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Stastny to Montreal

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Old
05-22-2011, 10:14 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
So just because he has more goals in 3 more seasons, Cammy is the better player?

You do realize that in over the next 3 seasons, Stastny would only have to score 24 goals a season. Which he practically averages every year. And you do realize that Stastny already has more assists than Cammy in 3 less seasons (see 2 can play that game).

Cammy is a goal scorer and Stastny is more of a distributor. Two totally different styles. Plus not to mention Stastny is the far superior defensive player at 3 years younger.

In my proposal Stastny is the best player exchanging hands, the Avs aren't going to give him away. Thus Cammalleri (top 6 winger), Tinordi (a top defensive prospect) and a 1st is probably a fair trade for a 25 year old 1st line center who will give you 75pts and responsible defensive play.
C'mon on man....I understand that you put value to Stastny and by taking some value away from Cammalleri. In this particular proposal, you succeeded at putting big time value on Stastny(rightfully so) but took value away from Cammalleri.
Cammalleri has proven that he can change the outcome of a PO series with his touch around the net. I understand he is no stud wen it comes to defensive coverage but he's no slouch at scoring goals in tight space.

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05-22-2011, 10:38 PM
  #102
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I could see something around a Signed Markov for him in a few years when Subban is really ready for the Number 1 D-Man spot.
Huh?

So you assume the Avs will trade Stastny for a washed up 35 year old defenseman?

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05-22-2011, 10:50 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
C'mon on man....I understand that you put value to Stastny and by taking some value away from Cammalleri. In this particular proposal, you succeeded at putting big time value on Stastny(rightfully so) but took value away from Cammalleri.
Cammalleri has proven that he can change the outcome of a PO series with his touch around the net. I understand he is no stud wen it comes to defensive coverage but he's no slouch at scoring goals in tight space.
I'm not under-valuing Cammalleri, he is a good player and I would love to have him on the Avs. I'm just saying Stastny has more value as he is the better player and is 3 years younger.

The only way the Avs trade Stastny is if they get either
A. an overpayment by a team that really wants a 1st line center or
B. a goaltender they think could be "the guy" ie: Bernier, Schneider etc.

and since Montreal will not be giving us Price (rightfully so), I'd say they would fall into category A. So if they want Stastny then they are going to have to overpay. Thats why I say Cammalleri, Tinordi and a 1st. I think that would be an overpayment for Stastny, but I really feel that's what it would take.

I would love to understand, why people think we "need" to trade Stastny. This whole thing with his dad is blown way out of proportion. The Avs are in total control of that. If young Stastny is in the same boat as dad and decides to tank, we demote him down to the 3rd line and let either O'Reilly or Hishon take over the 2nd line. Plus if he decides to tank he will blow any chances of a good contract when he is due again. He needs to play hard for two reasons 1. if he wants to maintain getting paid as a top player 2. so that if he is really unhappy the Avs can trade him, no team is going to want a player who doesn't try hard when he doesn't get his way and is paid 6mil.

The Avs don't need to trade Stastny, I think he might be available, but as I said before it would have to be for one hell of a package.

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05-22-2011, 11:00 PM
  #104
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Why is this still going?

If we wanted to trade Stastny, its going to be for a franchise goalie or top pairing defensemen.
You Habs fans are acting like Stastny is a 3rd line center 40 point ceiling guy where he really is a 1st line center with a 90 point ceiling.

Now if you want him it'll be for Price or Subban, what don't you understand

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05-22-2011, 11:06 PM
  #105
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These Stastny proposal threads all have the same pattern. It is almost meditative to read them at this stage.

1. Someone wants to get Stastny for a package of picks and prospects.
2. Avs fans decline, saying either that Stastny shouldn't be traded or that if he is, something that fills a big need for Avs would have to come the other way.
3. Another fan of the team OP is a fan of barges in to proclaim how Stastny is crap and overpaid and there is no way Stastny is worth something that fills a big need for Avs.
4. Another outsider smugly implies that Avs probably have to settle for less than they intended, completely ignoring Avs aren't shopping Stastny at all.
5. Thread sinks slowly in a swamp of bickering.

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05-22-2011, 11:25 PM
  #106
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No good American player would ever want to play in Montreal. That's why we gave you Scott Gomez

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05-22-2011, 11:46 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
These Stastny proposal threads all have the same pattern. It is almost meditative to read them at this stage.

1. Someone wants to get Stastny for a package of picks and prospects.
2. Avs fans decline, saying either that Stastny shouldn't be traded or that if he is, something that fills a big need for Avs would have to come the other way.
3. Another fan of the team OP is a fan of barges in to proclaim how Stastny is crap and overpaid and there is no way Stastny is worth something that fills a big need for Avs.
4. Another outsider smugly implies that Avs probably have to settle for less than they intended, completely ignoring Avs aren't shopping Stastny at all.
5. Thread sinks slowly in a swamp of bickering.
You missed the part about his dad somewhere in there. Overall I give this summary a B+.

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05-22-2011, 11:52 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
bad fit all around.

- Statsny isn't close enough to being a big enough upgrade over Plekanec to be worth the Habs giving up the necessary assets to trade for him (and his 6.6M salary).

- Habs are stuck with Gomez, so there's no room to add Statsny's salary unless Gomez is going the other way, and i highly doubt the Avs would have any interest in that
This I agree with -- it's a bad fit. He's probably a bit more of an upgrade than you realize, but that's nitpicking.

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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
- Statsny isn't worth a 6.6M$ cap hit... habs don't need to be trading away any more assets for an overpaid centre. Statsny's young enough that he will likely continue to improve, but still, he's not a 7M$ player (at least not unless Gomez is the measuring stick, in which case he'd be a 10M$ centre
here's where you lose me. Stastny is slightly overpaid, but the contract is essentially what he'd make if he was a free agent today, if not less. .92 PPG centers with great defensive ability make that much.

the only thing that makes it overpayment in HF's eyes is how criminally underrated Stastny is, much like Mikku Koivu, and the fact that he was overpaid vs. his free agent status when he signed the deal. but don't pretend it's even in the same realm as Gomez.

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05-23-2011, 09:17 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
C'mon on man....I understand that you put value to Stastny and by taking some value away from Cammalleri. In this particular proposal, you succeeded at putting big time value on Stastny(rightfully so) but took value away from Cammalleri.
Cammalleri has proven that he can change the outcome of a PO series with his touch around the net. I understand he is no stud wen it comes to defensive coverage but he's no slouch at scoring goals in tight space.
LOL whatz??

Did you even read the thread or did you just respond to the last message you read? His message was a DIRECT response to the poster who said that Calmar-Larry had 72 goals more in only 3 more years. (which averages to 24 goals per season as mentioned ) [Stastny's avg is about 22 goals per year LOL)

It's funny because Habs fans seemingly will never learn. "Oh my godzzzz, we're not trading no PACIORETTY!?!?! Are you insane??? He's a franchise power forward!!!"

Yeah, I also remember the thread from 2006 when during their rookie year, Habs fans were adamant that Guillaume Latendresse was better and was going to BE better than Paul Stastny as well. How'd that work out??

Now, I think Max-Pac will end up being a good player but his career 49 points in 123 gp would suggest that he's certainly not there yet. If he comes out next year and puts up 30g and 60+ pts, he'll be well on his way but the small sample size you saw this season + the injury make these proclamations look about as valid as Harold Camping.

Please habs fans, by ALL MEANS, keep your Gomezes and Calmar-Larries. Stastny is a great fit on the Avs, still only 25 years old and the cap hit, FOR US, it not an issue. We're very glad to have him.

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Old
05-23-2011, 09:50 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
So just because he has more goals in 3 more seasons, Cammy is the better player?

You do realize that in over the next 3 seasons, Stastny would only have to score 24 goals a season. Which he practically averages every year. And you do realize that Stastny already has more assists than Cammy in 3 less seasons (see 2 can play that game).

Cammy is a goal scorer and Stastny is more of a distributor. Two totally different styles. Plus not to mention Stastny is the far superior defensive player at 3 years younger.

In my proposal Stastny is the best player exchanging hands, the Avs aren't going to give him away. Thus Cammalleri (top 6 winger), Tinordi (a top defensive prospect) and a 1st is probably a fair trade for a 25 year old 1st line center who will give you 75pts and responsible defensive play.
stop trying to mind read. i didn't say he was better player, i said he was better than you imagine and worth more than you are making him out to be.

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05-23-2011, 09:53 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
LOL whatz??

Did you even read the thread or did you just respond to the last message you read? His message was a DIRECT response to the poster who said that Calmar-Larry had 72 goals more in only 3 more years. (which averages to 24 goals per season as mentioned ) [Stastny's avg is about 22 goals per year LOL)

It's funny because Habs fans seemingly will never learn. "Oh my godzzzz, we're not trading no PACIORETTY!?!?! Are you insane??? He's a franchise power forward!!!"

Yeah, I also remember the thread from 2006 when during their rookie year, Habs fans were adamant that Guillaume Latendresse was better and was going to BE better than Paul Stastny as well. How'd that work out??

Now, I think Max-Pac will end up being a good player but his career 49 points in 123 gp would suggest that he's certainly not there yet. If he comes out next year and puts up 30g and 60+ pts, he'll be well on his way but the small sample size you saw this season + the injury make these proclamations look about as valid as Harold Camping.

Please habs fans, by ALL MEANS, keep your Gomezes and Calmar-Larries. Stastny is a great fit on the Avs, still only 25 years old and the cap hit, FOR US, it not an issue. We're very glad to have him.
when did this become a pissing contest? Calmar-Larries? how old are you? try growing the **** up. stasny is a special player but he's not worth a very, very good left winger, two firsts - one already in junior and another prospect. kovalchuk didn't even fetch an elite player as part of the 'pieces' given.

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Old
05-23-2011, 09:55 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
I'm not under-valuing Cammalleri, he is a good player and I would love to have him on the Avs. I'm just saying Stastny has more value as he is the better player and is 3 years younger.

The only way the Avs trade Stastny is if they get either
A. an overpayment by a team that really wants a 1st line center or
B. a goaltender they think could be "the guy" ie: Bernier, Schneider etc.

and since Montreal will not be giving us Price (rightfully so), I'd say they would fall into category A. So if they want Stastny then they are going to have to overpay. Thats why I say Cammalleri, Tinordi and a 1st. I think that would be an overpayment for Stastny, but I really feel that's what it would take.

I would love to understand, why people think we "need" to trade Stastny. This whole thing with his dad is blown way out of proportion. The Avs are in total control of that. If young Stastny is in the same boat as dad and decides to tank, we demote him down to the 3rd line and let either O'Reilly or Hishon take over the 2nd line. Plus if he decides to tank he will blow any chances of a good contract when he is due again. He needs to play hard for two reasons 1. if he wants to maintain getting paid as a top player 2. so that if he is really unhappy the Avs can trade him, no team is going to want a player who doesn't try hard when he doesn't get his way and is paid 6mil.

The Avs don't need to trade Stastny, I think he might be available, but as I said before it would have to be for one hell of a package.
and...a prospect. but i agree it's overpayment and would probably take that kind of offer for aves to budge -
which habs wouldn't do.

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05-23-2011, 09:57 AM
  #113
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No good American player would ever want to play in Montreal. That's why we gave you Scott Gomez
Cause playing for the Penguins is so much better

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05-23-2011, 09:59 AM
  #114
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What a joke this thread is. We all like Stastny but c'mon.....bsss

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Old
05-23-2011, 11:08 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
when did this become a pissing contest? Calmar-Larries? how old are you? try growing the **** up. stasny is a special player but he's not worth a very, very good left winger, two firsts - one already in junior and another prospect. kovalchuk didn't even fetch an elite player as part of the 'pieces' given.
Hey, I'm just trying to keep up. At least I'm doing it on purpose.

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05-23-2011, 11:13 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
when did this become a pissing contest? Calmar-Larries? how old are you? try growing the **** up. stasny is a special player but he's not worth a very, very good left winger, two firsts - one already in junior and another prospect. kovalchuk didn't even fetch an elite player as part of the 'pieces' given.
You compare a distressed sale of a pending UFA to Stastny?

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05-23-2011, 11:19 AM
  #117
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Can we please not call the Avs the Aves? Please?

Look, Habs fans want to say Cammalleri is great, Avs fans want to say Stastny is great. But fact is, Stastny is better than Cammalleri. He's younger, he makes his linemates better, and he's only going to improve (not go down).

He's signed for a few years at a cost appropriate to his higher outputs (80+ points) and as such he's not as bad a contract as people make him out to be. I could name a whole ton of players with worse contracts value-wise.

In a deal with Montreal, assuming we actually wanted Cammalleri (which I don't see why we'd trade for another winger when they are much easier to find via Free Agency than top defensemen) it would take Tinordi and a 1st along with Cammalleri, assuming it was the 2011 1st. 2012 I might see a case for the 2nd rounder instead, and then we'd just say no. Tinordi is good, but he's not looking like a top pairing defender after his first year post-draft.

If you don't want to pay the price to get Stastny, namely offering something that improves our team (we do NOT need depth, we have depth players) then just don't offer.

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Old
05-23-2011, 11:23 AM
  #118
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I'm a fan of both teams, but this thread is pretty ridiculous.

I would trade Stastny for Subban straight up. This is extremely fair value. Some Habs here seems they haven't seen a Western Conference team in a very long time.

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05-23-2011, 11:43 AM
  #119
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bottom line ,,,is Statsny is a 1ts line center? yes he is and all-star too

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05-23-2011, 12:00 PM
  #120
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I'm a fan of both teams, but this thread is pretty ridiculous.

I would trade Stastny for Subban straight up. This is extremely fair value. Some Habs here seems they haven't seen a Western Conference team in a very long time.
Subban is a much more needed commodity on the Habs' squad than Stastny would be. Not saying the value is off, but it makes no sense at all for Montreal, also considering they have Pleanec, Gomez, Eller, Desharnais as short & mid term candidates for the top-2 line centre spots.

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05-23-2011, 02:08 PM
  #121
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Subban is a much more needed commodity on the Habs' squad than Stastny would be. Not saying the value is off, but it makes no sense at all for Montreal, also considering they have Pleanec, Gomez, Eller, Desharnais as short & mid term candidates for the top-2 line centre spots.
not to mention salary cap...it is an issue in MTL....unless they take gomez....we can throw in some smoked meat sangys and strippers...and a TON of Molson's

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05-23-2011, 02:34 PM
  #122
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Subban is a much more needed commodity on the Habs' squad than Stastny would be. Not saying the value is off, but it makes no sense at all for Montreal, also considering they have Pleanec, Gomez, Eller, Desharnais as short & mid term candidates for the top-2 line centre spots.
Agreed and it has been mentioned a thousands times that both teams just aren't good trading partners for elite players.

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05-23-2011, 02:41 PM
  #123
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why ??? Why would Montreal trade for Stastny ? We have Gomez (7M$)-Plekanec(5$M$) and Eller....Gomez suck but I still believe he can be a good 2nd center. Plekanec is a 1st/2nd center and If we are lucky Eller will be a very good 2nd center.

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05-23-2011, 02:55 PM
  #124
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him and Getzlaf were super exciting to watch in their rookie years. big fan of Stastny.

Avs got a good thing going down the middle with Stastny/Duchene/O'Reilly...but if they were to trade Stastny, what would you guys expect in return?

sorry if that's been answered already, which it probably has...just too lazy to read through.

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05-23-2011, 03:28 PM
  #125
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him and Getzlaf were super exciting to watch in their rookie years. big fan of Stastny.

Avs got a good thing going down the middle with Stastny/Duchene/O'Reilly...but if they were to trade Stastny, what would you guys expect in return?

sorry if that's been answered already, which it probably has...just too lazy to read through.
more than what has been offered, especially in this thread.

the best offer bandied about has been JJ + Bernier + Stoll from LA for Staz + Gali, and that's where it all started. There was also some talk around Schenn + Bernier + Smyth for Stastny, which I liked.

Stafford + Enroth + 1st was interesting, but not a great one imo. Columbus had an offer of the #8 + Voracek that I didn't like, but many CO fans did.

All the other offers from CLB, TOR, MTL, and whoever else have been pretty much complete crap imo. It's all idiocy like STASTNY ISN'T WORTH MUCH I'D RATHER HAVE GRABO but we still want him so here's a package you would be lucky to get

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