You know nothing about the kind of person Jason is, so I'd be careful what you say there.
To the people talking about his lack of commitment (i.e breaking the Denver commitment, leaving school early, etc...) ... you really don't know ANYTHING about those situations and to say he's not committed is pretty close to the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Sometimes you have to put yourself first and do what's best for yourself.
He's a great kid who is ready to play in the NHL and deserves the opportunity to make a team out of camp and not get stuck in the AHL, like everyone seems to want to stick him.
Oh, and he never said he wasn't going to sign with the Isles. He said he wants to explore his options. Who can blame him with all the fwd prospects?
so that means your were ok with eric lindros forcing the nordique's hand landing him in philly?
and you would've been ok had tavares done the same (as the pre-draft rumor mill was suggesting)?
to me, what he is doing is no different than either of those scenarios...actions speak louder than words.
You know nothing about the kind of person Jason is, so I'd be careful what you say there.
To the people talking about his lack of commitment (i.e breaking the Denver commitment, leaving school early, etc...) ... you really don't know ANYTHING about those situations and to say he's not committed is pretty close to the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Sometimes you have to put yourself first and do what's best for yourself.
He's a great kid who is ready to play in the NHL and deserves the opportunity to make a team out of camp and not get stuck in the AHL, like everyone seems to want to stick him.
Oh, and he never said he wasn't going to sign with the Isles. He said he wants to explore his options. Who can blame him with all the fwd prospects?
We can only take what we see, and that's a pattern of ditching his team for the bigger, better deal. It's not a pattern I want to see in my team's players.
Obviously, there could be extenuating circumstances, (like Okposo and Ness leaving Minnesota) but when it happens more than once, it raises eyebrows.
And this just made me laugh (from a news article):
Quote:
Gregoire finishes his collegiate career with 109 points (57 goals, 52 assists) in 120 career games and his 15 career game-winning goals tie him for fourth all-time at UND with Brandon Bochenski.
So he commits to Denver, pulls out, goes to UND, pulls out, was drafted by the Islanders, essentially pulls out... Not liking the pattern.
Committing to Denver and pulling out I'll give you, but the other two, I don't really see as an issue. Lots of kids leave college before their senior year to go pro. When guys like Ness and Donovan signed in the past month I didn't hear anyone talking about how they were quitting on their teams or breaking some kind of commitment. And being drafted isn't a commitment a player makes. The Islanders knew full well this could happen, and as I recall didn't make any particular effort to sign him last summer. He doesn't really owe use anything.
I still hope we sign him, but I personally won't have any hard feelings if we're not what he decides is best for him. In the end, he both has every right and ought to make the decision that is best for him. And frankly, we should be happy that for once we have the winger depth that means that a) he might not view us as the best route to making the NHL and b) he is ultimately expendable.
Hopefully Gregoire does the right thing and signs with us. People are acting like we have "so much" depth on forward. Yeah in the NHL maybe.. But in the AHL not so much. In BPT we will only have Ullstrom, Dibo, Rakhshani, McNeely, Romano and likely Cizikas. And who's to say that Gregoire won't be the 1st forward called up, which he likely would. I don't see the harm of him spending at least one season in the AHL. Its so important to sign this kid, he's scored at every level he's played at so far.
Hopefully Gregoire does the right thing and signs with us. People are acting like we have "so much" depth on forward. Yeah in the NHL maybe.. But in the AHL not so much. In BPT we will only have Ullstrom, Dibo, Rakhshani, McNeely, Romano and likely Cizikas. And who's to say that Gregoire won't be the 1st forward called up, which he likely would. I don't see the harm of him spending at least one season in the AHL. Its so important to sign this kid, he's scored at every level he's played at so far.
I'd say that either scouts or his own agent have told him that there are teams out there that'd put him right into their NHL line-up.
I doubt making use of this loophole is solely to avoid AHL play.
This could end up being a shame for us. I really had hoped he could be a smarter Bergenheim for us at some point. I don't however think he's a better prospect than Rakhshani. I also think he'll ultimately be trumped by Lee, Cizikas and Ullstrom.
So...
Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 05-19-2011 at 08:13 AM.
I still hope we sign him, but I personally won't have any hard feelings if we're not what he decides is best for him. In the end, he both has every right and ought to make the decision that is best for him. And frankly, we should be happy that for once we have the winger depth that means that a) he might not view us as the best route to making the NHL and b) he is ultimately expendable.
Right. We've got to see this as the "cost" of Moulson and Grabner unexpectedly becoming 30 goal scorers. Still, I had really high hopes for Gregoire, as he had produced and won consistently. I thought he brings to the table much of what Comeau lacks (PK ability, hockey sense).
Honestly, I have a hard time seeing him come to the Isles. A guy like that could sign with a team that could use him almost immediately. For example, the Leafs or the Pens.
You know nothing about the kind of person Jason is, so I'd be careful what you say there.
To the people talking about his lack of commitment (i.e breaking the Denver commitment, leaving school early, etc...) ... you really don't know ANYTHING about those situations and to say he's not committed is pretty close to the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Sometimes you have to put yourself first and do what's best for yourself.
He's a great kid who is ready to play in the NHL and deserves the opportunity to make a team out of camp and not get stuck in the AHL, like everyone seems to want to stick him.
Oh, and he never said he wasn't going to sign with the Isles. He said he wants to explore his options. Who can blame him with all the fwd prospects?
You may want to check Gregoire's history. He appears to be a guy who needs a bit of seasoning when he goes to the next level. I don't see anything in his past that suggests he'll be able to make the jump from the NCAA directly to the NHL and earn the money he and his agent probably want.
BTW, he is within his rights to do what he's doing (putting himself first, as you put it). That doesn't mean we have to like it, and that doesn't mean it's the best thing for him in the long-term. Things have a funny way of coming around. Look at Blake Wheeler. He did the same thing to Phoenix, signed with Boston, and now he's on Atlanta which is the only team in worse shape than Phoenix. Gregoire may be a great kid, but great kids can make mistakes.
I'd say that either scouts or his own agent have told him that there are teams out there that'd put him right into their NHL line-up.
I doubt making use of this loophole is solely to avoid AHL play.
This could end up being a shame for us. I really had hoped he could be a smarter Bergenheim for us at some point. I don't however think he's a better prospect than Rakhshani. I also think he'll ultimately be trumped by Lee, Cizikas and Ullstrom.
So...
LoL I would say hes very much a better pro prospect then Rakhshani and awalys has been.
From Schlossman..Not only did Gregoire reach the 25-goal plateau, he did it despite missing seven games with a concussion. Where would Gregoire’s 0.71 goals per game rank among WCHA players in past years?
2010-11 — second (behind Frattin’s 0.82)
2009-10 — first
2008-09 — first
2007-08 — first
2006-07 — second (behind Duncan’s 0.72)
He's playing by the rules of the game established in the CBA.
I'm not gonna rag on him for that. It would be a stinkin' shame if we end up losing him. We have a lot of names in forward depth but all of them may not pan out and Gregoire just might be that one which does pan out. He is a talented kid and you have to give him as good a chance of succeding as any other highly rated forward in our system.
Like I said, it will suck if we lose the chance to develop him.
You may want to check Gregoire's history. He appears to be a guy who needs a bit of seasoning when he goes to the next level. I don't see anything in his past that suggests he'll be able to make the jump from the NCAA directly to the NHL and earn the money he and his agent probably want.
I'm a fan of Gregoire, I think he'll be a good NHL player, but there's no way he's ready for an NHL job. He lacks strength and foot-speed, mostly, to be effective in the NHL right away. If he signs with the Islanders, I'd expect a year like Rakhshani's last year, at best - maybe a look for a few games if all goes well.
The College game is not a great gauge for NHL hockey, especially not for a player who's 22 years old and hasn't played pro hockey yet.
I thought Gregoire was a better player than Frattin every year in College. Frattin had an incredible season and Gregoire was hurt, but I don't think EITHER is NHL ready. Bozak was probably better than BOTH those guys and he's having a pretty tough time getting prime minutes so let's temper expectations.
This is not so dramatic a situation as many of us are making this out to be.
LoL I would say hes very much a better pro prospect then Rakhshani and awalys has been.
From Schlossman..Not only did Gregoire reach the 25-goal plateau, he did it despite missing seven games with a concussion. Where would Gregoire’s 0.71 goals per game rank among WCHA players in past years?
2010-11 — second (behind Frattin’s 0.82)
2009-10 — first
2008-09 — first
2007-08 — first
2006-07 — second (behind Duncan’s 0.72)
yep, no doubt. better goal scorer. does that make him the better prospect tho?
I'm a fan of Gregoire, I think he'll be a good NHL player, but there's no way he's ready for an NHL job. He lacks strength and foot-speed, mostly, to be effective in the NHL right away. If he signs with the Islanders, I'd expect a year like Rakhshani's last year, at best - maybe a look for a few games if all goes well.
The College game is not a great gauge for NHL hockey, especially not for a player who's 22 years old and hasn't played pro hockey yet.
I thought Gregoire was a better player than Frattin every year in College. Frattin had an incredible season and Gregoire was hurt, but I don't think EITHER is NHL ready. Bozak was probably better than BOTH those guys and he's having a pretty tough time getting prime minutes so let's temper expectations.
This is not so dramatic a situation as many of us are making this out to be.
RB, I think Gregoire is anything but slow. His speed is not elite, but well better than average at the college level. I for one am not so cavalier as to not be unhappy that we lose a potential player. The more competition for roster spots the better, it brings the best to the top.
After Blake Wheeler refused to sign with the Coyotes they recieved the 35th pick as compensation, exactly 30 spots after where they originally chose Wheeler. Would the Islanders then recieve the 106th pick as compensation if Gregoire refuses to sign with us? If that is the case it would equate out to being a 4th round pick which would mean if Snow wanted to trade his right he could use that as a bargaining chip with other teams saying they have to give us something better then that.
After Blake Wheeler refused to sign with the Coyotes they recieved the 35th pick as compensation, exactly 30 spots after where they originally chose Wheeler. Would the Islanders then recieve the 106th pick as compensation if Gregoire refuses to sign with us? If that is the case it would equate out to being a 4th round pick which would mean if Snow wanted to trade his right he could use that as a bargaining chip with other teams saying they have to give us something better then that.
I could be wrong here but I think compensation picks are only for first rounders
I could be wrong here but I think compensation picks are only for first rounders
Correct.
It would be a shame to see Gregoire hit the open market. Let's hope we're not in a similar dilemma in 2 years with Anders Lee. Kessel could do the same thing as Gregoire is doing right now.
I could be wrong here but I think compensation picks are only for first rounders
I just read an article today and I can't for the life of me remember who wrote it (Islandernation or something like that???), but this article said we WOULD get a compensatory pick if he were to sign elsewhere.
Apparently, it's not only for 1st rounders, but for anyone who uses this loophole to sign elsewhere.
Of course, I can't be certain that their info is correct - but I hope it is.
I just read an article today and I can't for the life of me remember who wrote it (Islandernation or something like that???), but this article said we WOULD get a compensatory pick if he were to sign elsewhere.
Apparently, it's not only for 1st rounders, but for anyone who uses this loophole to sign elsewhere.
Of course, I can't be certain that their info is correct - but I hope it is.
I agree, why should a team be burned by a loophole like this? Either close it or provide a compensatory pick like int he Wheeler situation. Now I am worried about all the college picks we have in Lee, Nelson, Trivino.
I would be SHOCKED if Gregoire is with the Isles franchise. He seems like he is ready to bolt.
Right. We've got to see this as the "cost" of Moulson and Grabner unexpectedly becoming 30 goal scorers. Still, I had really high hopes for Gregoire, as he had produced and won consistently. I thought he brings to the table much of what Comeau lacks (PK ability, hockey sense).
Honestly, I have a hard time seeing him come to the Isles. A guy like that could sign with a team that could use him almost immediately. For example, the Leafs or the Pens.
Cheers,
Dan-o
Agreed, I will be a bit bummed if he signs elsewhere. But ultimately suspect that he'd be hardpressed to make the team out of camp would be his biggest motivational factor.
LoL I would say hes very much a better pro prospect then Rakhshani and awalys has been.
From Schlossman..Not only did Gregoire reach the 25-goal plateau, he did it despite missing seven games with a concussion. Where would Gregoire’s 0.71 goals per game rank among WCHA players in past years?
Even if he does prove to be better, it's only marginally. His production from a point standpoint was, on total, pretty similar to Rhett's over their first three respective NCAA seasons (Rhett with 101 in 115 games/ Jason with 109 in 120 games).
I'm not gonna bother worrying about WCHA in comparison to CCHA or who had better linemates, etc. Both have played for good programs.
Also, I'll wait to see if Jason can put up 62 points in 66 AHL games as a rookie before I buy a bit more into Gregoire's prospects as an offensive player.
At this point, Rakhshani does have the upper hand in the "what I've done to date" department.
Like other fans here, I'm conscribing to the belief that it'll be VERY hard to sign the kid once he hits UFA status, because even if they'd give him first rounder money, so too will likely more attractive NHL sites. If I'm Snow, I'd find out what Gregoire wants, where he'd most like to play, contact those teams and see if they'd meet his demands and then move him.
I suggested in another thread (or two, or three:-)) that maybe Snow could see if Detroit would take Nabokov, Gregoire and Joensuu for Ericsson and Hudler. Those are three assets that I think Detroit can and would like to work with (and who'd they be able to sign in Gregoire and Joensuu's cases) while certainly being much more affordable than Hudler (who seems to have worn out his welcome in DET) and Ericsson (who already turned down the 2 million per offer). At the same time, these two guys could each get a new lease on life and more responsibility in Islanderland.
I agree, why should a team be burned by a loophole like this? Either close it or provide a compensatory pick like int he Wheeler situation. Now I am worried about all the college picks we have in Lee, Nelson, Trivino.
I would be SHOCKED if Gregoire is with the Isles franchise. He seems like he is ready to bolt.
Well, if Trivino would want to do this, it'd have to come real soon. Same with Kessel.
I have no worries there because he hasn't had NEARLY the career that Gregoire has. He would have no leverage if he decided to do this.
You're right though - Lee and Nelson could seek that route at some point. I sure hope not.
NCAA:
Actually, seeing this situation and also having seen Okposo, Ness and Donovan come out early, while nothing has come of Rogers, Sims, and Day (not yet at least), I'm wondering if the Isles will already rethink their drafting policy with respect to upcoming NCAAers in the next draft??? Also, at this point, it sure as heck ain't looking like Clark or Rosen() are going to amount to much.
In general, I've felt the Isles enjoy taking kids they know are headed to college, mainly because it gives them so much more time to watch their development and make a decision on them.
I agree, why should a team be burned by a loophole like this? Either close it or provide a compensatory pick like int he Wheeler situation. Now I am worried about all the college picks we have in Lee, Nelson, Trivino.
I would be SHOCKED if Gregoire is with the Isles franchise. He seems like he is ready to bolt.
The provision in the CBA allows him (and other 4th year unsigned college draftees) to become FAs and sign with any other organization that gives them the best deal and chances. This stinks but it is one of the risks of the draft. When drafting a player, it is not known if he will go the college route, or if he does, that he will develop into a player there that you would very much want to sign. If that were the case, the next question is can you influence him to leave school early enough to not invoke the FA clause?
Perhaps Garth should be careful in drafting 1-3rd round guys who indicate they want to go the college route. If we wind up losing Gregoire and then also losing Lee and Nelson for the same dumb clause, it will be a it to our prospect pool.
The reson that Gregoire can go this route is that he has built up a market for himself by having played at a high level in college. As a 3rd round pick he wouldn't get much interest, but he has surpassed expectations. Now he can go to the team that gives him the best package and chance to make a roster.
) are going to amount to much.
