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Christian Thomas signs 3 year ELC

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05-19-2011, 12:28 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by I Love Rebecca Black View Post
Yea that's not happening this year. We aren't going into the season carrying 5 rookies on the team. While that is a nice idea in theory, in practicality Torts and Glen are going to want to keep/add some veteran presence.
I feel like a lot of people aren't getting that concept.

If we sign Richards, it's not to help develop the younger players over the next few seasons. It's because we think we can win now. And if we think we can win now, we're not going to allow all of our veterans to walk in the hopes that rookies can step in and perform. That's just not going to happen.

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05-19-2011, 12:28 PM
  #102
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Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik
X/Prospal/Wolski-Anisimov-Cally
Hagelin/Avery-Stepan-MZA
Feds-Boyle-Prust

Staal-Girardi
Sauer-McDonagh
MDZ-Valentenko/UFA vet.

Give me that team and i'm happy. Good veteran presence in Feds and B.Rich, possibly good vets in Vinny and a UFA, top line, core in place, shutdown defense with a hopefully capable PMD.

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05-19-2011, 12:30 PM
  #103
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I can't help but wonder if CT's emergence would also signal the end of MZA here in NY. MZA could always get shifted to LW I guess. MZA if he develops should be a better option than Avery and we're not likely keeping a Feds or prospal for another year so there's room for both. Guess MZA staying has everything to do with MZa developing more.

If they play well I couldn't care if the whole team was 5'5. But with our D (McI a possibility), boyle, Artie, Dubs, Kreider, grachev we won't exactly be lacking for size provided they all make the team within 2-3 years and we retain our guys which there's a fairly good possibility. Kreider, grachev,CT, MDZ, MZA, McI. A lot of high picks and tauted talents we'll be waiting for the next 2 years. In a perfect world they all at least meet expectation.
Last year names like Sauer, McD were on that list too and showed us why we've been more hopeful than usual. Can only hope those two continue to play the way they have and that the others similarly at least match expectation.

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05-19-2011, 12:34 PM
  #104
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Stepan
Sauer
McDonagh
Zuccarello
Grachev
Weise

All played for the Rangers this season.

Cap restraints are going to guarantee a handful of rookies and second year players on the roster.

If Kreider signs, they're not burying 6-3, 220 lbs, elite skater, with that skill in th AHL.

Thomas has two options, OHL or NHL.

Grachev had a very solid second half.

I can go deeper into it but it may not be worth it.

The point is, after extending the RFAs and hopefully signing Richards, there will be minimal cap space left. That means getting a Gagne, or someother UFA winger is out of the question.

Prospal can't handle full time duties anymore. Avery isn't consistent enough.

Neither of them are a first line caliber talent.

Nature of the business now. Want a high profile free agent? Then there needs to be young cheap roster fill ins.

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05-19-2011, 12:37 PM
  #105
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If Kreider signs, they're not burying 6-3, 220 lbs, elite skater, with that skill in th AHL
If he's not ready, he sure as hell will be in the AHL (hopefully getting top minutes.)

If it came down to it, i'd rather have proven Vinny P on the third line than an unproven rookie if they don't look great in camp, especially since Vinny can probably handle 3rd line minutes for many games as opposed to 1st and 2nd line minutes.

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05-19-2011, 12:41 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
If he's not ready, he sure as hell will be in the AHL (hopefully getting top minutes.)
I agree, while physical he's fully capable of NHL duty, the kid has gotten limited minutes at the college level thus far. Give him the chance to stretch his legs at the pro level with 1st line duty in the AHL for at least a half season.

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05-19-2011, 12:42 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Stepan
Sauer
McDonagh
Zuccarello
Grachev
Weise

All played for the Rangers this season.

Cap restraints are going to guarantee a handful of rookies and second year players on the roster.

If Kreider signs, they're not burying 6-3, 220 lbs, elite skater, with that skill in th AHL.

Thomas has two options, OHL or NHL.

Grachev had a very solid second half.

I can go deeper into it but it may not be worth it.

The point is, after extending the RFAs and hopefully signing Richards, there will be minimal cap space left. That means getting a Gagne, or someother UFA winger is out of the question.

Prospal can't handle full time duties anymore. Avery isn't consistent enough.

Neither of them are a first line caliber talent.

Nature of the business now. Want a high profile free agent? Then there needs to be young cheap roster fill ins.
Zuccarello played only a handful of games

Grachev and Weise barely had enough time up here to unpack their bags.

You're proposing we go a whole year with 5 rookies on the team, and plus the other people you mentioned who only have one year under their belt, that's simply preposterous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
If he's not ready, he sure as hell will be in the AHL (hopefully getting top minutes.)

If it came down to it, i'd rather have proven Vinny P on the third line than an unproven rookie if they don't look great in camp, especially since Vinny can probably handle 3rd line minutes for many games as opposed to 1st and 2nd line minutes.
Thomas can only play in the NHL or OHL. He can't play in the AHL until 2012-2013.

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05-19-2011, 12:44 PM
  #108
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Also if we sign Richards I don't think next year will be huge. It can be, but i'm going to temper my expectations. For the season after, with everyone getting acclimated with each other, I have high expectations.

After seeing MDZ this year I just dread thinking about Step or McDonagh going through a sophomore slump. I don't think Sauer will considering he's played pro in the AHL for years now.

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05-19-2011, 12:44 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I feel like a lot of people aren't getting that concept.

If we sign Richards, it's not to help develop the younger players over the next few seasons. It's because we think we can win now. And if we think we can win now, we're not going to allow all of our veterans to walk in the hopes that rookies can step in and perform. That's just not going to happen.
Wrong.

Getting Richards means they feel they can build a winner. It doesn't mean they will lock re door on young guys earning spots.

And furthermore, what high profile vets are they replacing?

Prospal? McCabe?

Cap space. Minimal cap space.

Wolski at 4 mil is gone if we sign Richards. And he's not much of a vet.

Fedotenko will be back. And Avery will be. But they're not going to take a top 6 role. Kreider, Thomas wouldn't be relegated to the fourth line.

The third D pair will have at least one rookie.

Again. Salary cap.

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05-19-2011, 12:45 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by I Love Rebecca Black View Post
Thomas can only play in the NHL or OHL. He can't play in the AHL until 2012-2013.
I was talking about Kreider. I would love for Thomas to DOMINATE and become Jeff Skinner but I don't see it happening and he plays one more year in juniors. Sadly a wasted year, I hate that rule.

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05-19-2011, 12:47 PM
  #111
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No I didn't.

I never once suggested they would be there the entire year.

And it doesn't matter how long Zuc sad other played. They still played.

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05-19-2011, 12:48 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I was talking about Kreider. I would love for Thomas to DOMINATE and become Jeff Skinner but I don't see it happening and he plays one more year in juniors. Sadly a wasted year, I hate that rule.
Why does Thomas need to DOMINATE to play in re NHL? He couldn't play well?

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05-19-2011, 12:51 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Why does Thomas need to DOMINATE to play in re NHL? He couldn't play well?
As a 19 year old his size? I personally don't think so.

Oh wait I see what you mean. I'm talking about training camp. I'd be happy if he ripped up training camp and pre-season to force Torts to give him a spot, I just don't see it happening.

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05-19-2011, 12:54 PM
  #114
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Stepan wasn't ready according to some.

McDonagh getting the call instead of Valentenko or Kundratek was lambasted.

The Rangers haven't been afraid to give a kid a shot, even if he's not 10000% ready.

Kreider's numbers and role at BC are NOT any indication of how ready he is. This has been discussed to death. Just like European prospects can't be judged by their numbers.

If he signs, and Tortorella likes him, he will play.

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05-19-2011, 12:57 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Stepan wasn't ready according to some.

McDonagh getting the call instead of Valentenko or Kundratek was lambasted.

The Rangers haven't been afraid to give a kid a shot, even if he's not 10000% ready.

Kreider's numbers and role at BC are NOT any indication of how ready he is. This has been discussed to death. Just like European prospects can't be judged by their numbers.

If he signs, and Tortorella likes him, he will play.
I thought Stepan was ready, but you're right. But the fact that it was debateable is a good thing. If we're having the same discussions about CT that we were about Stepan late in the pre-season that's a great thing, even if he doesn't make the team.

You're right, they're not afraid to give a kid a shot, but now we have a solid core and a crap load of bottom 6 guys in the pipeline. CT will have a lot of competition, more so than Steps had going for C.

I agree with you about Kreider too but I think you have to take into account his numbers. I don't think he's entirely ready for top 6 minutes in the NHL but he can very possibly make it in the bottom 6, but I just think a year in the AHL would be good for him to get him acclimated to the pro game.

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05-19-2011, 12:57 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
As a 19 year old his size? I personally don't think so.

Oh wait I see what you mean. I'm talking about training camp. I'd be happy if he ripped up training camp and pre-season to force Torts to give him a spot, I just don't see it happening.
I don't think he will rip it up right away regardless.

If he can contribute, give a consistent effort, and learn to cover his responsibilities...is that not enough from his rookie season?

Why does he have to be an all-star off the bat?

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05-19-2011, 12:59 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I thought Stepan was ready, but you're right. But the fact that it was debateable is a good thing. If we're having the same discussions about CT that we were about Stepan late in the pre-season that's a great thing, even if he doesn't make the team.

You're right, they're not afraid to give a kid a shot, but now we have a solid core and a crap load of bottom 6 guys in the pipeline. CT will have a lot of competition, more so than Steps had going for C.

I agree with you about Kreider too but I think you have to take into account his numbers. I don't think he's entirely ready for top 6 minutes in the NHL but he can very possibly make it in the bottom 6, but I just think a year in the AHL would be good for him to get him acclimated to the pro game.
Kreider may not be ready for top six minutes. And that's fine.

3rd line is fine.

The 1 LW spot will probably be a revolving door this season.

He wont be in the AHL a full season. If at all.

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05-19-2011, 01:09 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Wrong.

Getting Richards means they feel they can build a winner. It doesn't mean they will lock re door on young guys earning spots.

And furthermore, what high profile vets are they replacing?

Prospal? McCabe?

Cap space. Minimal cap space.

Wolski at 4 mil is gone if we sign Richards. And he's not much of a vet.

Fedotenko will be back. And Avery will be. But they're not going to take a top 6 role. Kreider, Thomas wouldn't be relegated to the fourth line.

The third D pair will have at least one rookie.

Again. Salary cap.
I said nothing about locking the door on younger players, and nothing about "high profile" vets. I'm talking primarily about Prospal, who I strongly suspect will be brought back if Richards is signed.

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05-19-2011, 01:40 PM
  #119
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If Kreider signs, they're not burying 6-3, 220 lbs, elite skater, with that skill in th AHL
Why do people say stuff like this? It's ridiculous.

I suppose you would say Sauer was buried in the AHL for 3 seasons.
Dubinsky was buried in the AHL for a season.
Callahan buried (up and down) for 2 seasons.
MZA and McD buried for half of last season.

This isn't a video game. Players don't have a stat number that absolutely dictates their ability. Heck, even the newer NHL games give prospects potential ratings for them to grow into over several seasons. The Rangers will put a 6-3, 220 lbs, elite skater, with his skill in the AHL so he can develop and become a better player. A player who otherwise would have made the team out of camp if he was already ready. You think he's going to get a roster spot just based on potential?

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05-19-2011, 01:45 PM
  #120
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That's fair.

But the same debate about a young guy being able to handle top six minutes can be made about Prospal.

I have no problem with Proapal, Fedotenko, and Avery being on the roster. But having all three in the lineup at the same time does nothing for us.

Prospal/Fedotenko. Richards. Gaborik
Dubinsky. Anisimov. Callahan
Kreider. Stepan. Thomas
Fedotenko/Avery. Boyle. Prust

Staal. Girardi
McDonagh. Sauer
X. X

You're not getting two vet imports on the third pair, either.

Young guys are going to fill spots.

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05-19-2011, 01:48 PM
  #121
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Anyone confirm this yet, other than CapGeek? CG is 100% reputable on this stuff, so I'll change the title, but I'm just curious.
not confirmation of the terms...but the rangers have official announced the signing

thenyrangers New York Rangers
#NYR sign 54-goal scorer Christian Thomas to first professional contract; read more and comment: http://cot.ag/iiXYx9
26 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

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05-19-2011, 01:50 PM
  #122
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Cool, thanks CM.

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05-19-2011, 02:10 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Stepan
Sauer
McDonagh
Zuccarello
Grachev
Weise

All played for the Rangers this season.

Cap restraints are going to guarantee a handful of rookies and second year players on the roster.
valid point on all those guys playing last year BUT how many of them were penciled into the lineup last may?

we didn't even know if stepan and mcdonagh would be signed...there is a chance that stepan would have (unfairly) started the year in hartford if drury didn't get hurt. many felt sauer only made the team out of camp because he needed waivers while others didn't...mcdonagh got a shot cause del zotto was terrible...newbury and weise called up due to injuries...

having 5 rookies throughout the season at different times is different than penciling them into the lineup in june.

and just because a player is young, that doesn't mean that they are cap friendly...mza has a cap hit that is double grachev & thomas, roughly triple hagelin. so despite being a rookie, mza could be forced out of the lineup by his cap hit.

lastly you also have to factor in how many players we have with limited experience? you can basically count on one hand the guys on the roster over the age of 30. its not like the old days when the lineup was filled with overaged players that should be replaced with kids...there are a few spots here and there but for the most part we are nearing the point where for a kid to make the lineup they will have to displace another kid and you hopefully are getting better, but not really getting any younger

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05-19-2011, 02:16 PM
  #124
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So now all we have to do is sign kreider, which im pretty confident will happen during the prospect camp. Imagine signing kreider and richards in the same week...Can you say christmas in july? That being said I am very excited about this because I really see Thomas as that scorer, I really think this kid could be the Jeff Skinner of 2011-2012, but my only worry is if 9 days is enough of a try out, I mean the isles ended up sending nino back down. I guess it all depends on how he does in the prospect camp and in training camp itself, I assume he wont be in traverse city then if hes in our camp. My hope is for him to be the next marty st louis, who is 5 ft 8, as im sure we all know. St. Louis had 40 points in his 1st full year in the league and just shot up from there. Skinner had 63 pts btw and is only 2 inches taller than thomas, but i think lacks the intensity/grit that thomas inherited from daddy.

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05-19-2011, 02:40 PM
  #125
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valid point on all those guys playing last year BUT how many of them were penciled into the lineup last may?

we didn't even know if stepan and mcdonagh would be signed...there is a chance that stepan would have (unfairly) started the year in hartford if drury didn't get hurt. many felt sauer only made the team out of camp because he needed waivers while others didn't...mcdonagh got a shot cause del zotto was terrible...newbury and weise called up due to injuries...

having 5 rookies throughout the season at different times is different than penciling them into the lineup in june.

and just because a player is young, that doesn't mean that they are cap friendly...mza has a cap hit that is double grachev & thomas, roughly triple hagelin. so despite being a rookie, mza could be forced out of the lineup by his cap hit.

lastly you also have to factor in how many players we have with limited experience? you can basically count on one hand the guys on the roster over the age of 30. its not like the old days when the lineup was filled with overaged players that should be replaced with kids...there are a few spots here and there but for the most part we are nearing the point where for a kid to make the lineup they will have to displace another kid and you hopefully are getting better, but not really getting any younger
Im thinking 3 rookies make it out of camp.

2 forwards, and 1 defenseman.

I agree about MZA and some of the young guys not being cap friendly.

That's why I keep saying a handful of rookies are going to play next year.

Kreider(assuming he signs), Thomas, Hagelin, Grachev, McIlrath, Valentenko, Kundratek would have manageable cap hits.

With the amount of cap space that's going to be locked into our RFAs, Lundqvist, Richards(assuming he signs), Gaborik, and Avery, its necessary to fill in with rookies.

All the top teams in the league that people like to reference and laud, this is what they do. They have their core locked in. They pick up a piece when its available, and they continue to plug with and develop young guys each year.

Having a handful of rookies wont prevent us from being a good team. And it will improve future seasons.

Lundqvist, Gaborik, Richards, Staal = your "elite" players

Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Stepan, Girardi, McDonagh, Sauer = your core middle guys

Prospal, Fedotenko, Avery, Biron = your veteran guys

Boyle, Prust, Eminger = your role players

Del Zotto, Kreider, Thomas, Grachev, McIlrath, Hagelin = your next wave you plug holes with

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