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Old
05-23-2011, 11:40 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
The issue of the two players is an important part of the conversation regarding the "Offseason", because for change to occur it seemls likely that one would have to go to address a major issue, which is goaltending.
If getting rid of them is so important, aren't you pleased to have a thread all about it?

Keep it here. Do not pollute every single other thread on this forum with "well if we traded Carter or Richards" as the solution. There are other aspects to the offseason besides trading Carter, but once you appeared in the offseason thread it was hard to tell that was the case.

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05-23-2011, 11:48 AM
  #27
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CP, I think it's pretty obvious that Richards is being a smartass with that last line. He obviously likes Gormley because he's taking the time out of his vacation to talk to the guy. He's just messing around with him.

It is amazing how someone who is not new to reading like yourself can take things so literally, only it's selective. With Richards' comments here, you take things at face value, yet in other instances, you manage to invent stories and draw conclusions from a random sentence here or there (the partying, the inability to lead, etc).

Debate, which you claim people here are afraid of, is one thing. Close-mindedness, fabricated arguments, and out-of-context statements are something else. You have an agenda and you only look for things that support it. Nothing else.

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05-23-2011, 12:26 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If getting rid of them is so important, aren't you pleased to have a thread all about it?

Keep it here. Do not pollute every single other thread on this forum with "well if we traded Carter or Richards" as the solution. There are other aspects to the offseason besides trading Carter, but once you appeared in the offseason thread it was hard to tell that was the case.
Because it started with the fact this team needs to address the goaltending issues, which means some salary has to be removed to fit in a legit goalie option.

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05-23-2011, 12:27 PM
  #29
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The issue is that you manage to turn every single thread you enter into a "trade Carter or Richards" debate.

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05-23-2011, 12:37 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
CP, I think it's pretty obvious that Richards is being a smartass with that last line. He obviously likes Gormley because he's taking the time out of his vacation to talk to the guy. He's just messing around with him.

It is amazing how someone who is not new to reading like yourself can take things so literally, only it's selective. With Richards' comments here, you take things at face value, yet in other instances, you manage to invent stories and draw conclusions from a random sentence here or there (the partying, the inability to lead, etc).

Debate, which you claim people here are afraid of, is one thing. Close-mindedness, fabricated arguments, and out-of-context statements are something else. You have an agenda and you only look for things that support it. Nothing else.
At least I am not looking at the situation with blinders on, just sweeping things under the rug because some refuse to ackowledge that everything may not be as grand as some may think. There are issues, and claims that have gone unreported at this time but have been considered "rumors", I think it would explain a lot of what this team leadership is going through right now.

As far as the rest, you draw your conclusion, I will draw mine. Been around long enough to know when I see some trouble. Time will tell on this one. I am really hurt that you think of me as being closed-minded, we are talking about hockey here, not discrimination. LOL.

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05-23-2011, 12:45 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The issue is that you manage to turn every single thread you enter into a "trade Carter or Richards" debate.
Because they are the core of the problem. Just because others will turn a blind eye these issues have been going on for a couple years now. Why did they remove pieces like Lupul and Upshall when all of the questions were brought up about those guys going out? It is one thing to question the reliability of an article or a claim, but how many times does it keep coming up that this team lacks a consistent performance on the ice and continuing off-ice questions? Every year. Coaches fired. Players get a pass. Questions about locker room issues, Pronger comes in, still the same questions. Just the tone of Timonen's response to getting ousted says a lot.

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05-23-2011, 12:47 PM
  #32
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Lupul and Upshall are nowhere near as good as Richards and Carter.

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05-23-2011, 12:47 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Because they are the core of the problem. Just because others will turn a blind eye these issues have been going on for a couple years now. Why did they remove pieces like Lupul and Upshall when all of the questions were brought up about those guys going out? It is one thing to question the reliability of an article or a claim, but how many times does it keep coming up that this team lacks a consistent performance on the ice and continuing off-ice questions? Every year. Coaches fired. Players get a pass. Questions about locker room issues, Pronger comes in, still the same questions. Just the tone of Timonen's response to getting ousted says a lot.
Ah, because we were *ed against the salary cap. Lupul had a stupid contract that never should have been put in front of him to sign, and Upshall was dealt to create some breathing space after Holmgren nuked the cap with the Carle trade while Briere was on LTIR...

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05-23-2011, 12:54 PM
  #34
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Ah, because we were *ed against the salary cap. Lupul had a stupid contract that never should have been put in front of him to sign, and Upshall was dealt to create some breathing space after Holmgren nuked the cap with the Carle trade while Briere was on LTIR...
Thanks for your response. For a minute, I thought I was the only one who remembered the cap hell of those days. That was during times where the Flyers were also waiving NHL-capable players just to stay compliant. Meh, easier to blame the "core" than to look at reality.

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05-23-2011, 01:04 PM
  #35
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anyone who thinks Lupul and Upshall are better then Carter and Richards are not paying attention.

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05-23-2011, 01:08 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
anyone who thinks Lupul and Upshall are better then Carter and Richards are not paying attention.
To be fair, he isn't saying they are better. He is saying...if their partying wasn't an issue, why did they ship out 2 of their crew?

As Jester pointed out, it was cap hell.

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05-23-2011, 01:24 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
To be fair, he isn't saying they are better. He is saying...if their partying wasn't an issue, why did they ship out 2 of their crew?

As Jester pointed out, it was cap hell.
The team under this group has been bipolar. One year they go to the ECF's, the next year they play inconsistent hockey, get bounced, coach is fired. Go to SCF's, come back play inconsistent hockey, people want to blame the GM and coach. There is reason for concern.

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05-23-2011, 01:29 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
The team under this group has been bipolar. One year they go to the ECF's, the next year they play inconsistent hockey, get bounced, coach is fired. Go to SCF's, come back play inconsistent hockey, people want to blame the GM and coach. There is reason for concern.
I don't disagree. There are also a large number of variables that go into such a thing. It's crazy to point at any one thing and claim it to be THE problem.

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05-23-2011, 01:33 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
The team under this group has been bipolar. One year they go to the ECF's, the next year they play inconsistent hockey, get bounced, coach is fired. Go to SCF's, come back play inconsistent hockey, people want to blame the GM and coach. There is reason for concern.
You mean to say that teams don't perform exactly the same every season? Shocking.

edit: wait, I just noticed the second part. This team didn't play inconsistent hockey when they came back, they were dominant for half of the season. They carried over their play from the playoffs very nicely.

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05-23-2011, 01:42 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
At least I am not looking at the situation with blinders on, just sweeping things under the rug because some refuse to ackowledge that everything may not be as grand as some may think. There are issues, and claims that have gone unreported at this time but have been considered "rumors", I think it would explain a lot of what this team leadership is going through right now.

As far as the rest, you draw your conclusion, I will draw mine. Been around long enough to know when I see some trouble. Time will tell on this one. I am really hurt that you think of me as being closed-minded, we are talking about hockey here, not discrimination. LOL.
You're wearing blinders right over your eyes! Once again you are jumping to hilarious conclusions based on what you think you know. Richards/Carter = bad. CartsiePhan = good.

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05-23-2011, 01:47 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Because they are the core of the problem. Just because others will turn a blind eye these issues have been going on for a couple years now. Why did they remove pieces like Lupul and Upshall when all of the questions were brought up about those guys going out? It is one thing to question the reliability of an article or a claim, but how many times does it keep coming up that this team lacks a consistent performance on the ice and continuing off-ice questions? Every year. Coaches fired. Players get a pass. Questions about locker room issues, Pronger comes in, still the same questions. Just the tone of Timonen's response to getting ousted says a lot.
Yup, they're the problem. Doesn't matter that they played through pain in the playoffs. Doesn't matter that Richards was a huge part of Team Canada and Carter was the last cut, because guys like Babcock, Hitchcock, Yzerman, Lemaire, Ruff etc. are really dumb hockey guys and shouldn't have even had them on the radar.

Pronger has caused problems in the past and as Meltzer wrote on another site, is the most divisive guy in the dressing room. He doesn't get a lot of flack because the media is intimidated by him.

Jester and others corrected your ridiculous stance on the Upshall trade, which was all on Homer and his brutal cap management. Lupul had to be traded to make space for Pronger.

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05-23-2011, 01:48 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
The team under this group has been bipolar. One year they go to the ECF's, the next year they play inconsistent hockey, get bounced, coach is fired. Go to SCF's, come back play inconsistent hockey, people want to blame the GM and coach. There is reason for concern.
Ah, they were consistently inconsistent under Stevens. Under Lavy they've been pretty consistent... even when they're not playing great, they've been consistent in that as well.

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05-23-2011, 02:55 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Because they are the core of the problem.
Not to get involved in the middle of this **** storm, but the above statement is your opinion, and has been noted. Many, many times in many, many threads.

My issue with you isn't that you believe what you post (you could very well be correct). My issue with you is that you present what you post as being the only possible scenario that should be considered (and often present it as a statement of fact). That's not debating, and my guess is that is the issue that most on these boards have with you.

Seriously, take a step back and try to consider that, just maybe, your beliefs on what ails the Flyers and how to fix them might not be totally correct, and that others may just know what they are talking about from time to time.

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05-23-2011, 03:11 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Denial is not a river in the Ukraine.
Your joke is just as tired as the rest of your angle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
The issue of the two players is an important part of the conversation regarding the "Offseason", because for change to occur it seemls likely that one would have to go to address a major issue, which is goaltending.
Please, continue to bring it up in other threads if you feel it's so valid.

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Old
05-23-2011, 03:21 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Denial is not a river in the Ukraine.
You're inability to get this joke right is actually a very good metaphor for your inability to think of anything other than "Trade Richards/Carter".

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05-23-2011, 03:24 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I don't disagree. There are also a large number of variables that go into such a thing. It's crazy to point at any one thing and claim it to be THE problem.
I read from some insightful posters here that it is the GM and the coaches fault.

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05-23-2011, 03:26 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
You mean to say that teams don't perform exactly the same every season? Shocking.

edit: wait, I just noticed the second part. This team didn't play inconsistent hockey when they came back, they were dominant for half of the season. They carried over their play from the playoffs very nicely.
So what is the excuse for the pitfall over the last 20 games?

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05-23-2011, 03:29 PM
  #48
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I read from some insightful posters here that it is the GM and the coaches fault.
That's because a good portion of the fault DOES lie on the GM. How else would you explain that we don't have a goalie? A consistent face-off guy? A lack of cheap players that can contribute because of a lack of high-end draft picks? A revolving door of wingers around Richards? Cap hell that required us to send down one of our best forwards at the time because of an injury?

Blame doesn't necessarily have to fall on one person.

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05-23-2011, 03:30 PM
  #49
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Yup, they're the problem. Doesn't matter that they played through pain in the playoffs. Doesn't matter that Richards was a huge part of Team Canada and Carter was the last cut, because guys like Babcock, Hitchcock, Yzerman, Lemaire, Ruff etc. are really dumb hockey guys and shouldn't have even had them on the radar.

Pronger has caused problems in the past and as Meltzer wrote on another site, is the most divisive guy in the dressing room. He doesn't get a lot of flack because the media is intimidated by him.

Jester and others corrected your ridiculous stance on the Upshall trade, which was all on Homer and his brutal cap management. Lupul had to be traded to make space for Pronger.
Ohhh, I get it. This is really Prongers fault and the reason for the teams lack of effort is because Richie went to play in the Olympics. Ohhh, and you can bet your bottom dollar that Lupul was removed for two reasons: cap space and Homer wanted to remove some of the young core to make his point, stay focused. Upshall was more about the cap space, but same issue, he was part of the Hartnell, Carter, Richards crew.

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05-23-2011, 03:33 PM
  #50
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Ohhh, I get it. This is really Prongers fault and the reason for the teams lack of effort is because Richie went to play in the Olympics. Ohhh, and you can bet your bottom dollar that Lupul was removed for two reasons: cap space and Homer wanted to remove some of the young core to make his point, stay focused. Upshall was more about the cap space, but same issue, he was part of the Hartnell, Carter, Richards crew.
Ah, there was absolutely no way to keep Lupul if you were going to bring in a high budget defenseman. His 4.25M cap hit remains one of the more remarkable things Holmgren has done. I liked Lupul, but the moment he signed that deal (as you may remember, he signed that deal with a full year remaining on his previous deal) I said he was going to get traded most likely.

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