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Dave Cameron already has an NHL job?

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Old
05-23-2011, 11:34 AM
  #26
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Wouldn't mind him as an assistant coach. If he's the head coach, I'll flip.

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05-23-2011, 11:35 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
Mike Babcock had no NHL experience...
Bryan Murray in his tenure has hired
Paddock (Lasted like 50 games)
Hartsburgh (Lasted 48GP)
Clouston (lasted 116GP)

It's insanity to do the same thing over and over and over again.

How about bringing in a guy who has some sort of NHL track record...

Do we really want to be talking about hiring a new coach 8-10 months from now?

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05-23-2011, 11:43 AM
  #28
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got to agree with the fuhr on this one. our organization is going through a rebuild. we need stability at the helm. thats why i agree with murray resigning for 3 years and i would hope to have a coach with experience at the helm for something around that length of time. its going to be a learning process for the players, why make it a learning process for the coach.

if its not going to be someone with experience, at least have someone who's paid their dues such as kirk mueller. i would not be opposed to see cameron as an assistant but id rather not see him as the head coach.

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05-23-2011, 11:47 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Kid Canesten View Post
got to agree with the fuhr on this one. our organization is going through a rebuild. we need stability at the helm. thats why i agree with murray resigning for 3 years and i would hope to have a coach with experience at the helm for something around that length of time. its going to be a learning process for the players, why make it a learning process for the coach.

if its not going to be someone with experience, at least have someone who's paid their dues such as kirk mueller. i would not be opposed to see cameron as an assistant but id rather not see him as the head coach.

Who is Kirk Mueller? That's not even close to Muller.

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05-23-2011, 11:50 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
KK as head coach, Cameron assistant, Dineen assistant, or Bob Jones assistant
While I agree with your point about how we don't know if he will be a good coach, the recent track record of coaching here after a decade of Jacques Martin and continuity leaves people worried.

They tried the junior coach angle with Hartsburg and he lasted 4 months.

They brought up the minor league team's coach in Clouston and he was a disaster in the end with the players hating him.

Now there has been a huge roster turnover the last couple years, but there has to be a different approach this time. Even if Murray loved Cameron, the semantics of his relationship with Melnyk would sour people here pretty quick. It would look bad where it appears the owner is hiring the coach (obviously the owner gives final 'say', but I think you know what I mean). The fans and media will give this guy a short leash, especially the media, whom he has a lousy relationship with already in the Toronto area. Unless he is like Babcock, who is on pace to become a Hall of Fame coach, it will end poorly and quickly in my opinion.

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05-23-2011, 11:59 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
Bryan Murray in his tenure has hired
Paddock (Lasted like 50 games)
Hartsburgh (Lasted 48GP)
Clouston (lasted 116GP)

It's insanity to do the same thing over and over and over again.

How about bringing in a guy who has some sort of NHL track record...

Do we really want to be talking about hiring a new coach 8-10 months from now?
116 games for clouston? try 198.

You can't even get the numbers right. Not to mention the rest of your argument line is also misleading and polemic. "bubu gaize, three is perfectly good sample size."

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05-23-2011, 12:00 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Canesten View Post
got to agree with the fuhr on this one. our organization is going through a rebuild. we need stability at the helm. thats why i agree with murray resigning for 3 years and i would hope to have a coach with experience at the helm for something around that length of time. its going to be a learning process for the players, why make it a learning process for the coach.

if its not going to be someone with experience, at least have someone who's paid their dues such as kirk mueller. i would not be opposed to see cameron as an assistant but id rather not see him as the head coach.
You don't have the same reasons as Fuhr and they are much better reasons at that. Don't know why you felt the need to associate your position with his.

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05-23-2011, 12:08 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craven Morehead View Post
While I agree with your point about how we don't know if he will be a good coach, the recent track record of coaching here after a decade of Jacques Martin and continuity leaves people worried.

They tried the junior coach angle with Hartsburg and he lasted 4 months.

They brought up the minor league team's coach in Clouston and he was a disaster in the end with the players hating him.

Now there has been a huge roster turnover the last couple years, but there has to be a different approach this time. Even if Murray loved Cameron, the semantics of his relationship with Melnyk would sour people here pretty quick. It would look bad where it appears the owner is hiring the coach (obviously the owner gives final 'say', but I think you know what I mean). The fans and media will give this guy a short leash, especially the media, whom he has a lousy relationship with already in the Toronto area. Unless he is like Babcock, who is on pace to become a Hall of Fame coach, it will end poorly and quickly in my opinion.
Hartsburg isn't the typical junior coach angle. He coached in the NHL for a long time. IMO we haven't been there yet.

In reality Clouston was our only coach without NHL experience and he was initially brought in as interim coach.

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Old
05-23-2011, 12:10 PM
  #34
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Ugh...I though the Eug didn't get involved with personnel decisions?

#eugeneisadrunk

Cameron certainly wouldn't be my first choice as coach, but at least he has a good reputation in dealing with young players...and if the Sens are truly rebuilding, it might be a decent fit. That being said, I'm tired of Ottawa being the coaching carousel for junior coaches. Pathetic.

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05-23-2011, 12:53 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
I was talking about any coach where people say "I don't want this guy". Well, you're not a hockey person so it doesn't matter who you want. Anyways, with Cameron:

Pretty sure this year was his first WJC...and in Bingo, look who he had to work with.

Past results don't really dictate anything. Hartsburg won 2 WJC or whatevr it was and he sucked. So the opposite might be the best situation here.
In Bingo his first year was the lock out and he had a stacked team. In fact I think that year he co-coached with Paddock?

Anyway that team had a great year and then went out in the first round .

Next 2 years the team didnt make the playoffs, and seemed to be doing worse each year rather than improving.

He was detested by the fans to such an extent that reports indicated at the time that his move back to junior was a career saving rescue operation.

With his record, it is highly unlikley that he was next on anyones list for a call up to the NHL.

Cameron is sometimes described as another Hartsberg, but, you're right, Hartsberg has a much better resume than Cameron.

If the Sens dont hire him now, it seems unlikley that other teams wil be vying with each other to get his services.

Take a look a KK at Bingo.

He had to overcome a lot of adversity; call ups depleted Bingo as the Ottawa Sens imploded just as Bingo was struggling to stay in the playoff race, injuries and illness played havoc with the team during the playoffs.

He kept his team focused.Come back win in the first round. Takes the team to the Finals.

It seems more than likely that other NHL teams will be keeping their eye on KK.

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05-23-2011, 01:42 PM
  #36
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Cameron is the ultimate loser. No thank you.

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05-23-2011, 02:01 PM
  #37
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And to add to my previous post...Kleinendorst would be a preferable choice to Cameron IMO. He's obviously shown that he can work with young players - this season in Binghamton as well as when he coached the USA U-18 squad to a gold medal.

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05-23-2011, 02:05 PM
  #38
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I would actually consider Clouston a successful hire. He was an interm coach who did a good job in providing structure and ended up with a winning record despite dealing with a team in decline and that had many key injuries. The acknowledgement of him not being the main reason for the team's problems was the trading away of veterans. If it was simply a matter of coaching, Murray would of stayed the course and hired a replacement.

I am sure he will go on to a very good NHL coaching career.

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05-23-2011, 02:09 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mold Spore View Post
I would actually consider Clouston a successful hire. He was an interm coach who did a good job in providing structure and ended up with a winning record despite dealing with a team in decline and that had many key injuries. The acknowledgement of him not being the main reason for the team's problems was the trading away of veterans. If it was simply a matter of coaching, Murray would of stayed the course and hired a replacement.

I am sure he will go on to a very good NHL coaching career.

(all the players hated him and suffered through the worst years of their careers. ALL of them)

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05-23-2011, 02:28 PM
  #40
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Wow..the first thing that came to my mind was this scenario:

Melnyk: Do you want to come back as GM of the Sens?

Murray: Oh yes please please please!

Melnyk: I'll give you 3 more years as GM if you accept Cameron as the new head co..

Murray: DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE

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05-23-2011, 02:51 PM
  #41
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Don't want anything to do with Cameron. Not even an assistant...

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05-23-2011, 02:54 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mold Spore View Post
I would actually consider Clouston a successful hire. He was an interm coach who did a good job in providing structure and ended up with a winning record despite dealing with a team in decline and that had many key injuries. The acknowledgement of him not being the main reason for the team's problems was the trading away of veterans. If it was simply a matter of coaching, Murray would of stayed the course and hired a replacement.

I am sure he will go on to a very good NHL coaching career.
I wouldn't say he was successful, but I wouldn't say he was unsuccessful either. Mixed results, really. Agree that he'll be a good NHL coach (maybe as an assistant, maybe as a head coach)

I support KK for the next coach though. He'll be different than Clouston because he's not walking into an established dressing room, where every player has a role that they've held for quite a while. KK will be entering a room with a lot of young guys looking to find NHL roles, and the few vets left are all looking to rebound from a terrible season.

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05-23-2011, 03:01 PM
  #43
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(all the players hated him and suffered through the worst years of their careers. ALL of them)
He had a winning record with Elliot, Auld, and a constantly injured Leclaire as his starters. How can you ask for more?

He was a stopgap coach, and did pretty well with the cards dealt to him. Would the players have all hated him if the team was getting quality goaltending and they were a playoff team, it's hard to say.

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05-23-2011, 03:01 PM
  #44
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Word.

Did he really give Flick **** for the penalty after scoring the goal as TSN said in the highlights? If so, I hate him even more.
He gave Flick **** before he scored the goal, after he took his second penalty.

While Flick did need to be calmed down a little, I wasn't too impressed with how Cameron handled the kid.

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05-23-2011, 03:06 PM
  #45
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I think the "the Sens next coach absolutely must have NHL coaching experience" is kind of lame as there's just as good a chance you will hire a terrible coach with NHL experience as there is if you don't.

Fans are also being horribly inaccurate when stating that the Sens' last 3 coaches have no NHL experience since both Paddock and Hartsburg had both been head coaches in the NHL prior to taking the jobs with the Sens (Paddock also had NHL GM experience way back when). So there shouldn't be a rush to judgement based purely on "experience".

All that being said, there are several reasons why this particular coach (Cameron) without NHL experience is a horrible idea for this position. Let's put aside the fact that he has a relationship with Melnyk and look at some unbiased facts.

First: He's a head coach who has most recently shown that he cannot win the big games at the Junior level. If the Majors win the Memorial Cup, he'll at least have one under his belt but that would be after losing the OHL finals to one of the participants.

Second: His history with one of the Sens' top future building blocks, Jared Cowen is spotty at best. Cameron clearly dealt Cowen a blow of confidence in the previous year's WJHC and benched him for the better part of the tournament. Those biases definitely carried over to this year's tournament where despite Cowen's stellar play, he was often relegated to the 3rd pairing with a revolving partner. I for one, don't really feel that great about Cameron getting the ability to work with Cowen during his formative years in the NHL if that's how he's going to be treated. I can only imagine what Cowen thinks about the prospect of a man who clearly doesn't have confidence in him becoming his first pro head coach.

Third (and most important): His previous coaching experience in this organization was a complete and utter flameout. He was brought in to the AHL from Junior, allowed a one season transition period as associate coach to Paddock during the lockout year, and then, when left to his own devices the next 2 seasons, put the farm team in the cellar and had the fanbase and players actively rebelling against him by the end. Granted, this was a team very low on the talent level but he was unable to instill even a strong work ethic or system to overcome any of this and the dressing room was a poisonous environment under his watch.

Eugene can spin it all he likes, but Cameron did not do him a solid by returning to the Majors, he was rescued. With that kind of shoddy record on his resume, it's highly unlikely any NHL assistant or other AHL head coaching duties were in the offing for him. Going back to Junior was pretty much his only choice.

So, while I don't discount any potential head coaching candidate based on the league they currently are in, I see no reason why the Sens would seriously specifically consider Cameron given these facts. I can allow them giving him a courtesy interview, only as a favour to their owner but if they actually choose him as the head coach, it will only be looked at as a patronage appointment by Melnyk. Nothing else he has accomplished qualifies him as viable candidate.

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05-23-2011, 03:07 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
KK as head coach, Cameron assistant, Dineen assistant, or Bob Jones assistant
Read the bold text, ...then let the guy hire his staff.

The team is just starting a rebuild, they need a coach that has the ability to develop players, as well as get maximum effort. KK has shown he can do that, the job he has done with Binghamton is just amazing considering the circumstances.

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05-23-2011, 03:24 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post

Second: His history with one of the Sens' top future building blocks, Jared Cowen is spotty at best. Cameron clearly dealt Cowen a blow of confidence in the previous year's WJHC and benched him for the better part of the tournament. Those biases definitely carried over to this year's tournament where despite Cowen's stellar play, he was often relegated to the 3rd pairing with a revolving partner. I for one, don't really feel that great about Cameron getting the ability to work with Cowen during his formative years in the NHL if that's how he's going to be treated. I can only imagine what Cowen thinks about the prospect of a man who clearly doesn't have confidence in him becoming his first pro head coach.
Wrong, it was Willie Desjardins who was the coach who benched Cowen, and deservedly so because he wasn't very good.

Cameron ONLY head coached in this recent tournament, and Cowen was names one f Canada's best players. I'm sure he doesn't have a problem with him.

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05-23-2011, 03:32 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by pepty View Post
In Bingo his first year was the lock out and he had a stacked team. In fact I think that year he co-coached with Paddock?

Anyway that team had a great year and then went out in the first round .

Next 2 years the team didnt make the playoffs, and seemed to be doing worse each year rather than improving.

He was detested by the fans to such an extent that reports indicated at the time that his move back to junior was a career saving rescue operation.

With his record, it is highly unlikley that he was next on anyones list for a call up to the NHL.

Cameron is sometimes described as another Hartsberg, but, you're right, Hartsberg has a much better resume than Cameron.

If the Sens dont hire him now, it seems unlikley that other teams wil be vying with each other to get his services.

Take a look a KK at Bingo.

He had to overcome a lot of adversity; call ups depleted Bingo as the Ottawa Sens imploded just as Bingo was struggling to stay in the playoff race, injuries and illness played havoc with the team during the playoffs.

He kept his team focused.Come back win in the first round. Takes the team to the Finals.

It seems more than likely that other NHL teams will be keeping their eye on KK.
Yup, spot on..

I've heard the same reports earlier on as DC being a coach for Ottawa, what position don't know..but you can't overlook what efforts KK has done here this season, just a real pro, great communicator and has the players respect..

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05-23-2011, 03:39 PM
  #49
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Can only imagine every player in bingo would want to see kk in that role. That in itself speaks volumes....you gotta have a guy that the players have drive to succeed for. It always seems like kk is saying the right things, he can be hard on you but it's fair, but if you show good and earn respect, he'll go out of his way to make sure everyone knows you're coming through.

I'm not gonna dismiss him as a possible head, and id like him more as the head in bingo than Asst in Ottawa. But right now he's an ideal NHL Asst coach.

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05-23-2011, 03:49 PM
  #50
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Wrong, it was Willie Desjardins who was the coach who benched Cowen, and deservedly so because he wasn't very good.

Cameron ONLY head coached in this recent tournament, and Cowen was names one f Canada's best players. I'm sure he doesn't have a problem with him.
Cameron was the associate coach (not assistant) in the 2010 WJC's and in charge of the defense. Then he was the head coach in 2011 and consistently shafted Cowen with inferior partners and lower than normal ice time.

And you really didn't notice that Cowen was not being played in the most important situations this past year despite being named one of Canada's best players? There is clearly a lack of confidence being displayed by Cameron towards Cowen. It was all Sens fans talked about in either tournament. Check the archives if you want more evidence.

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