Dubi and Cally are talented and will mix it up but really should not be fighting or having to fight the Rupps or Gillies in the division. Prust is a willing guy but a pillow puncher that scares no one. The Rangers drafted very big and they are a yr or 2 away. I would like Boulton for 1 yr with a option

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05-18-2011, 04:59 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
The Rangers lack team toughness. Dubi and Cally are talented and will mix it up but really should not be fighting or having to fight the Rupps or Gillies in the division. Prust is a willing guy but a pillow puncher that scares no one. The Rangers drafted very big and they are a yr or 2 away. I would like Boulton for 1 yr with a option
as a rangers fan much rather have a younger player be an enforcer over a vet that is a year away from retirement. any enforcers that are young like 26-29 years old that are available like last year???

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05-18-2011, 05:02 PM
  #88
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I honestly was very happy having Feds - Boyle - Prust as our 4th line.

Now if you want to say we aren't going to resign Feds (which I highly disagree with) then you can probably replace him with an enforcer.

Ideally I would like to bring those 3 together again.

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05-18-2011, 05:10 PM
  #89
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Are people really claiming that last years team lacked toughness? Was this your first year as a rangers fan?

This was the toughest squad I've seen the rangers ice in a long time, and it had absolutely 0 to do with boogy...it was pure team toughness

Honestly, as far as my concerns for this team go, toughness is right between the color tape they use for their sticks and which gay glasses avery's going to wear in his roster photo

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05-18-2011, 06:34 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
Are people really claiming that last years team lacked toughness? Was this your first year as a rangers fan?

This was the toughest squad I've seen the rangers ice in a long time, and it had absolutely 0 to do with boogy...it was pure team toughness

Honestly, as far as my concerns for this team go, toughness is right between the color tape they use for their sticks and which gay glasses avery's going to wear in his roster photo
Depending on what your definition of tough is: Other than Prust the Rangers don't really have anyone who can throw down the gloves. Shotblocking fine. Throwing checks fine. Keeping Lundqvist from getting run over--not so good. Sending messages when other teams mess with the better players--not so good either. IMO Prust is a middleweight and not enough. What I'd like is for the Rangers to find someone to help in this area who can take a regular shift and won't cost us a lot of cap space. Not an Orr or a Boogaard.

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05-18-2011, 06:49 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Depending on what your definition of tough is: Other than Prust the Rangers don't really have anyone who can throw down the gloves. Shotblocking fine. Throwing checks fine. Keeping Lundqvist from getting run over--not so good. Sending messages when other teams mess with the better players--not so good either. IMO Prust is a middleweight and not enough. What I'd like is for the Rangers to find someone to help in this area who can take a regular shift and won't cost us a lot of cap space. Not an Orr or a Boogaard.
I love fighting as much as the next guy, but I'm not seeing the glaring need to engage other team's heavyweights in fights. I haven't seen a situation like we did few years ago when Brashear was out on the ice creating havoc and targeting every Ranger in site. You see less and less players in the league like the Brashear, Laraque, Worrell, Boogaard (r.i.p.) types. There's not as much of a need to have an "answer" to those types of players as there once was. I have to agree with the other poster above, this was one of the most physical and aggressive Ranger teams I can remember in a very long time. They went into the dirty areas of the ice, our defensemen got into opposing forwards faces when they hung out in the crease area, the team did not back down from skirmishes and scrums after whistles, and they stuck up for each other and created a team identity of toughness and solidarity. Rangers were ranked 1st in the league in hits.

Maybe you can find a heavyweight fighter who's not atrocious out on the ice, but at what cost? Maybe that roster spot is better served going to a player like Fedotenko who can contribute on the PK and in the offensive zone. Prust doesn't need to fight every guy who challenges him. I can't recall a situation this past season where we had to engage an opposing player in a fight to "send a message" or protect our guys. Earlier in the year when we played Philly, Boogaard was either a healthy scratch or he was injured, and Philly subsequently sat Shelley as a result. They obviously felt it would be a disadvantage to skate a player like Shelley in their line-up if we weren't doing the same on our end. I'm starting to favor that approach. Go with guys who can contribute on the ice first and foremost. Skating a heavyweight with limited hockey skills, can limit your depth up front in any given game. Can't roll 4 lines as easily and I think the Rangers in the coming years will have the depth to field 4 lines that can contribute in various ways out on the ice. I'd hate to see 2 forwards have their ice time drastically cut because one of their linemates doesn't have the conditioning or the defensive responsibility to play in Tortorella's uptempo/hard-skating system.

The more we have this conversation, it seems the shorter the list of 'acceptable candidates' is becoming. Not a lot of older guys still in the business. Seems a lot of the younger talent is more concerned about playing hockey than purely dropping the gloves. The league is changing. Unless there's an option out there willing to play for $700-900K max, I'm not sure I'm interested anymore.

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05-18-2011, 06:51 PM
  #92
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I honestly was very happy having Feds - Boyle - Prust as our 4th line.

Now if you want to say we aren't going to resign Feds (which I highly disagree with) then you can probably replace him with an enforcer.

Ideally I would like to bring those 3 together again.
I'd take Konopka if we could bring him in at an equal or lesser amount than Fedotenko. I think his faceoff ability is something we could desperately use. Even if we bring in Richards, we'd still be weak in that department with Anisimov/Stepan/Boyle.

I've also advocated trying Boyle on the wing. I think a fourth line of Boyle-Konopka-Prust could be very nice.

Konopka could take some of the heat off Prust, fighting middles and light-heavies.

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05-18-2011, 06:52 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
Are people really claiming that last years team lacked toughness? Was this your first year as a rangers fan?

This was the toughest squad I've seen the rangers ice in a long time, and it had absolutely 0 to do with boogy...it was pure team toughness

Honestly, as far as my concerns for this team go, toughness is right between the color tape they use for their sticks and which gay glasses avery's going to wear in his roster photo
I agree. The only people here doubting this teams "toughness" are the enforcer proponents. To them this team, or any other, is never really ever tough enough. I'd rather have effective bangers with a touch of a mean streak that will wear another team down. I can do without the staged fights and our goon dancing with their goon and it not having anything to do with what's going on in the game. When the enforcers don't have dancing partners they're neutralized for the most part.

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05-18-2011, 07:57 PM
  #94
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I would be happy with Konopka on the 4th line. The Rangers need help on face-offs, he will help. And he likes to drop the gloves and mix it up.

I would also be okay with Chris Neil who I think is an underrated player.

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05-18-2011, 08:53 PM
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I would also be okay with Chris Neil who I think is an underrated player.
He's under contract for another 2 years. Plus I think $2 mil cap hit is too much for a guy like Neil who's not going to bring that much of a different dynamic to the team.

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05-18-2011, 09:04 PM
  #96
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I woud sign Mike Rupp and trade a 2nd to Ottawa for Chris Neil. My bottom six would be Boyle, Prust & Hagelin as my checking line. Rupp, Neil & Avery as my 4th line. For $350K more Neil does more than Boogey could. The game is shifting away from the enforcer and these six can all play the game and 5 of them play the body well. That is waht you need on your bottom six in today's game.

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05-18-2011, 09:39 PM
  #97
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I woud sign Mike Rupp and trade a 2nd to Ottawa for Chris Neil. My bottom six would be Boyle, Prust & Hagelin as my checking line. Rupp, Neil & Avery as my 4th line. For $350K more Neil does more than Boogey could. The game is shifting away from the enforcer and these six can all play the game and 5 of them play the body well. That is waht you need on your bottom six in today's game.
A second for Chris Neil? Why on earth would you trade a second for a guy you want on your fourth line?

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05-18-2011, 09:54 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Depending on what your definition of tough is: Other than Prust the Rangers don't really have anyone who can throw down the gloves. Shotblocking fine. Throwing checks fine. Keeping Lundqvist from getting run over--not so good. Sending messages when other teams mess with the better players--not so good either. IMO Prust is a middleweight and not enough. What I'd like is for the Rangers to find someone to help in this area who can take a regular shift and won't cost us a lot of cap space. Not an Orr or a Boogaard.
My question is how many games did they lose as a result of not having a heavyweight as you describe?

By my count it was 0

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05-18-2011, 10:16 PM
  #99
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How about Carcillo from the Flyers?

Seems fans dont think he will be with the team coming opening night. I think he would be great for the rangers seeing as Avery might not be brought back and the league is not completely against carcillo (they may have an eye on him, but not their foot on his throat like they do with Avery). Kid could be a good pickup for us. Yes he is an agitator that has created a lot of bad blood on our team, but so did Lindros, McCarthy and others and that worked out OK
Carcillo does everything you want from a 4th liner except backcheck. No thanks.

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05-18-2011, 10:24 PM
  #100
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He actually plays on the 3rd line in OTT..
No way you give a second but I would do a 3rd.



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A second for Chris Neil? Why on earth would you trade a second for a guy you want on your fourth line?

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