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Old
05-22-2011, 03:36 PM
  #1
Sarava
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Patrick Sharp

There's been a lot of talk among Hawk fans over whether the Hawks will be able to afford extending Sharp after the 11-12 season. Just about all of us want them to keep him, but it's possible it just won't work out if Patrick doesn't give a significant home discount (and why should he?).

So I'm wondering what you all think he might fetch? Keep some things in mind. The motive for this trade would be salary cap related - thus the Hawks are highly unlikely to get equal proven NHL talent in return. We are likely talking about prospects and picks back for him.

My thought is the Hawks need to determine this summer if they can keep him. They won't trade him at the deadline next season, because that would nuke the playoff hopes of the Hawks. So it's down to trade him this summer, resign him at some point, or lose him for nothing next summer. I'm pretty sure the Hawks will make sure it ends up being one of the first 2 options.

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05-22-2011, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
There's been a lot of talk among Hawk fans over whether the Hawks will be able to afford extending Sharp after the 11-12 season. Just about all of us want them to keep him, but it's possible it just won't work out if Patrick doesn't give a significant home discount (and why should he?).

So I'm wondering what you all think he might fetch? Keep some things in mind. The motive for this trade would be salary cap related - thus the Hawks are highly unlikely to get equal proven NHL talent in return. We are likely talking about prospects and picks back for him.

My thought is the Hawks need to determine this summer if they can keep him. They won't trade him at the deadline next season, because that would nuke the playoff hopes of the Hawks. So it's down to trade him this summer, resign him at some point, or lose him for nothing next summer. I'm pretty sure the Hawks will make sure it ends up being one of the first 2 options.
It sounds like a Bogo+1rst round pick for Sharp trade would be great for both teams.

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05-22-2011, 03:59 PM
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Phion Keneuf
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Leafs 2012 1st + 2012 2nd + Kadri

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Old
05-22-2011, 04:07 PM
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HockeySensible
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He doesn't need to give a significant home discount to stay with the Hawks, it's all about term.

The Hawks could easily give him a 5 year contract (which would take him to 36 years old). They could structure it so the Salary goes steadily down each year, but not ridiculous like some other contracts. Something like 6M, 6M, 5M, 4M, 4M for an average caphit of 5M. It's a good contract for both sides. But, again, it just depends on how much term the Hawks are willing to give to Sharpie.

At the end of the day it's very likely Sharp stays with the Hawks. Someone would really have to blow them away to get him out of Chicago.

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05-22-2011, 04:36 PM
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would like B. Schenn

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05-22-2011, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
There's been a lot of talk among Hawk fans over whether the Hawks will be able to afford extending Sharp after the 11-12 season. Just about all of us want them to keep him, but it's possible it just won't work out if Patrick doesn't give a significant home discount (and why should he?).

So I'm wondering what you all think he might fetch? Keep some things in mind. The motive for this trade would be salary cap related - thus the Hawks are highly unlikely to get equal proven NHL talent in return. We are likely talking about prospects and picks back for him.

My thought is the Hawks need to determine this summer if they can keep him. They won't trade him at the deadline next season, because that would nuke the playoff hopes of the Hawks. So it's down to trade him this summer, resign him at some point, or lose him for nothing next summer. I'm pretty sure the Hawks will make sure it ends up being one of the first 2 options.
The Hawks are not going to trade Sharp, now or at the deadline. First, It is nearly impossible to determine with any certainty their ability (and level of need) to sign him before next 2112 UFA period this summer, just too many unknowable factors. Plus, there is almost no way to move him without downgrading the team next year when the brass believes the hawks will be serious contender. They'd end up trading those same assets they acquired for Sharp at the deadline to get a player of lessor quality. I believe they will try to re-sign until he does or the clock runs out. If they lose him for nothing, well, they won't be the first team to lose a very good player to FA.

I think he's likely to stay. Most guys work something out with their team in the end.

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05-22-2011, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarmerSavardSecord View Post
The Hawks are not going to trade Sharp, now or at the deadline. First, It is nearly impossible to determine with any certainty their ability (and level of need) to sign him before next 2112 UFA period this summer, just too many unknowable factors. Plus, there is almost no way to move him without downgrading the team next year when the brass believes the hawks will be serious contender. They'd end up trading those same assets they acquired for Sharp at the deadline to get a player of lessor quality. I believe they will try to re-sign until he does or the clock runs out. If they lose him for nothing, well, they won't be the first team to lose a very good player to FA.

I think he's likely to stay. Most guys work something out with their team in the end.
You're right that there's no way to know for sure, but they can get a pretty good idea. For instance...find out this summer if Brian Campbell is indeed unmovable. If he is unmovable this summer, he probably will be even harder to move next year with him being a year older. Other factors this off-season can give them a good idea, like who they lock up among the current free agents and for how much. Will Frolik sign for 1.7 mil or 2.6 mil? Either is possible and the length of contract will affect that, and then ultimately affect how much money is left over for Sharp.

Ultimately I agree with Hoss and Larmer that he is likely to stay. But there's no guarantee of that and it doesn't hurt to kick the tires on this. Also I wouldn't expect him to sign a deal for 5 mil per. He's worth more than that and he surely knows it.

As for the two potential offers. I like the Leafs package, though their 2012 pick is likely to be 15+ (especially if they have Sharp). Don't care for Bogo myself. And I agree with Bubba... Schenn would be make this easier to swallow if it did end up happening.

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05-22-2011, 06:25 PM
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If trading Sharp is really the best option, or the only one that works....

It would have to be a Cup contender looking to boost its lineup, trading away one or more prospects.

I could see them getting a high-end (but not top) young player for Sharp as a rental.

Not B. Schenn, Seguin, Skinner, etc... but someone like Coyle, Kuznetzov, Brett Connolly, or Ryan Ellis might be in reach, depending on how the respective teams see their Cup chances and the rest of their prospect pool. (also assuming these young players don't step up to play well on their respective teams next season.. the teams wouldn't trade an effective roster player if they're making a Cup run).

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05-22-2011, 06:27 PM
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Hawks won't trade Sharp... he'll either re-sign in Chicago or walk for nothing.

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05-22-2011, 06:32 PM
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Wow. And here I was thinking someone was going to get plastered by Hawks fans for asking for the guy...

I suspect y'all would be disappointed by the return. By definition, it'd only happen if the Hawks are in a cap crunch, and teams will be aware of that and eager to take advantage.

Columbus, for example, would probably max out at Matt Calvert. Criminal underpayment, but it's something - and Calvert looks to be a similar two-way guy. Wouldn't normally give Cal up at all, but the prospect of adding a second Umberger type has a lot of appeal.

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05-22-2011, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shartmcgart View Post
Hawks won't trade Sharp... he'll either re-sign in Chicago or walk for nothing.
Never happen.

If they do end up moving him I'd like to see it done this sumer while he's got way more value. A superstar with a small cap hit for another year. He would fetch a lot more. But I'm hoping Chicago finds a way to resign him. Also if they do move him, send him east please.

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05-22-2011, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DayNah View Post
Never happen.

If they do end up moving him I'd like to see it done this sumer while he's got way more value. A superstar with a small cap hit for another year. He would fetch a lot more. But I'm hoping Chicago finds a way to resign him. Also if they do move him, send him east please.
That will never happen, my friend. We need him for this next year while he's still on a great deal. We would be bonkers to trade him for anything short of an extended Sharp.

Maybe we'll trade him if we're out of the playoffs (with 100% certainty) by the trade deadline, but we both know that's probably not going to happen.

IMO, we extend Sharp and either trade Hossa, Campbell or some other guys. We'll see what happens, but there's no way we trade him this summer unless he demands it.

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05-22-2011, 10:23 PM
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Never happen.

If they do end up moving him I'd like to see it done this sumer while he's got way more value. A superstar with a small cap hit for another year. He would fetch a lot more. But I'm hoping Chicago finds a way to resign him. Also if they do move him, send him east please.
So let me get this straight.. Teams are going to give up prospects/picks for one year of Sharp because he really improves their chances this year, with the hope of re-signing him. But the hawks shouldn't keep Sharp for one year with the hopes of re-signing him, where they clearly have the inside track for a home-town discount, so not to miss out on acquiring picks/prospect (both of which which they already have many)

Show my an example of a contender trading a cap-friendly, key player in the final year of his contract for prospect/picks for fear of losing him for nothing the following year.

Sharp's agent isn't going to show his hand this summer, or put a crazy number out there and say take it of leave it. It's a process. And Sharp doesn't want to effectively force a trade from a place where he's happy and well-treated (more a celebrity guy than any other Hawk by far outside of hockey), thinks he can win a cup (again), and knows he can put up numbers lined likely with JT and Kane in a contract year to... who knows?

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05-22-2011, 10:25 PM
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We have four top six forwards in Toews, Kane, Sharp and Hossa for whom we try to find two complementary parts on left-wing.

To succeed in deep playoff runs we can go with Toews-Sharp-Bolland down the middle to get a 3rd-line mismatch versus Sedin/Kesler, Thornton/Pavelski, and possibly Datsyuk/Zetterberg if Detroit has enough depth on the wings to separate them.

Meanwhile we have $22 million in cap-space tied up in our top-four defencemen which is a luxury we may not be able to afford.

The bottom-line is we will trade a Hjalmarsson to accomodate Sharp long before we trade Sharp.

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05-22-2011, 10:48 PM
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well if someone wants to take campbell and/or hossa that would be ideal but remember that seabrook/hammer/hossa are all signed to deals that will be appealing to alot of clubs.....

seabrook/hammer/hossa and a draft pick to washington for backstrom/shultz..............bring it.....

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05-22-2011, 10:52 PM
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seabrook/hammer/hossa and a draft pick to washington for backstrom/shultz..............bring it.....
Washington says no. We're not trading Backstrom.

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05-23-2011, 12:02 AM
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Even a casual Hawks fan realizes how important this guy is not just on the ice, but in the dressing room. I think to remove Sharp from the team would disrupt chemistry more than last off-season's purge did.

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Originally Posted by projexns View Post
The bottom-line is we will trade a Hjalmarsson to accomodate Sharp long before we trade Sharp.
Agreed. I can definitely see the Hawks moving Hammer to keep Sharp in the fold.

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05-23-2011, 12:33 AM
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I proposed this swap on the Sabres forum after reading your post Sarava...

Quote:
TO BUF:
F Patrick Sharp(one year, $3,900,000)
D Brian Campbell(five years, $7,142,875)
F Kyle Beach(ELC, three years, $1,170,833)
Salary taking in: $11,042,875
Salary going out: $6,525,000
Difference: taking in $4,517,875

TO CHI:
F Jochen Hecht(one year, $3,525,000)
F Luke Adam(ELC, two years, $875,000)
D Jordan Leopold(two years, $3,000,000)
D TJ Brennnan(ELC, two years, $875,000)
2012 BUF 1st
2012 BUF 3rd
Salary taking in: $6,525,000
Salary going out: $11,042,875
Difference: saving $4,517,875

So essentially we do Chicago a favour in cap relief(Campbell, downgraded to Leopold) and they add Beach in return. At the same time value is received for Sharp and Hecht is given for salary purposes and we do it without braking the bank. I wonder if that swap would get it done.
When you break it down however it's basically a depth forward, a 1st Round Pick, two 2nd Round Picks and a Third Round Pick for Sharp.

Just curious Blackhawk fans if your fan base would be encouraged on making such a deal. Thoughts and opinions are welcomed.

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05-23-2011, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projexns View Post
Meanwhile we have $22 million in cap-space tied up in our top-four defencemen which is a luxury we may not be able to afford.

The bottom-line is we will trade a Hjalmarsson to accomodate Sharp long before we trade Sharp.
That last makes perfect sense. And if you're willing to take on shorter-term ugly contracts, the Jackets certainly would have an interest in Campbell.

(Or at least I and several fellow fans do... )

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05-23-2011, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Gardebut30 View Post
Even a casual Hawks fan realizes how important this guy is not just on the ice, but in the dressing room. I think to remove Sharp from the team would disrupt chemistry more than last off-season's purge did.



Agreed. I can definitely see the Hawks moving Hammer to keep Sharp in the fold.
Totally agree and hope he signs a long term contract with us. Take a look at Blackhawks tv videos, Sharp is a great locker room guy and a great influence on Captain Serious and Mullet boy. For that reason alone I miss Adam Burrish as well. Toews, Keith and Kane are the only Hawks I would keep over Sharp. Anybody else is a fair target when it comes to retaining Sharp.

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That last makes perfect sense. And if you're willing to take on shorter-term ugly contracts, the Jackets certainly would have an interest in Campbell.

(Or at least I and several fellow fans do... )
Well Campbell has NTC. While Columbus is a nice place, I don't think it is on BC's list of preferred destinations.

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Old
05-23-2011, 12:59 AM
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no interest in this BUF Proposal.

Hecht for Campbell + #36 overall this year

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05-23-2011, 01:16 AM
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Viqsi
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Well Campbell has NTC. While Columbus is a nice place, I don't think it is on BC's list of preferred destinations.
Just tell him that he'll get #1 power play unit time with Rick Nash.

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05-23-2011, 01:29 AM
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So let me get this straight.. Teams are going to give up prospects/picks for one year of Sharp because he really improves their chances this year, with the hope of re-signing him. But the hawks shouldn't keep Sharp for one year with the hopes of re-signing him, where they clearly have the inside track for a home-town discount, so not to miss out on acquiring picks/prospect (both of which which they already have many)

Show my an example of a contender trading a cap-friendly, key player in the final year of his contract for prospect/picks for fear of losing him for nothing the following year.

Sharp's agent isn't going to show his hand this summer, or put a crazy number out there and say take it of leave it. It's a process. And Sharp doesn't want to effectively force a trade from a place where he's happy and well-treated (more a celebrity guy than any other Hawk by far outside of hockey), thinks he can win a cup (again), and knows he can put up numbers lined likely with JT and Kane in a contract year to... who knows?
Mother ****in Muckler trading Marty Havlat to Chicago for Preissing, Josh Hennessy, Michael Baranka, and a 2nd.

So yeah, its a bad call.

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05-23-2011, 01:37 AM
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Hawks are not trading Patrick Sharp

The options with Sharp are pretty simple

He either resigns with Hawks in summer of 2012 or leaves as UFA

He will not be moved before by Hawks. Most likely scenario IMO is Hawks hope that Olsen progresses in AHL this year so they can trade Hjalmarsson before summer of 2012 to free up more cap room to resign Sharp longterm.

Sharp will either resign or become UFA ,, Simple as that

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05-23-2011, 01:40 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Hawks are not trading Patrick Sharp

The options with Sharp are pretty simple

He either resigns with Hawks in summer of 2012 or leaves as UFA

He will not be moved before by Hawks. Most likely scenario IMO is Hawks hope that Olsen progresses in AHL this year so they can trade Hjalmarsson before summer of 2012 to free up more cap room to resign Sharp longterm.

Sharp will either resign or become UFA ,, Simple as that
Yes, exactly! There's no scenario where it makes sense for the Hawks to trade him. Please, no more Sharp proposals.

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