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2011 NHL Entry Draft/Other Prospects (All NON-RANGERS Prospect Discussion - Part 3) ‎

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Old
05-22-2011, 10:18 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
our defense is not elite for the next for 15 years. we got one great dman and 3 good ones. a lot of teams can boast that.
We have one elite d-man and 3 top 4 d-men.

Compared to our offense, we're set.

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05-22-2011, 10:20 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
our defense is not elite for the next for 15 years. we got one great dman and 3 good ones. a lot of teams can boast that.
The defense isn't necessarily "set", but it's good enough to justify need over the notion of "BPA", especially in a draft where picks 10-25 are all so close in talent.

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05-22-2011, 10:21 PM
  #178
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How far up in the draft could we move by trading the 15th and 57th? Basically to try and secure McNeill

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05-22-2011, 10:22 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
our defense is not elite for the next for 15 years. we got one great dman and 3 good ones. a lot of teams can boast that.
It doesn't have to be elite. In fact it can still develop into an elite group by the time all of our prospects develop.

A lot of teams can boast they have 1 great dman and 3 good ones but not a lot of them can boast that they are always near the top in lowest goals for.

Sorry but drafting another d-man to push our d core from above average to elite when we clearly have other pressing issues is pointless imo.

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05-22-2011, 10:24 PM
  #180
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BPA...if it happens to be a dman and we then have extra dmen that means later you can package guys together to get the forward you need.

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05-22-2011, 10:25 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by I Love Rebecca Black View Post
It doesn't have to be elite. In fact it can still develop into an elite group by the time all of our prospects develop.

A lot of teams can boast they have 1 great dman and 3 good ones but not a lot of them can boast that they are always near the top in lowest goals for.

Sorry but drafting another d-man to push our d core from above average to elite when we clearly have other pressing issues is pointless imo.
if a player like murphy fell to us and we drafted a forward, with most likely mcneill, scheifele, and zibanajad not available i'd be pretty pissed off.

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05-22-2011, 10:28 PM
  #182
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I'm sorry but I feel that drafting a d-man just because he is the BPA with the expectation that we will trade one of our dmen in the future isn't a good drafting plan.

You draft based on need, unless the BPA is so far and above your need that you have no choice but to take them.

Sorry taking a d-man with the expecatation of a future trade is not something I'd be happy about. I want them to draft to fill a need.

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05-22-2011, 10:28 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by I Love Rebecca Black View Post
It doesn't have to be elite. In fact it can still develop into an elite group by the time all of our prospects develop.

A lot of teams can boast they have 1 great dman and 3 good ones but not a lot of them can boast that they are always near the top in lowest goals for.

Sorry but drafting another d-man to push our d core from above average to elite when we clearly have other pressing issues is pointless imo.
If Murphy drops to 11 ala puckmover Ryan Ellis in 2009, I will be very happy if Rangers try to trade up and get him.

A defenseman with an ounce of offensive skill is a pressing issue. Staal, Sauer, Girardi, McDonagh is an skill challenged unit no matter how you slice it.

If we trade up and go for a bruiser or shutdown, then you have a point.

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05-22-2011, 10:29 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by I Love Rebecca Black View Post
It doesn't have to be elite. In fact it can still develop into an elite group by the time all of our prospects develop.

A lot of teams can boast they have 1 great dman and 3 good ones but not a lot of them can boast that they are always near the top in lowest goals for.

Sorry but drafting another d-man to push our d core from above average to elite when we clearly have other pressing issues is pointless imo.
you are looking at it in terms of picking an elite forward or an elite dman...but what if, hypothetically, the first 13 of 14 picks are forwards and when we pick either larsson or murphy are still on the board. do you really think that it would be better to take the 14th best forward who is likely not a future 1st line player?

all things being equal we need a forward, but that doesn't mean that come pick 15 that will be the smart move

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05-22-2011, 10:34 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
If Murphy drops to 11 ala puckmover Ryan Ellis in 2009, I will be very happy if Rangers try to trade up and get him.

A defenseman with an ounce of offensive skill is a pressing issue. Staal, Sauer, Girardi, McDonagh is an skill challenged unit no matter how you slice it.

If we trade up and go for a bruiser or shutdown, then you have a point.
I agree with this, although McDonagh certainly has some offensive potential.

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05-22-2011, 10:35 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
you are looking at it in terms of picking an elite forward or an elite dman...but what if, hypothetically, the first 13 of 14 picks are forwards and when we pick either larsson or murphy are still on the board. do you really think that it would be better to take the 14th best forward who is likely not a future 1st line player?

all things being equal we need a forward, but that doesn't mean that come pick 15 that will be the smart move
But that's why I was saying unless the BPA (a d-man) is so far and above the best available forward then all things being equal you choose a forward.

In your hypothetical situation you obviously choose one of the d-man but that's because they are so far and above the best available forwards.

However the d-men that are expected to be around when the Rangers picks aren't going to be that far and above the fowards available and unless a franchise defensemen drops to us there is no reason to pick another imo.

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05-22-2011, 10:39 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by I Love Rebecca Black View Post
I'm sorry but I feel that drafting a d-man just because he is the BPA with the expectation that we will trade one of our dmen in the future isn't a good drafting plan.

You draft based on need, unless the BPA is so far and above your need that you have no choice but to take them.

Sorry taking a d-man with the expecatation of a future trade is not something I'd be happy about. I want them to draft to fill a need.
you do NOT draft based on need, drafting based on need is by far the worst and stupidest thing a team can do.

most players outside of the top few don't step in as 18 year old rookies, most picks take a couple years to develop before they reach the nhl. well your needs today might not be the same as your needs in 4 years...

where would we be today if we passed on lundqvist because we already had blackburn and goaltending wasn't a 'need'??

we have 4 dmen in the nhl right now, besides that 1 of them could get hurt, or look for a big raise and be forced out by the cap. but that means there are still 2 spots open. what if del zotto never finds his game? what if mcilrath turns into a bust? what if valentenko can't hack it?

if you have 2 equal players and you want to use 'need' as the tie breaker thats fine, but you don't take a lesser player cause it fills a need that may or maybe not be there in 4 years.

and don't get me wrong, outside of the top guys falling into our laps where you can't pass them up, i'll be pissed if we take a dman but if the dman is alot better than you take him

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05-22-2011, 10:46 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by I Love Rebecca Black
But that's why I was saying unless the BPA (a d-man) is so far and above the best available forward then all things being equal you choose a forward.

In your hypothetical situation you obviously choose one of the d-man but that's because they are so far and above the best available forwards.

However the d-men that are expected to be around when the Rangers picks aren't going to be that far and above the fowards available and unless a franchise defensemen drops to us there is no reason to pick another imo.
not sure why quote isn't working...but i guess we agree with each other afterall LOL

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05-22-2011, 10:48 PM
  #189
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Yea that's what I was saying.

All things being equal you pick based on need.

But you don't pick a lesser player to fill a need.

If someone that is supposed to be elite falls to us at 15 and it's a d-man then you make that pick. But if you really can't tell the difference between the d-men available and the forwards available you pick based on your need because you don't have an idea how quickly they can develop.

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05-22-2011, 10:53 PM
  #190
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http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=915528

So, whatta ya think? I feel like I got the best forward left on the board. Brodin was considered but I have him rated pretty even with Scheifele.

Notice Klefbom going pretty high in this mock? If he goes ahead of our pick, a very good forward will fall to us. Same with Brodin.

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05-22-2011, 10:54 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=915528

So, whatta ya think? I feel like I got the best forward left on the board. Brodin was considered but I have him rated pretty even with Scheifele.

Notice Klefbom going pretty high in this mock? If he goes ahead of our pick, a very good forward will fall to us. Same with Brodin.
EDIT:

I would be okay with that, but I'd prefer Armia.


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05-22-2011, 11:14 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=915528

So, whatta ya think? I feel like I got the best forward left on the board. Brodin was considered but I have him rated pretty even with Scheifele.

Notice Klefbom going pretty high in this mock? If he goes ahead of our pick, a very good forward will fall to us. Same with Brodin.
That would make me a very happy draftnik.

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05-22-2011, 11:18 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=915528

So, whatta ya think? I feel like I got the best forward left on the board. Brodin was considered but I have him rated pretty even with Scheifele.

Notice Klefbom going pretty high in this mock? If he goes ahead of our pick, a very good forward will fall to us. Same with Brodin.
I love it, I hope that happens on draft day. Scheifele is the 7th rated forward on my board (RNH/Landeskog/Couturier/Huberdea/Strome/Zibanejad).

To your point if Klefbom/Oleksiak go ahead of us we almost certainly have to get a crack at a great forward....but who knows, I thought the same thing last year. It is not likely but it would also not shock me in the least for Beaulieu and Siemens to be around at #15.

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05-22-2011, 11:26 PM
  #194
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Armia would be the best pick at that point, IMO.
Hey, I'm not gonna lie, it was close between Scheifele, Armia and Brodin. I'm not 100% sold on Armia, even though I WANT to be

I like the overall skillset I see from Scheifele and think his upside was the best out of all the forwards remaining.

Plus last year I took Granlund and Pulkkinen with our first two picks, don't want to come off like I have a Finnish fetish ! (whoa, say THAT five times fast)

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05-22-2011, 11:30 PM
  #195
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I love it, I hope that happens on draft day. Scheifele is the 7th rated forward on my board (RNH/Landeskog/Couturier/Huberdea/Strome/Zibanejad).

To your point if Klefbom/Oleksiak go ahead of us we almost certainly have to get a crack at a great forward....but who knows, I thought the same thing last year. It is not likely but it would also not shock me in the least for Beaulieu and Siemens to be around at #15.
Good call on Oleksiak, I'd be shocked if he made it to 15. Klefbom, Beaulieu, Siemens, Brodin all have achance to go from 9-15. 'After last year', I keep finding myself saying that too

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05-22-2011, 11:37 PM
  #196
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I must have missed why. Is there a reason Strome is falling?

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05-22-2011, 11:43 PM
  #197
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I must have missed why. Is there a reason Strome is falling?
I think its possible he goes #10, which is not a very far fall from say #7 where most are projecting him to go.

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05-22-2011, 11:48 PM
  #198
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I must have missed why. Is there a reason Strome is falling?
He won't fall past 7 or 8, if even that low, when the real thing goes down.

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05-22-2011, 11:50 PM
  #199
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I think its possible he goes #10, which is not a very far fall from say #7 where most are projecting him to go.
Guessed I'm just surprised a guy with size and a ton of offense would fall all the way to 10.

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05-22-2011, 11:51 PM
  #200
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He won't fall past 7 or 8, if even that low, when the real thing goes down.
Some team might trade for that pick and take him if he's there. But don't discount a run on Dmen like it did in this mock, wouldn't be too surprising to me.

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