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Richards and Carter

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Old
05-23-2011, 08:22 AM
  #1
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Richards and Carter

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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
With Richards or any player, if management feels they can hold off on surgery, who has the final say? I agree that he should have had it repaired, he would have missed quite a bit of time in the fall which is better than spring. He is having rehab 4 weeks after surgery so you have to figure he would have missed a lot of time.
Who cares if he missed 6-8wks, if it made him healthy for the playoffs. Wasn't the depth on this team at center??

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As far as the team and its implosion, I think it starts with Homer. I mentioned this before, if Bob hadn't fallen into the team's lap, we would have had Boosh as the #1 and he would have had to start almost every game between October and November with an AHL or ECHL goalie as his backup since Leighton wasn't ready and should never have been given a contract. We're likely not even in the playoffs without Bob. Then look at the forwards, they put our best face off guy and biggest player on RW. The team hasn't been good on face offs in a couple of years so why do that? So maybe the confidence in the team started to dwindle and it snowballed. I also wouldn't be surprised if a lot of players stopped buying into what Lavi was selling, especially when he brought Leighton up for his 1 game, who exactly would the sieve have replaced?
Of course it falls on Homer, because he gave this team a chance to win. He made soem poor choices in regards to net. Leighton was resigned as the goalie because he took the team to the SCF's with a pretty consistent effort, he was not the answer and now they have a chance to pull the trigger and get a legit, it needs to happen, period. Enough of the dance around the goalie nonsense.

And now on to blaming the coach?? The same coach who when they did buy into the systen got them to the SCF's on the solid play and consistent effort from his players? The one thing that cost them last year was the depth on defense, so Homer added depth, but yet it still was not good enough. If the players stopped buying into Laviolette's gameplan, well shame on them. For it to work it requires players to work hard, move their feet, and forecheck. They stopped doing that, THE PLAYERS stopped working. Stop blaming other people for the actions on the ice, that is lame.

Quote:
The PP never worked out. Part of it was because it's so predictable. Giroux always passes, Leino always pulls the spinarama, Briere is always on the goalie's right and shooting high, Kimmo rarely shoots, Carle sometimes shoots but generally wristers. Richards should have been on the point from the beginning and he needed to work on his passes because the slap pass is too hard for the receiver to control.
The PP did not work because they are too fancy with the puck, they skate around trying to drop passes which are telegraphed and Richards does not help with his cross-ice, low percentage passes. The biggest piece of the PP was Pronger, with him back the PP is a much more efficient special teams. They also lacked traffic to the net, it is actually one of the positives that Carter started to do this season. With the improvement of JvR and return of Pronger there will be imporvement. But once again, the PP was not the reason for the poor play during the last 20 games and in the playoffs. It was a part of the problem, but not the big picture problem.


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Then in the playoffs we end up with Bob getting yanked really quick, loses his confidence, Boosh is #1 and Bob is dropped to #3 for MFL. I can see why Lavi put him in as #3 for 1 game because he felt Bob lost his confidence, but to put him as #3 for more than one game and THEN to put MFL as the starter in an elimination game when he couldn't crack the lineup during the season was pure insanity. Did he do it because he wanted to prove a point that he wasn't given good goalies? Did Homer pressure him to put "his" guy in?
Laviolette is a coach who tries to push the right buttons, he missed on the goalie carousel, but none of the goalies could have helped with the poor play in front of them.

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Then look at the Boston series where Briere's line was put up against Krejci's. It was so obviously a mismatch but Lavi did it for at least 2 games, both home games. Brutal coaching from someone who seemed to make all kinds of changes during the regular season.
Agree, but if this was a mismatch against the Flyers then why did one of the other mismatches benefit the Flyers? They got beat by guys like Marchand, Bergeron, and Kelly. Not exactly guys who are considered real threats. They just outworked the Flyers.

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I don't blame the players for not buying in. It's like any job when your bosses are out to lunch in a lot of ways. The last job I had was like that, they'd give clients totally unrealistic timelines, then our health and dental benefits weren't paid because they couldn't afford the premiums, then our paycheques were late, all the while they were saying things were fine and we were expected to say things were fine when the clients called even though we knew otherwise.
This is just unreal. Players do not buy in after going to the SCF's with this coach and his system?? These guys got paid, $5million dollars a year to play, if they were not prepared to go out and do their job and bail on the coach well shame on them. Address the issues in the offseason, don't quit on the coach. What does that say about the individuals? For me that shows a group with a lack of character. Just a year out from going through a coaching change and on the coattails of a SCF run and you accept them laying down?? WOW.

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05-23-2011, 08:24 AM
  #2
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
The thing is, if people reply to him and they quote him, people will still see what he says.
Still amazes me people cannot have an honest debate on opinions. It is a shame actually. The fact that someone has to rely on an ignore feature is comical.

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05-23-2011, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
you know what cracks me up about that is that most the so called anaylsts thought it had to do with Pronger not being out there. The PP for the most part chewed ass even with Pronger in the lineup. This year was a total opposite of past years. In past years we had a top 5 PP and a good PK unit and out 5 on 5 play was below average and everyone knew our 5 on 5 play had to be better. Now that it was our special teams were terrible for the most part all year.
We definitely need a change in philosophy on the PP because it was a disaster this year. I dont know if we are going to get rid of Mullen or not. I dont know if Holmgren is smart enough to realize that our special teams were terrible this year.
How many times did this team give up a critical PPG late in a hockey game this year. Too many to count.
This is the same PP philosophy which was at a 21% clip in last years playoffs, and a 21% during the regular season. Same players. So was it really the PP or was it the execution on the PP by the players??

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05-23-2011, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Still amazes me people cannot have an honest debate on opinions. It is a shame actually. The fact that someone has to rely on an ignore feature is comical.
People are fully capable of having an honest debate. We do it on other boards at length, and with many opposing views. Since you've come here the whole board has changed because you post so much fiction as fact and because you have a one track mind. Having said that, it's been entertaining as hell!

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05-23-2011, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
People are fully capable of having an honest debate. We do it on other boards at length, and with many opposing views. Since you've come here the whole board has changed because you post so much fiction as fact and because you have a one track mind. Having said that, it's been entertaining as hell!
I appreciate your candor. I am glad I can bring some entertainment to the board, because otherwise it would just be a one-sided view on the core issues at hand.

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05-23-2011, 10:10 AM
  #6
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It's never been one-sided. You just think it is.

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05-23-2011, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I appreciate your candor. I am glad I can bring some entertainment to the board, because otherwise it would just be a one-sided view on the core issues at hand.
Nope, not even remotely one sided. It's just that you came along and your one trick pony comments have forced people to defend players that we never used to. Carter never had this kind of support till you came along. It forced us to really look at his game and realize he brought a lot more to the table than scoring. Same goes for Richards but not nearly to the same extent. So really, I'd say Carter owes you big time for turning a lot of people into fans of his because you pushed us to really scrutinize his play!

Many of us have been here for years, through TSTSNBN right through to the run last year. We've had plenty of arguments and we've had a lot of emotion here, both good and bad. The participation isn't nearly as high but that happens everywhere.

As for the subject at hand, nice article today from Gormley in interviewing Richards:

http://blogs.courierpostonline.com/flyers/

Seems like the captain and coach do talk, imagine that!

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05-23-2011, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It's never been one-sided. You just think it is.
It's Homers fault.

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05-23-2011, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Nope, not even remotely one sided. It's just that you came along and your one trick pony comments have forced people to defend players that we never used to. Carter never had this kind of support till you came along. It forced us to really look at his game and realize he brought a lot more to the table than scoring. Same goes for Richards but not nearly to the same extent. So really, I'd say Carter owes you big time for turning a lot of people into fans of his because you pushed us to really scrutinize his play!
Good for the Carter support, if it came down to me changing people's minds about the play of a player and his value to the organization it must have been some real insight going on. Did I hurt Carter's feelings by my mean words about him not being as good as some may suggest or that his salary could be a huge boost to replenishing some needs in the organization. Boo-hoo. Toughen up people.

Quote:
Many of us have been here for years, through TSTSNBN right through to the run last year. We've had plenty of arguments and we've had a lot of emotion here, both good and bad. The participation isn't nearly as high but that happens everywhere.

As for the subject at hand, nice article today from Gormley in interviewing Richards:

http://blogs.courierpostonline.com/flyers/

Seems like the captain and coach do talk, imagine that!
Yup, and look at this gem. Blaming losing the Bruins series on a couple of bounces....LOL.

Q: After sitting through the post-season meetings, is there anything that stands out as to what went wrong this season?

A: I don’t know. Now that I have a little bit of time to reflect I think we got away from some of the things that gave us success. At the beginning of the year we had a lot of it and maybe we took for granted a little bit about how hard it is to win hockey games. When you start trying to do just the minimum to get by, instead of doing whatever it takes to win hockey games … I thought the Buffalo series we played extremely well and in the Boston series I didn’t think so. But they have a good team, they had great goaltending and they got a couple of bounces. What you need to have success in the playoffs is health – we missed a couple of key players – and you have to get some bounces your way – post and in instead of post and out – and we didn’t have that timely goal scoring, either.




Does this guy ever learn?? Take another shot at the media. Just deal with it.


Q: So it sounds like it would be a joy to play in Philadelphia and stay in Philadelphia if you didn’t have to deal with the media.

A: If we could take you guys away it would be the perfect place, believe me.

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05-23-2011, 10:49 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Yup, and look at this gem. Blaming losing the Bruins series on a couple of bounces....LOL.

Q: After sitting through the post-season meetings, is there anything that stands out as to what went wrong this season?

A: I don’t know. Now that I have a little bit of time to reflect I think we got away from some of the things that gave us success. At the beginning of the year we had a lot of it and maybe we took for granted a little bit about how hard it is to win hockey games. When you start trying to do just the minimum to get by, instead of doing whatever it takes to win hockey games … I thought the Buffalo series we played extremely well and in the Boston series I didn’t think so. But they have a good team, they had great goaltending and they got a couple of bounces. What you need to have success in the playoffs is health – we missed a couple of key players – and you have to get some bounces your way – post and in instead of post and out – and we didn’t have that timely goal scoring, either.




Does this guy ever learn?? Take another shot at the media. Just deal with it.


Q: So it sounds like it would be a joy to play in Philadelphia and stay in Philadelphia if you didn’t have to deal with the media.

A: If we could take you guys away it would be the perfect place, believe me.
You never fail to live up to your reputation. Ignore the rest of the article and go straight for the ********. Nicely done, troll.

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05-23-2011, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Good for the Carter support, if it came down to me changing people's minds about the play of a player and his value to the organization it must have been some real insight going on. Did I hurt Carter's feelings by my mean words about him not being as good as some may suggest or that his salary could be a huge boost to replenishing some needs in the organization. Boo-hoo. Toughen up people.



Yup, and look at this gem. Blaming losing the Bruins series on a couple of bounces....LOL.

Q: After sitting through the post-season meetings, is there anything that stands out as to what went wrong this season?

A: I don’t know. Now that I have a little bit of time to reflect I think we got away from some of the things that gave us success. At the beginning of the year we had a lot of it and maybe we took for granted a little bit about how hard it is to win hockey games. When you start trying to do just the minimum to get by, instead of doing whatever it takes to win hockey games … I thought the Buffalo series we played extremely well and in the Boston series I didn’t think so. But they have a good team, they had great goaltending and they got a couple of bounces. What you need to have success in the playoffs is health – we missed a couple of key players – and you have to get some bounces your way – post and in instead of post and out – and we didn’t have that timely goal scoring, either.




Does this guy ever learn?? Take another shot at the media. Just deal with it.


Q: So it sounds like it would be a joy to play in Philadelphia and stay in Philadelphia if you didn’t have to deal with the media.

A: If we could take you guys away it would be the perfect place, believe me.
You're inability to read and comprehend amazes me. Seriously, I am laughing my ass off here!

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05-23-2011, 11:01 AM
  #12
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guess we cant go more then 12 hours of you know actual talk about this hockey club before the ******** starts.

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05-23-2011, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
You never fail to live up to your reputation. Ignore the rest of the article and go straight for the ********. Nicely done, troll.
What, am I supposed to just stick with the fluff?

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05-23-2011, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
You're inability to read and comprehend amazes me. Seriously, I am laughing my ass off here!
What are you laughing at, this?? Pretty funny that a team with so much talent has to rely on a couple of bounces. They got swept. Time for some offseason changes.

A: I don’t know. Now that I have a little bit of time to reflect I think we got away from some of the things that gave us success. At the beginning of the year we had a lot of it and maybe we took for granted a little bit about how hard it is to win hockey games. When you start trying to do just the minimum to get by, instead of doing whatever it takes to win hockey games … I thought the Buffalo series we played extremely well and in the Boston series I didn’t think so. But they have a good team, they had great goaltending and they got a couple of bounces. What you need to have success in the playoffs is health – we missed a couple of key players – and you have to get some bounces your way – post and in instead of post and out – and we didn’t have that timely goal scoring, either.

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05-23-2011, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
What, am I supposed to just stick with the fluff?
When one debates, they need to look at ALL sides of the argument, not just pick out sections that supports their side and hope the other side doesnt notice the rest of the article. I do like how, to you, the positive things are "fluff" and the one sentence in the whole article is the truth.

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05-23-2011, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
What, am I supposed to just stick with the fluff?

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05-23-2011, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
What are you laughing at, this?? Pretty funny that a team with so much talent has to rely on a couple of bounces. They got swept. Time for some offseason changes.

A: I don’t know. Now that I have a little bit of time to reflect I think we got away from some of the things that gave us success. At the beginning of the year we had a lot of it and maybe we took for granted a little bit about how hard it is to win hockey games. When you start trying to do just the minimum to get by, instead of doing whatever it takes to win hockey games … I thought the Buffalo series we played extremely well and in the Boston series I didn’t think so. But they have a good team, they had great goaltending and they got a couple of bounces. What you need to have success in the playoffs is health – we missed a couple of key players – and you have to get some bounces your way – post and in instead of post and out – and we didn’t have that timely goal scoring, either.
You never heard of players complaining about bounces? All 30 teams, even the ones that won, have stated that sometimes it goes your way and sometimes it doesnt. Its a common statement that players, coaches, and management alike all use.

Also you didnt highlight where he said he didnt think they played well in Boston, and how timely goalscoring wasnt there. See man, this is what Im talking about in debates.

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05-23-2011, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
When one debates, they need to look at ALL sides of the argument, not just pick out sections that supports their side and hope the other side doesnt notice the rest of the article. I do like how, to you, the positive things are "fluff" and the one sentence in the whole article is the truth.
Because it easy to talk about all the good things, but how about addressing the bad things? The things which need to be addressed, like offseason changes to help make sure they do not go through the same struggles next season.

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05-23-2011, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
When one debates, they need to look at ALL sides of the argument, not just pick out sections that supports their side and hope the other side doesnt notice the rest of the article. I do like how, to you, the positive things are "fluff" and the one sentence in the whole article is the truth.
you didnt know that the media is never wrong, and would never intentionally make **** up and make certian players on this team look bad puroposly? all the while ignoring the fact that most of our key players had injuries that they had been playing with. But no its because they are drunks, or they are lazy or whatever. I mean hey the media says it, it must be true.
The Philadelphia meda can go **** themselves.

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05-23-2011, 11:19 AM
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Nice response, predictable.

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05-23-2011, 11:21 AM
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Nice response, predictable.
I thought it was pretty apropos, no?

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05-23-2011, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
you didnt know that the media is never wrong, and would never intentionally make **** up and make certian players on this team look bad puroposly? all the while ignoring the fact that most of our key players had injuries that they had been playing with. But no its because they are drunks, or they are lazy or whatever. I mean hey the media says it, it must be true.
The Philadelphia meda can go **** themselves.
Maybe if the captain handled the media with more maturity they would not be so hard on him. Suck it up dude. I really feel for him.

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05-23-2011, 11:29 AM
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Richards and Carter

Here. Talk about them in this thread. Do not turn every thread into a Carter/Richards discussion. Keep it in here and nowhere else.


STEERING ANY MORE THREADS ONTO THE SUBJECT OF CARTER OR RICHARDS WILL RESULT IN A FORUM BAN

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05-23-2011, 11:32 AM
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I thought it was pretty apropos, no?
Denial is not a river in the Ukraine.

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05-23-2011, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Here. Talk about them in this thread. Do not turn every thread into a Carter/Richards discussion. Keep it in here and nowhere else.


STEERING ANY MORE THREADS ONTO THE SUBJECT OF CARTER OR RICHARDS WILL RESULT IN A FORUM BAN
The issue of the two players is an important part of the conversation regarding the "Offseason", because for change to occur it seemls likely that one would have to go to address a major issue, which is goaltending.

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