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Kesler for Seguin?

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Old
05-23-2011, 03:48 PM
  #76
Auger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
I'm assuming English isn't ur first language so I'll try to respond (if it is, well....).

Im comparing Bergeron and Kesler. Someone said Kesler is way better than Bergeron and he absolutely is not. Is he better? Of course. Way better? Nope.

And the Couture v. Seguin comparison is almost as bad as trading Kesler for Seguin. Couture is almost THREE years older than Seguin. THREE. Couture played FOUR years of Juniors, Seguin played TWO. Not saying Seguin will "omg absolutely be better than Courture Seguins so good go Segsss" but comapring two young players who are three years apart is just awful, and counterproductive.

And Kesler hasnt won any Selke yet, so I just thought it was funny to call Kesler an "eventual Selke winner."
Mod edit:

Edit: I mean im sure you know Kesler is pretty much a lock for the Selke as Timmy is for the Vezina so your comparison to Seguin and 90 points is just stupid

I was talking about how awful your comparison is. Even if it was said facetiously, this is a thread about Seguin for Kesler. Honestly did you just come into this thread to be completely off topic?

The problem here is, you're just defending Seguin, with that last part about Couture for Seguin. Who do you think most teams would want if they were giving up one of their proven roster players? Seguin a guy who could only muster 22 points in his rookie season or Couture who had 56 points in 7 more games. No one is arguing potential here because that's ridiculous you have no idea what his potential is. Im just dumbfounded how some of you Bruin fans can sit there and say Seguin for Kesler isn't gonna happen because Seguin has "potential"


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 05-24-2011 at 09:54 AM. Reason: Removed unnecessary comment
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Old
05-23-2011, 03:50 PM
  #77
WreckItRask
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Originally Posted by IAmCurryman View Post
I don't know if it's your Bruins-bias talking or what not, but Ryan Kesler is WAY better than Bergeron. A 40 goal scorer who can agitate, play the first units on any powerplay AND penalty kill and is one of the top 3 two-way players vs. a player who was ONCE a 30 goal scorer and a good two-way player. I say once because Bergeron's on his third or so concussion and if you simply compare Bergeron's best season with Kesler's, it's no match.
Seguin for Kesler wouldn't happen. Let's get that out of the way. Kesler is a proven commodity, Seguin is an unproven teenager, so Vancouver would never, ever, make that deal right now.

But I will disagree on the Kesler/Bergeron debate. Kesler's never even topped 30 goals until he got 40 this year, so it's a bit disingenuous to label him a "40-goal scorer" until he duplicates the action. It's the same mantra I've always held with everyone in the NHL...you don't earn a moniker like that until you do it regularly (more than once). Just like Oiler fans saying that Penner was a "30-goal scorer" after last year, just like if I tried to make the claim that Lucic is a "30-Goal scorer," etc. Until you can do something with some consistency, you don't earn the right to lay claim to it.

But in terms of the comparison, the only thing that Kesler has on Bergeron right now is point production. That's it. Bergeron is arguably the best faceoff man in the NHL, he's a dominant two-way center in all three zones, he's physical. Kesler scores more goals, and that's about the only thing you can point to. It's a significant category to be better in, don't get me wrong, but it's disingenuous to claim that Kesler is WAY better than Bergeron because it's not true.

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Old
05-23-2011, 04:04 PM
  #78
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auger View Post

Mod edit:

Edit: I mean im sure you know Kesler is pretty much a lock for the Selke as Timmy is for the Vezina so your comparison to Seguin and 90 points is just stupid

I was talking about how awful your comparison is. Even if it was said facetiously, this is a thread about Seguin for Kesler. Honestly did you just come into this thread to be completely off topic?

The problem here is, you're just defending Seguin, with that last part about Couture for Seguin. Who do you think most teams would want if they were giving up one of their proven roster players? Seguin a guy who could only muster 22 points in his rookie season or Couture who had 56 points in 7 more games. No one is arguing potential here because that's ridiculous you have no idea what his potential is. Im just dumbfounded how some of you Bruin fans can sit there and say Seguin for Kesler isn't gonna happen because Seguin has "potential"
Lol I'm off topic yet you managed to compare a 19 year old (that is part of the thread) to a 22 year old (who has nothing to do with the thread). Courture also played four seasons of juniors with a half a season of the AHL before his rookie season. Great comparison. Thumbs up.

What is potential then? Enlighten me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmCurryman View Post
I don't know if it's your Bruins-bias talking or what not, but Ryan Kesler is WAY better than Bergeron. A 40 goal scorer who can agitate, play the first units on any powerplay AND penalty kill and is one of the top 3 two-way players vs. a player who was ONCE a 30 goal scorer and a good two-way player. I say once because Bergeron's on his third or so concussion and if you simply compare Bergeron's best season with Kesler's, it's no match.

Seguin for Kesler? Bruins wouldn't hesitate for a second, Canucks would only do it after their whole front office gets lobotomized. A 40 goal scorer who has proven himself vs. a rookie who scored 22 points in 74 games. Seguin has LOADS of potential, but remember that Alexandre Daigle had loads of potential too. Jason Bonsignore had loads of potential as well. You can't access a player's skill level by his potential because potential is simply based on perception. Sure he has loads of potential but Kesler can be a first line center on 25 of the 30 teams.

A deal like this could very well turn into the Lindros trade. Eric Lindros was dealt for a huge 8 player package with a couple of first rounders and 15 million dollars, which at the time looked great but in the future, neither team could've predicted that Peter Forsberg would be as good as he was and would any sane man trade Lindros for Forsberg?
I'm not sure exactly what you mean here. If you mean post Bergeron concussions, then I guess you have a point. But as a whole, Bergerons best two seasons were 73 and 70 points, whereas Kesler was 75 and 73. Not that big a difference.

Again, no one is saying Bergeron is better than Kesler, but I firmly believe that they are closer than you think. Agree to disagree.

And I never said Vancouver shoudl do this deal. All I said was its a deal that doesnt make sense for either team right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Sanguine View Post
Seguin for Kesler wouldn't happen. Let's get that out of the way. Kesler is a proven commodity, Seguin is an unproven teenager, so Vancouver would never, ever, make that deal right now.

But I will disagree on the Kesler/Bergeron debate. Kesler's never even topped 30 goals until he got 40 this year, so it's a bit disingenuous to label him a "40-goal scorer" until he duplicates the action. It's the same mantra I've always held with everyone in the NHL...you don't earn a moniker like that until you do it regularly (more than once). Just like Oiler fans saying that Penner was a "30-goal scorer" after last year, just like if I tried to make the claim that Lucic is a "30-Goal scorer," etc. Until you can do something with some consistency, you don't earn the right to lay claim to it.

But in terms of the comparison, the only thing that Kesler has on Bergeron right now is point production. That's it. Bergeron is arguably the best faceoff man in the NHL, he's a dominant two-way center in all three zones, he's physical. Kesler scores more goals, and that's about the only thing you can point to. It's a significant category to be better in, don't get me wrong, but it's disingenuous to claim that Kesler is WAY better than Bergeron because it's not true.
Pretty much summed up my thoughts perfectly.

From Vancouvers POV this deal makes less than no sense, and from the Bruins POV it probably would never happen/still doesnt make that much sense.

I'd also argue that Kesler is faster and more offensively gifted than Bergeron, and also agitates and racks up a lot of PIMs, but other than that I still dont see how you can call Kesler WAY better than Bergeron. Ah well, agree to disagree.

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Old
05-23-2011, 04:35 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Lol I'm off topic yet you managed to compare a 19 year old (that is part of the thread) to a 22 year old (who has nothing to do with the thread). Courture also played four seasons of juniors with a half a season of the AHL before his rookie season. Great comparison. Thumbs up.

What is potential then? Enlighten me.
Well yes I am on topic, im talking about how ridiculous the proposal is. The Couture reference is one where im simply saying that this deal would still be stupid even if it was for Couture, who like Seguin is a rookie, and IMO the best rookie this year. Yes I realize that he's older, but from the POV of the Canucks why the hell would 3 years make a difference? if anything older would be better because at least he's more ready to play at the NHL level (physically). I said you're off topic because your posts don't even remotely relate back to the topic at hand, all you're doing is defending Bergeron who is not as good as Kesler anyways.

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Old
05-23-2011, 06:08 PM
  #80
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Counter-"shake-up" from Vancouver: Cory Schneider for Milan Lucic.

And if you don't think this is a similar proposal to the OP's, you've had too much of our precious BC Bud.

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Old
05-23-2011, 07:09 PM
  #81
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Both teams are loaded down the center, there is no reason for either team to do this.
Henrik Sedin, Ryan Kesler, Cody Hodgson.
Patrice Bergeron, David Krejci, Tyler Seguin.

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Old
05-23-2011, 07:25 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarrin8 View Post
no i doubt it , i see seguin being a way better player

now i could see bergeron + something for kelser but i dont think kesler is goin anywere



correction seguin will be better in the future and will have the better career!

keslers first crack at the nhl 03/04 28gms 5 pts
first full year in nhl 05/06 82gms 23 pts
he really only has been good the last 2 years with 75 and 73 points
AND
seguins first year 10/11 74 gms 22pts
playoffs---- 4gms 6 pts(3g 3a)

i believe seguin will hit 50 pts next year and then be a 65-90 point player the rest of his career while kesler didnt hit 50 points till he was 24, seguin will do it at 20!!!!
Look at Joe Thornton's rookie season and get back to me.

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Old
05-23-2011, 07:41 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by NorthVanCanuck View Post
Look at Joe Thornton's rookie season and get back to me.
Thornton's no Joe Juneau.

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Old
05-23-2011, 10:20 PM
  #84
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I would love it if Vancouver did this deal...but they never would even consider it. Would Boston fans trade Bergeron for Hodgson?

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Old
05-24-2011, 08:55 AM
  #85
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auger View Post
Well yes I am on topic, im talking about how ridiculous the proposal is. The Couture reference is one where im simply saying that this deal would still be stupid even if it was for Couture, who like Seguin is a rookie, and IMO the best rookie this year. Yes I realize that he's older, but from the POV of the Canucks why the hell would 3 years make a difference? if anything older would be better because at least he's more ready to play at the NHL level (physically). I said you're off topic because your posts don't even remotely relate back to the topic at hand, all you're doing is defending Bergeron who is not as good as Kesler anyways.
Of course the proposal is ridiculous, which I said before in the "makes less than zero sense to Vancouver" comment. And of course it would still "makes less than zero sense to Vancouver" for Couture.

So the basic jist of your post is saying it would be less ridiculous for Vancouver to trade Kesler for Couture than Seguin...awesome? Good conclusion there. I also find it funny that youre the one who brought Courture up from the start, yet somehow I'M off topic for debating with someone when someone ELSE brought up Bergy/Kesler. And you don't even understand the debate which is why I'm not offended in the least by your high school drop out (not even close to one btw) comment lol. I'm only sayign that I think the gap between Kesler and Bergy is smaller than a lot of fans think, but I agreed to disagree.

I'm glad I wasted my time with this, now I know that A. the trade is bad and B. that it would be less bad for Couture. Thumbs up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
I would love it if Vancouver did this deal...but they never would even consider it. Would Boston fans trade Bergeron for Hodgson?
If Boston was trying to shed salary then theyd probably do this, but I doubt Vancouver would. Bergy is too prone to concussions to have any real significant trade value. Hes worth way more to the Bruins than he could be to anyone else.

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