Tavares will never be elite because he's not a good skater. He's not fast, he's not especially strong. Elite goalscorers can't reach that statistical pinnacle without one of those two skating categories being elite also. He won't become a 40, 50 goalscorer ever. He won't make enough goals on his own.
ever hear of a guy named Wayne Gretzky? Never the fastest nor strongest, but was the smartest, quickest and
most talented shooter and playmaker ever...
The game is very different today, in fact the rules are even different. The lockout brought about many rule changes.
If anyone actually wants to dispute my theory on Tavares you have to find me a CURRENT player who is an elite goalscorer and ****** skater. But, I can save you some time and tell you that that player doesn't exist.
oh i see. sorry, i didn't realize there were so many specifics in comparing players for you to be able to prove your point
on a side note, can someone sticky this thread - i've never seen so many ranger fans come to the defense of an islander
Before he got lazy and stopped caring, Dany Heatley comes to mind.
Johnathan Cheechoo is another one, before he suffered those injuries.
Dany Heatley is 6-4 220. He is much stronger on the puck than Tavares.
Cheechoo is the best counterexample I've come across so far although I don't think he is enough to disprove it. There are a few points to be made. I'll start with the difference that Cheechoo is a winger while Tavares is a center. That leads me nicely into Cheechoo played with Joe Thornton who won the Hart Trophy the year Cheechoo went crazy and put up 56 goals. Thornton was the best player in the league that year, he was by far the best playmaking center in the league that year, of course he drastically inflated the numbers of his wingers. Sure you could say something like, "Tavares might someday play with a great playmaking winger." Which is true. However even the best playmaking winger isn't going to be as beneficial for his goal totals than Thornton was for Cheechoo. I think that's a fair statement.
So to be fair, I will add an amendment to my argument against Tavares being that he will never be an elite goalscorer unless he gets to somehow play with a truly ELITE playmaker, which is unlikely considering Tavares himself is a center.
He's 20, second season, playing with Matt Moulson and PA Parenteau. He pots 29 goals and 38 assists.
Where do you see his production going from here? Has he maxed out his production his second year in the league, playing with less than exceptional talent?
You really think it's inconceivable that this kid--due to nothing more than his own development as a player--could add another 10 goals to his game? Far from inconceivable, I think it's a near-certainty that he does.
That, to me, seems like a huge stretch. He's already a wonderful player at twenty years of age, and has nowhere to go but up.
Dany Heatley is 6-4 220. He is much stronger on the puck than Tavares.
Dany Heatley isn't really known for his strength despite his size. He's a guy who just knows how to get open and finish when he gets the puck. He used to be one of the best at it.
Quote:
Cheechoo is the best counterexample I've come across so far although I don't think he is enough to disprove it. There are a few points to be made. I'll start with the difference that Cheechoo is a winger while Tavares is a center. That leads me nicely into Cheechoo played with Joe Thornton who won the Hart Trophy the year Cheechoo went crazy and put up 56 goals. Thornton was the best player in the league that year, he was by far the best playmaking center in the league that year, of course he drastically inflated the numbers of his wingers. Sure you could say something like, "Tavares might someday play with a great playmaking winger." Which is true. However even the best playmaking winger isn't going to be as beneficial for his goal totals than Thornton was for Cheechoo. I think that's a fair statement.
So to be fair, I will add an amendment to my argument against Tavares being that he will never be an elite goalscorer unless he gets to somehow play with a truly ELITE playmaker, which is unlikely considering Tavares himself is a center.
Seriously dude, I think you need to take off your homer glasses, you're really stretching in you're argument. As mentioned before, Tavaras has already put up excellent numbers playing with a 2nd/3rd line tweener and an AHL-level player, and he's still improving. It's going to be scary what he will become in a couple of years, very few have the goal-scoring instincts that he has.
Tavares will never be elite because he's not a good skater. He's not fast, he's not especially strong. Elite goalscorers can't reach that statistical pinnacle without one of those two skating categories being elite also. He won't become a 40, 50 goalscorer ever. He won't make enough goals on his own.
So 2012 is going to be a great draft. Nice. Just frikkin great. We FINALLY get ourselves a TRUE Number 1C/Playmaker AND a 40+ goalscorer and the following year there is crosbies, ovechkins ect ect in the draft. We will probably draft 25th overall!
LOL
Rangers have NO LUCK even when they DO HAVE LUCK.
Anyone want to tank the season and get ourselves a bonafide young kid?
So 2012 is going to be a great draft. Nice. Just frikkin great. We FINALLY get ourselves a TRUE Number 1C/Playmaker AND a 40+ goalscorer and the following year there is crosbies, ovechkins ect ect in the draft. We will probably draft 25th overall!
LOL
Rangers have NO LUCK even when they DO HAVE LUCK.
Anyone want to tank the season and get ourselves a bonafide young kid?
So 2012 is going to be a great draft. Nice. Just frikkin great. We FINALLY get ourselves a TRUE Number 1C/Playmaker AND a 40+ goalscorer and the following year there is crosbies, ovechkins ect ect in the draft. We will probably draft 25th overall!
LOL
Rangers have NO LUCK even when they DO HAVE LUCK.
Anyone want to tank the season and get ourselves a bonafide young kid?
:*(
I think we should call up the oilers and ask what they'd want for their 2012 first . I would trade our 11' first for their 12' first in a heart beat.
And thats not being cocky. Dallas his first love has major ownership issues and he wont know what type of team he will be playing with for years.
St. Louis where he won the cup does not have the Cap Room for him.
Los Angeles has a decent shot
Toronot has a decent shot.
The end all be all is Tort's. Brad knows what to expect when it comes to Torts. He knows Cablevision will spend WHATEVER it takes to get him AND other talent.
Brad see the good defense we have AND THE ALL WORLD GOALIE. You really cant count out the Rangers by ANY MEANS. If we are overvaluing tort's relationship with Brad than MAYBE he signs somewhere else. But I doubt it.
You can say I am crazy and what not. But July 1st (I really think it will be July 2 or 3rd after he listens to all offers) you can come back to this post and either laugh me off the boards, or realize I wasnt being overly cocky. It just makes sense.
Yeah, he's definitely not a perimeter guy. Reading statements like that makes you wonder if some of these people have actually seen him play outside of games against us. Tavares makes his living in the dirty areas.
Yeah, he's definitely not a perimeter guy. Reading statements like that makes you wonder if some of these people have actually seen him play outside of games against us. Tavares makes his living in the dirty areas.
NO! HES A PERIMETER PLAYER WHO LIVES AND DIES WITH HIS SHOT. HEATLEY IS BETTER CUZ HEATLEY IS BIGGER AND TOUGHER. TAVARES IS A 2ND LINE WINGER ON A GOOD TEAM NOW AND IN THE FUTURE!
And thats not being cocky. Dallas his first love has major ownership issues and he wont know what type of team he will be playing with for years.
St. Louis where he won the cup does not have the Cap Room for him.
Los Angeles has a decent shot
Toronot has a decent shot.
The end all be all is Tort's. Brad knows what to expect when it comes to Torts. He knows Cablevision will spend WHATEVER it takes to get him AND other talent.
Brad see the good defense we have AND THE ALL WORLD GOALIE. You really cant count out the Rangers by ANY MEANS. If we are overvaluing tort's relationship with Brad than MAYBE he signs somewhere else. But I doubt it.
You can say I am crazy and what not. But July 1st (I really think it will be July 2 or 3rd after he listens to all offers) you can come back to this post and either laugh me off the boards, or realize I wasnt being overly cocky. It just makes sense.
I am guessing by St. Louis you mean Tampa Bay? Well here is the truth about Tampa, they have a lot of cap space next season. In excess of 25m with only Stamkos receiving a huge raise. They could fit Richards rather easily.
I am guessing by St. Louis you mean Tampa Bay? Well here is the truth about Tampa, they have a lot of cap space next season. In excess of 25m with only Stamkos receiving a huge raise. They could fit Richards rather easily.
True, but they have 0 goalies, 7 forwards and 4 dmen under contract. Thats a lot of holes to fill.
. I would trade our 11' first for their 12' first in a heart beat.
