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News & Notes 2010-2011 III

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Old
05-19-2011, 11:39 AM
  #101
Millhaus
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
I dont think anyone can prove anything here beyond a shadow of a doubt, obviously. But I for one never categorized Eminger as a can't miss kid. Regardless of how he was developed and our perceptions, he has eeked out over 400 NHL games. He is still milling around, a regular in the NHL.

It just seems too convenient to pick out a 1st rounder with limited AHL time that is not a star, and say, see? The guy "rushed" that did well, oh him, well he didnt need the AHL time, obviously. All our debates are after the fact.

I seem to remember Eminger being overweight and maybe a fat cat of his time. And all the hail the king prospects bust all the time.

Maybe he was just a bad pick by George, all the time in Portland wouldnt have signficantly changed what he is today. He did get 100 games. Did he need 200?

It all comes back to George. Eminger is not going to be at the top of his resume. Either he was a bad pick at 12 or wasnt developed properly. No one can prove it was either.
Eminger's 103 AHL games is augmented by the 62 he played during the lockout when there was no NHL option so I don't know how accurate that number is when considering how the team would have developed him if that wasn't the case.

But honestly my issues with Eminger's development are pretty much completely about his first 2 years after being drafted. His first year he 'made' the team out of camp and spent more than the entire first half of the season in DC but only played 17 games, not because if injury either, and was then sent back to juniors. The next year he played the first half of the season in DC and then was sent down the AHL. I have very little doubt that if he had just been sent back to juniors right away after being drafted and then spent the entire next season in the AHL things would have worked out better for him.

IMO his first 2 years after being drafted is an excellent example of how not to develop a young player.

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05-19-2011, 12:09 PM
  #102
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I said the 'Hawks number 6 didn't play much of a role in them winning a cup. Sopel's 18+ minutes a game definitely were important. Hendry's 8? Not so much...

I think when you decide to take the shorter term hit and when not to is dependent on a lot of things. But in this case you have to look at it from the perspective of what they knew going into last season. No way can you look at the defense going into last season and say it is anywhere close to veteran and thus easily able to handle Alzner.

And yes I do think organizational depth played some part in the decision simply because outside of Green and Poti you could have written question marks of variable sizes next to every other guy's name. IMO any bit of veteran status a player had on that blueline carried more importance than it would in a group with a more established core. It is not like it was obvious when looking at that team in it's totality on paper that they were going to be the best team in the league in the regular season by a decent amount.

Again, it is much easier to look at things with the knowledge having seen 2 more regular seasons and 2 more playoff 'runs' brings but the call on the best way to handle Alzner and move the team as a whole forward needed to be made going into last season. It wasn't quite as clear back then how things were going to play out as what we know now...
Thanks for clarifying Chi.

As you remember, getting the vet cup winning Dman WAS included in the Alzner up.

Also, a lot of gap between prez trophy and a struggling to make playoffs.

Again... I expect management of anything to have more clarity and judgement than the average person and "less clear" isn't an answer.

I can appreciate your POV.

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05-19-2011, 12:11 PM
  #103
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....I have very little doubt that if he had just been sent back to juniors right away after being drafted and then spent the entire next season in the AHL things would have worked out better for him.
But not better for us!!!!

CARLSON!!

Agree with entire post

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05-19-2011, 12:19 PM
  #104
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But not better for us!!!!

CARLSON!!
Sure but I highly doubt McPhee's plan was to butcher Eminger's development so he could deal him and a 3rd down the road for a pick he could use to select Carlson.

If he can see the future that well then everything I said about him not knowing how things were going to play out with respect to the team, the playoffs, and getting Alzner more NHL time in preparation to be better in the playoffs this year goes out the window...

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05-19-2011, 12:22 PM
  #105
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About Dmen specifically development starts with playing. Not 25 TOI either. Stevens did just fine as our nervous 18 year old 6, logging bottom pair minutes behind Langway and Engblom. Be used in a role they are familiar with; keep it simple for them. Pair them with a vet preferrably, almost mandatory if they are having struggles or getting bullied, pair them with someone tough. Otherwise someone that compliments their game. Let them find their footing, their niche. Learn the NHL game, the speed, the tendencies. Learn the division wingers.

If in that environment they have their struggles, they need seasoning. It's all about trying and finding out. Only than can the player be at full peace with the demotion, and then knows what he must do to improve without even being told. Like so many things in life, getting a chance is often one of the more difficult things to overcome. Alzner faced a team stockpiled with LD; George's choice of hording D. He could be on that hording show.

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05-19-2011, 12:30 PM
  #106
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Sure but I highly doubt McPhee's plan was to butcher Eminger's development so he could deal him and a 3rd down the road for a pick he could use to select Carlson.

If he can see the future that well then everything I said about him not knowing how things were going to play out with respect to the team, the playoffs, and getting Alzner more NHL time in preparation to be better in the playoffs this year goes out the window...
Not saying it was the plan, just how it worked out in the end. Sometimes good things happen when things go wrong. Its no way to evaluate yourself though.

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05-19-2011, 12:41 PM
  #107
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Stevens did just fine as our nervous 18 year old 6, logging bottom pair minutes behind Langway and Engblom.
Stevens was a man at 18. Strength was not then nor would it ever be an issue with him. There haven't been many more physically ready to jump from juniors to the NHL than him in the history of the league. Using him as an example of 'well it worked for him so everyone should be handled the same way' isn't appreciating how incredibly unique of a physical specimen at 18 he was.

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05-19-2011, 12:46 PM
  #108
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Not saying it was the plan, just how it worked out in the end. Sometimes good things happen when things go wrong. Its no way to evaluate yourself though.
Oh he definitely made lemonade out of that lemon without a doubt. And I would guess he applied some of that knowledge to Alzner' development track, though clearly some feel he made a mistake there also.

Again I am incredibly happy with where Alzner is as a player right now. Could he have been better in the playoffs? Yeah. Do I feel his play is the reason they went out the way they did? No.

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Old
05-19-2011, 01:22 PM
  #109
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Stevens was a man at 18. Strength was not then nor would it ever be an issue with him. There haven't been many more physically ready to jump from juniors to the NHL than him in the history of the league. Using him as an example of 'well it worked for him so everyone should be handled the same way' isn't appreciating how incredibly unique of a physical specimen at 18 he was.
5'11" 190. Was he a work out freak in 1982? He sure added plenty of mass in the years after that.

Alzner was what, 6'2 205? Told me he wanted to lose weight and get down to 195.

I think in the grand scheme of discussing prospects developement, they had both filled out just fine. Brute strength wasnt Alzner's game, regardless.

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05-19-2011, 01:39 PM
  #110
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5'11" 190. Was he a work out freak in 1982? He sure added plenty of mass in the years after that.

Alzner was what, 6'2 205? Told me he wanted to lose weight and get down to 195.

I think in the grand scheme of discussing prospects developement, they had both filled out just fine. Brute strength wasnt Alzner's game, regardless.
I don't remember what Stevens' height and weight were his rookie season but he was exceedingly strong and even his HHOF biography says:

Quote:
Debuting that fall with the Capitals, the big, sturdy rearguard earned a regular spot with Washington, and so impressed that pundits that he was selected to the NHL's All-Rookie Team.
And I will say again, it is possible to lose weight and gain strength. People lose 10 lbs of fat and put on 5 lbs of muscle all the time.

Alzner has clearly gotten stronger over the last couple years and it has definitely resulted in him being a more effective player. If you disagree that is fine.

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05-19-2011, 02:38 PM
  #111
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I remember his listed H/W off the top of my head. I cant find it on the web though. He was certainly strong as a rookie, no doubt. But strength is not Alzner's game. It still isnt. It isnt needed in the NHL nearly as much as years past. Sarge didnt need it.

Here is a feat of strength. I remember Delorme as a tall rangy guy.


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Old
05-19-2011, 03:17 PM
  #112
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Holy crap Randy....thanks for that clip....Stevens was such a beast.

The franchise turned in the wrong direction when he was let go....

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05-19-2011, 08:17 PM
  #113
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so... thrash now definitely moving to winnipeg. interesting. shame, i guess. not really.

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05-19-2011, 08:26 PM
  #114
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TedStarkey: Pioneer Press out of St. Paul reports Columbus will slide into the Southeast next season, Minnesota to the Central, Winnipeg to Northwest.

Nashville makes more sense but that's better than keeping the division intact another year.

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05-19-2011, 08:29 PM
  #115
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Interested to see our division next year

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05-19-2011, 08:35 PM
  #116
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Allen, Burnside LeBrun & Dreger shoot down the report as premature. Still likely to happen, though.

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Old
05-19-2011, 08:37 PM
  #117
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Apparently the Thrashers deal is not final per the main hockey boards.

Let's see how this plays out.

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Old
05-19-2011, 08:38 PM
  #118
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Holy crap Randy....thanks for that clip....Stevens was such a beast.

The franchise turned in the wrong direction when he was let go....
What a huge mistake that was. 5 years 5 million. Pass, we would rather roll the dice with the draft picks. Which of course, if they pan out, you end up paying top dollar for all what, 5 of them. In the end, Poile saved money only if all the picks busted.

I am still pissed about that especially since he was my favorite player. And I imagine quite a few other caps fans as well. What a f'ing stud a total beast he was in his cap years. I loved how once a game he would catch a guy at the blue with their head down. And just smoke them. Always clean hits. Always. And usually end up in an odd man the other way. Our modern day step ups are worthless and weak.

I don't want to hear one of those picks turned out to be player X.

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05-19-2011, 09:41 PM
  #119
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I can still remember a young Stevens and a young Tocchet....wow....the wars those two would have.

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05-19-2011, 09:46 PM
  #120
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Sucks for Atlanta fans, first they lost Kovalchuck, than they lose the whole team...

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05-19-2011, 09:47 PM
  #121
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.

I am still pissed about that especially since he was my favorite player. And I imagine quite a few other caps fans as well. What a f'ing stud a total beast he was in his cap years. I loved how once a game he would catch a guy at the blue with their head down. And just smoke them. Always clean hits. Always. And usually end up in an odd man the other way. Our modern day step ups are worthless and weak.
SS is my all-time favorite player along with Gretzky. I'm not sure who my favorite goalie would be.

Giving Scott Stevens away was a colossal blunder. Scott *** Stevens. It's just what you said, RH. Every game he had at least one clean, devastating, el kabong hit. He flattened all-stars and pluggers alike. Fierce. If you ever want to know what fierce means watch his old games. His hits were a lot like Ovie's.

Remind me again why we like this team?

Thanks for posting the vid. That Canuck guy was a strong man, too. He was getting lit up and was still standing more or less.

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05-19-2011, 10:02 PM
  #122
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Looks like the Winnipeg Thrashers is official.

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Old
05-19-2011, 10:22 PM
  #123
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wow. all the effort dudley put into fielding a roster that would appeal to the atlanta demographic seems kind of funny now.

if that division restructuring goes down, it sucks for the wild too. they just picked up twelve more games against NSH, DET and CHI instead of EDM, CGY and COL.

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05-19-2011, 10:24 PM
  #124
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I don't want to hear one of those picks turned out to be player X.
I think it turned out to be Gonchar, Witt, garbage, garbage, garbage.

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05-19-2011, 10:25 PM
  #125
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They should just move everything into four divisions, with the top four teams in each division vying for the SC. I just want some way of being back with the PA and NYC teams.

Meh.

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