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Old
05-19-2011, 05:56 PM
  #101
Fumble
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JOEL ARMIA or bust

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05-19-2011, 08:27 PM
  #102
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I still think we trade the pick, likely for a top pairing defenceman.

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05-19-2011, 08:30 PM
  #103
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IMO if JR really wants one of the upper tier dmen he is going to have to trade up.

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05-19-2011, 08:31 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
I still think we trade the pick, likely for a top pairing defenceman.
I'd switch "top pairing defenseman" to "top 4 PMD under the age of 28." I really could see us trying to trade for a guy like Goligoski or Burns with that pick... I'd be all for it too, TBH...

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05-19-2011, 08:33 PM
  #105
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We would have to add.

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05-19-2011, 08:39 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
I'd switch "top pairing defenseman" to "top 4 PMD under the age of 28." I really could see us trying to trade for a guy like Goligoski or Burns with that pick... I'd be all for it too, TBH...
Burns is without a doubt a top pairing defenseman. It would take Dalpe+12th overall+something else

to get him in all honesty.

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05-19-2011, 10:20 PM
  #107
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I don't understand all this talk of taking a Dman in the 1st round, given that:
- JR in the past has said he'd never take a Dman in Round 1
- Canes already have 2 solid future NHL'ers for Defense in Faulk and Dumoulin
- Took 5 Defense last draft with 8 picks
- Asside from Dalpe don't know if any other Cane forward prospect is guaranteed to eventually make the Canes roster.

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05-28-2011, 09:43 PM
  #108
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Doesn't affect us all that much except that it'd basically solidify us having to deal with Larsson in-conference. Still very interesting though...

Quote:
Thats Jonathan Huberdeau, a 17-year-old forward who plays for the Saint Johns Sea Dogs of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League. He has led his team into the Memorial Cup Finals, set to begin Sunday.

Im hearing a lot more buzz that this is the kid the Avs might take at No. 2 if hes still available, that is. One high-ranking NHL person told me he believes Colorado will take him, in fact, based on what hes been hearing.
http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2011...che%3A+Blog%29

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05-29-2011, 01:43 AM
  #109
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Vagrant mentioned him earlier, but the more I read about him, the more I'm convinced Mark McNeill will be the pick. Seems like such a perfect fit for the type of player JR likes to draft.

Here's the scouting proflie:
Quote:
NHL Central Scouting’s Blair MacDonald
“One thing I like about him is that he's a right-handed center, which is good to have. He's really composed and has a real pro-style game. He has a nice touch, can dish, and has nice, soft passes. His on-ice awareness is very good and he's paid attention to detail at both ends of the rink. He has good defensive-zone coverage as well as being offensive at the other end. All around I think he's got a real solid game I think his offensive game will improve the older he gets and the more confident he gets. I think he'll be a better offensive player than he's showing right now. He's good at both ends of the rink. He comes down low and helps out defensively.”

Port McNeil GM Bruno Campese
“He's one of those kids that has the ability to do so many different things, he's got so much upside to him. ... He's a powerful skater and has great hockey sense. He's got very good basic skills and he's got the ability to be a real tough person to play against. He's got the mental capabilities to understand the game as well . . . I really believe he has all the attributes. He's got certain gifts that other players just don't have. That really bodes well for playing in the NHL.”
http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospect....htm?dpid=9437

Unless Murphy slips, I really don't see us taking a defenseman at 12. I'd encourage everyone to read up on him and watch some video, he really seems like a great fit.

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Old
05-29-2011, 06:48 AM
  #110
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Anybody wanting Armia? I'm not sure I do but he's an interesting player. He could be the next Finnish 40-45 goalscorer but then again, he may never get to NHL. I find him very inconsistent with his production but of course he was a 17 years old in men's pro-league. He could go anywhere from 8th to 22nd pick and I'm sure also Hurricanes have him in their lists.


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05-29-2011, 09:22 AM
  #111
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Out of all the realistic options, Armia is my second choice. Oleksiak being my first.

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05-29-2011, 11:02 AM
  #112
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Armia and Oleksiak are my top 2 based on what I've read and who I'm expecting to go before us. McNeill would be an intriguing option as well. Sounds like a slightly more offensively talented version of Sutter, not that Sutter is any slouch there himself.

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05-29-2011, 12:48 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Callahan View Post
Armia and Oleksiak are my top 2 based on what I've read and who I'm expecting to go before us. McNeill would be an intriguing option as well. Sounds like a slightly more offensively talented version of Sutter, not that Sutter is any slouch there himself.
McNeill also brings a good physical game, and is said to be a "powerful" skater. I haven't read of any flaws in his game, but some say he doesn't have the offensive potential to be a first line player. If he could fill the 2nd line Center hole for us, and a couple of our other forward prospects works out we'd have a pretty good foundation for our top 6. But, if we decide we want Dalpe to play center we might look elsewhere.

I like Armia as well. It will be interesting to see if we take him given the opportunity. I'd have to think we'll go for a "safer" option like McNeill though. Also, even though he is a Finn, I find it hard to believe JR would be okay with a foreign player as our 1st round pick. Although Chip seemed to think we liked Burmistrov a lot last year, but that's a little different since he played in the OHL.

As far as Oleksiak goes, JR's "we got bigger, and we got worse comment" makes me think we won't take him. Although, a 6'7" defender who can skate well is a nasty combination. I'd still say we go with a safer pick.

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05-29-2011, 12:49 PM
  #114
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Joel Armia reminds me of Osala in a few ways. Armia has a much better shot, but the foot speed is a concern for both players. Armia had a terrible U20 showing for Finland despite some flashes of physicality and that combined with his footwork will be the reason he likely slips into the teens. The inconsistency in his scoring is also somewhat troublesome but a professional schedule can be a hard one to play obviously.

With our recent experience with Osala, I don't know if we touch Armia. I know they are on two different levels in regards to scoring touch, but there are similarities there regarding skating stride and foot speed even down to the frame.

The problem with Oleksiak for me is that he turns like a boat. He has heavy feet in tight spaces and has trouble making adjustments to fast skaters going outside on him. He has decent to strong straight line speed for a player his size, but that quick shift adjustment is problematic. I think one of two things happens with Oleksiak. He either works incredibly hard to get quicker feet in which case he becomes a Chara like presence, or he modifies his game to a more positional style to account for his lack of foot speed and it takes away from his physical style as well as his offensive prowess.... which is questionable to start with. I don't know if his offensive skills translate into a guy that could eventually play on an NHL powerplay, but as always the rare combination of size and adequate puck handling ability has people drooling.

I will say this.... he's not half the skater that Tyler Myers is and was at this point in his career. Two different guys. Oleksiak does not have freak athleticism and where he goes will entirely depend upon how much work he's able to put into it. Chara had some of the same issues coming out.... as did Valabik. I think you get the idea.

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05-29-2011, 12:53 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
Joel Armia reminds me of Osala in a few ways. Armia has a much better shot, but the foot speed is a concern for both players. Armia had a terrible U20 showing for Finland despite some flashes of physicality and that combined with his footwork will be the reason he likely slips into the teens. The inconsistency in his scoring is also somewhat troublesome but a professional schedule can be a hard one to play obviously.

With our recent experience with Osala, I don't know if we touch Armia. I know they are on two different levels in regards to scoring touch, but there are similarities there regarding skating stride and foot speed even down to the frame.

The problem with Oleksiak for me is that he turns like a boat. He has heavy feet in tight spaces and has trouble making adjustments to fast skaters going outside on him. He has decent to strong straight line speed for a player his size, but that quick shift adjustment is problematic. I think one of two things happens with Oleksiak. He either works incredibly hard to get quicker feet in which case he becomes a Chara like presence, or he modifies his game to a more positional style to account for his lack of foot speed and it takes away from his physical style as well as his offensive prowess.... which is questionable to start with. I don't know if his offensive skills translate into a guy that could eventually play on an NHL powerplay, but as always the rare combination of size and adequate puck handling ability has people drooling.

I will say this.... he's not half the skater that Tyler Myers is and was at this point in his career. Two different guys. Oleksiak does not have freak athleticism and where he goes will entirely depend upon how much work he's able to put into it. Chara had some of the same issues coming out.... as did Valabik. I think you get the idea.
I agree that they're both high risk/high reward prospects, but I think we're at the stage where we need to take a risk and hope something pans out. The thing with drafting McNeill is he's not going to have a role here. Staal obviously is 1st line center long term. Dalpe looks very likely to develop into that #2, and Sutter is without question the 3rd line center here. Armia would look great on Staal's wing if he pans out and if Oleksiak pans out, then a top 4 of:

McBain-Oleksiak
Faulk-Dumoulin

looks absolutely disgusting down the line.

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Old
05-29-2011, 12:57 PM
  #116
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McNeill is also the rare RH pivot that a lot of teams covet. Speed concerns are drastically overstated in my estimation. He's a bull at both ends of the ice. The abundance of top end skill among forward prospects has seen McNeill bypassed in favor of slick skilled guys like the RNH, Couturier, Huberdeau, Strome, Bartschi class but in terms of projectability, he's higher than almost anybody in this draft in my opinion with the exception being Landeskog who I think will be an immediate contributor at the NHL level.

It's really odd when a kid puts up 81 points in 70 games on a pretty pedestrian PG club and it's not enough to move some people in regards to his offensive talent. He has the skills.

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05-29-2011, 01:00 PM
  #117
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My dream scenario would be trading up into Couturier range and nabbing him and converting him to a wing to play with Staal and Skinner in the future. That line would have a great combination of size, skill, and speed.

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05-29-2011, 01:06 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton the Great View Post
I agree that they're both high risk/high reward prospects, but I think we're at the stage where we need to take a risk and hope something pans out. The thing with drafting McNeill is he's not going to have a role here. Staal obviously is 1st line center long term. Dalpe looks very likely to develop into that #2, and Sutter is without question the 3rd line center here. Armia would look great on Staal's wing if he pans out and if Oleksiak pans out, then a top 4 of:

McBain-Oleksiak
Faulk-Dumoulin

looks absolutely disgusting down the line.
I may be alone in this, but I don't see Dalpe or Skinner as playing down the middle at the NHL level unless it's by necessity. They're more naturally suited to the wings in my estimation. Neither seem to have the faceoff ability and neither are center lane drivers. I like Skinner coming in off the LW a hell of a lot better than I liked him at center ice. You get a bit more time in regards to decision making on the W and Skinner seems to thrive with those extra snap seconds to think the play over or rag doll the puck for a while. If you put him back up the middle, you take that away from him. Dalpe isn't a player that likes to carry the puck at all. He's not as assertive as I would like to see down the middle either. He needs empty space and he doesn't have first forechecker tenacity nor the reach to do it positionally. Still very raw defensively too despite a pretty advanced offensive approach. Not entirely sure how he is on draws either.

To me, McNeill represents the perfect 2nd line center. He's not a Selke candidate and he's not an Art Ross candidate at even his highest projections, but he's safe to play Top 9 hockey in the NHL. He has a decisive first pass through the neutral zone and drives the center line with frequency. I would bet the farm on a 20-25 player in the future.

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05-29-2011, 01:11 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
McNeill is also the rare RH pivot that a lot of teams covet. Speed concerns are drastically overstated in my estimation. He's a bull at both ends of the ice. The abundance of top end skill among forward prospects has seen McNeill bypassed in favor of slick skilled guys like the RNH, Couturier, Huberdeau, Strome, Bartschi class but in terms of projectability, he's higher than almost anybody in this draft in my opinion with the exception being Landeskog who I think will be an immediate contributor at the NHL level.

It's really odd when a kid puts up 81 points in 70 games on a pretty pedestrian PG club and it's not enough to move some people in regards to his offensive talent. He has the skills.
The ability to step in right away is something I think we'll look for. Outside of Paradis, we've given our last few 1st rounders the chance to stick right out of the gate. Everything about McNeill seems to fit exactly what we'll be looking for. Also, I though I read something about Dalpe playing wing in the future, but I could be wrong.

Edit: Thanks for the Dalpe info, I remembered reading something about his skill set making him better suited to play wing in the NHL.


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05-29-2011, 01:23 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
I may be alone in this, but I don't see Dalpe or Skinner as playing down the middle at the NHL level unless it's by necessity. They're more naturally suited to the wings in my estimation. Neither seem to have the faceoff ability and neither are center lane drivers. I like Skinner coming in off the LW a hell of a lot better than I liked him at center ice. You get a bit more time in regards to decision making on the W and Skinner seems to thrive with those extra snap seconds to think the play over or rag doll the puck for a while. If you put him back up the middle, you take that away from him. Dalpe isn't a player that likes to carry the puck at all. He's not as assertive as I would like to see down the middle either. He needs empty space and he doesn't have first forechecker tenacity nor the reach to do it positionally. Still very raw defensively too despite a pretty advanced offensive approach. Not entirely sure how he is on draws either.

To me, McNeill represents the perfect 2nd line center. He's not a Selke candidate and he's not an Art Ross candidate at even his highest projections, but he's safe to play Top 9 hockey in the NHL. He has a decisive first pass through the neutral zone and drives the center line with frequency. I would bet the farm on a 20-25 player in the future.
So you're saying... essentially... Mike Fisher?

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05-29-2011, 01:33 PM
  #121
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I like Mark McNeill as well at our no. 12 spot if we go forward. In my opinion he reminds me of a Shawn Horcoff-like potential no. 2 center with some Brenden Morrow heart and hustle and toughness.


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05-29-2011, 01:34 PM
  #122
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Quote:
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So you're saying... essentially... Mike Fisher?
I think he'll have a bit more of a mean streak than Fisher. We're talking about a kid that wears 9 for Gordie Howe. He's a throwback, but as far as a basis for comparison goes I think it would be a good place to start.

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05-29-2011, 02:19 PM
  #123
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IMO you can never have enough quality centers. If you think this kid has the ability to play top 6 minutes at center then I would think the pick is a done deal if it were me. This kid strikes me as a pure center versus Dalpe and Skinner who can play center. Personally I would never pass on a quality center regardless of what ur roster looks like.

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05-29-2011, 02:24 PM
  #124
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But quite frankly, we need the player Armia or Oleksiak could be more than we need the player McNeill could be.

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05-29-2011, 02:53 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
I think he'll have a bit more of a mean streak than Fisher. We're talking about a kid that wears 9 for Gordie Howe. He's a throwback, but as far as a basis for comparison goes I think it would be a good place to start.
Best comparison I can come up with is Getzlaf-lite, although defensively there's a good chance he's on par. Not to speak in hyperbole, but the guy would be the perfect policeman presence for Skinner and Dalpe, while also being more then capable of putting up 60+ points a season. Sutter and Staal just don't have that nasty streak to them and while it was awesome to see Skinner get up and right after some guys this year, what would be better is a 6'3/210lber with a meanstreak doing it.

There are a lot of likely prospects at our spot I don't think we can go wrong with. We just need to hope they don't go with one of the ones they most definitely can go wrong with *coughcoughBiggscoughcough*


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