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05-23-2011, 03:52 PM
  #51
Melnyks Mirage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
Mike Babcock had no NHL experience...
Babcock didn't get it done with the Ducks though. He had to leave a Bryan Murray environment to become a winner (something of a commonality, when Murray leaves or players/coaches leave Murray they tend to win or do better, strange that).

P.S. I keep hearing "Anaheim this Anaheim that" with Murray; that's nice, but please get off your wrinkly ass and get it done here if you got it done in Anaheim, because right now no playoffs or out in the first every year is proving your rep is built on a house of cards, B-Murr.

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Originally Posted by CR15 View Post
I fail to see how it can be spun in anyway other then Melnyk putting personal relationships ahead of good buisness if he is hired by the Sens.

What has Dave Cameron done behind the bench to be the must have guy out of the O or CHL ? nothing up until this year where he has allowed his team to blow the gold medal game and squander a 2-0 lead in the OHL finals. I would hope that he has to pull off the mem cup to even get considered as a finalist
Melnyk cares about LOYALTY more than he cares about RESULTS.
That is why Murray is still here despite the team being akin to Barnum & Bailey's the past four years and why Cameron is going to be our head coach.

Remember that Melnyk is not a hockey "guy" he is a hockey "enthusiast". For Melnyk to find the right coach would require more than having them go to Barbados, sip a "Huge Euge" and then go back home. There would need to be deep analysis of records, interviews with current and former players, sounding boards from hockey-tuned media, in short a heckuva lot more work than what's going on here.

**** CAMERON.

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05-23-2011, 04:06 PM
  #52
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Bryan Murray in his tenure has hired
Paddock (Lasted like 50 games)
Hartsburgh (Lasted 48GP)
Clouston (lasted 198GP)


It's insanity to do the same thing over and over and over again.

How about bringing in a guy who has some sort of NHL track record...

Do we really want to be talking about hiring a new coach 8-10 months from now?
Well we might be if Dave Cameron is hired. It will also make me wonder if the two I bolded weren't also Eugene's idea, since he interviewed Hartsburg and gushed profusely about Clouston after giving him a two year deal.

I don't think NHL experience is necessary, guys have to start sometime. But I do think being a head coach at the AHL level and having a level of success is very important.

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05-23-2011, 04:06 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
Cameron was the associate coach (not assistant) in the 2010 WJC's and in charge of the defense. Then he was the head coach in 2011 and consistently shafted Cowen with inferior partners and lower than normal ice time.

And you really didn't notice that Cowen was not being played in the most important situations this past year despite being named one of Canada's best players? There is clearly a lack of confidence being displayed by Cameron towards Cowen. It was all Sens fans talked about in either tournament. Check the archives if you want more evidence.
He was an assistant, not an associate. I don't believe he was in charge of the defense.

Cowen played with Barrie, and they developed chemistry. He was utilized just fine, clearly, because he was named one of their best players, like I just said. Ryan Ellis was better than him, and that's why he got more minutes. There are no "inferior" partners, it's the top u20 tourney in the world. Every d-man Canada had was a good d-man.

Sens fans start a hissy fit when their prospects/players aren't played the most for all of us to see. Happened with them *****ing about Silfverberg and Rundblad not being played enough in the Worlds.

Seriously, even if Cowen got "less minutes than normal", who cares, it was a WJ tournament. Only so much ice time can be dished out.

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05-23-2011, 04:22 PM
  #54
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He was the associate coach, look it up. Actually I'll do it for you since you seem incapable of stating actual facts.

http://www.hockeycanada.ca/index.php...58/la_id/1.htm

Cowen played with at least 4 different partners throughout this year's tournament. And Barrie was not a good partner, he was directly responsible for a number of breakdowns that led to opponent goals. Cowen was often left on his own.

At the start of the tournament, most pundits (TSN etc) had Cowen and Gudbranson as the logical shut down pairing who would be out against the other team's top line and log huge minutes. Ellis and De Haan would be the offensive pairing and log the majority of the PP time. Almost immediately, Gudbranson got paired with Despres and Cowen often played in the 3rd pairing with rotating partners every game (Olsen, Barrie and Despres) even though he was clearly the best defensive option to shut down the other team's top line. Despite all the uncertainty with his role, Cowen was still consistently awesome but they really dropped the ball in the way they played him.

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05-23-2011, 04:38 PM
  #55
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I hope we didn't hire Cameron or Gallant over Kleindorst. That's all I can say right now while we sit and spin, waiting for an announcement.

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05-23-2011, 05:00 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
He was the associate coach, look it up. Actually I'll do it for you since you seem incapable of stating actual facts.

http://www.hockeycanada.ca/index.php...58/la_id/1.htm

Cowen played with at least 4 different partners throughout this year's tournament. And Barrie was not a good partner, he was directly responsible for a number of breakdowns that led to opponent goals. Cowen was often left on his own.

At the start of the tournament, most pundits (TSN etc) had Cowen and Gudbranson as the logical shut down pairing who would be out against the other team's top line and log huge minutes. Ellis and De Haan would be the offensive pairing and log the majority of the PP time. Almost immediately, Gudbranson got paired with Despres and Cowen often played in the 3rd pairing with rotating partners every game (Olsen, Barrie and Despres) even though he was clearly the best defensive option to shut down the other team's top line. Despite all the uncertainty with his role, Cowen was still consistently awesome but they really dropped the ball in the way they played him.
Who gives a damn, associate, assistant, same ****ing thing, but TSN had him as an assistant: http://www.tsn.ca/world_jrs/feature/?id=13609

And, again, who gives a flying **** who they paired Cowen with. it was CLEARLY working the whole tournament except for one period of the gold medal game, where Cowen actually looked pretty bad at the end. You're making it a big deal when it really isn't at all. They didn't drop the ball, it worked.

Cowen looked average at the beginning of the tourney, but then he found chemistry with Barrie and they played together for the entire "playoffs".

If Cowen was actually mad at Dave Cameron then **** him, grow a pair and play the role you're given. I doubt he even cares about that though, as most people will say hey, it's the WJ I will do whatever the coach tells me. It's a short tourney, no big deal.

Most people saying "OH NO NOT CAMERON!" are talking out of their ass and don't "like" him based on a couple of 1-game losses. That could happen to any coach. Muller has never had the opportunity to coach in those big games yet he apparently is a ton better than Cameron. Go figure.

People claiming who would and who wouldn't be good as coach, don't really know what they're talking about at all. There's a fact for you. I won't begin to say who I think would work, I'll just wait until they actually hire somebody.

BUT as of right now, I would like it to be KK. If not, no big deal, I'm not the person hiring the coach.


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Old
05-23-2011, 05:13 PM
  #57
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Admittedly, there's a lot more to Cameron than the WJC. He's been unbelievably successful coaching in the OHL - which as we say with the 67s, can be a challenge from time to time. Yet, he had his team prepared for every single game of every single round and barely missed winning the OHL title. What is it that bugs people so much about him?*

*I realize that this is probably rhetorical, I saw the same 3rd period collapse at the WJC as everyone else and I judged him on that in a big way, but...that was as much the players crapping themselves as it was the coach (not taking the timeout at the right time!).

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05-23-2011, 05:54 PM
  #58
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BTW. Last Bingo coach to be in the playoffs before KK? Cameron who coached the lockout 04-05 team. Lost in the 1st round. If anyone is wondering, the best Eastern Conference team that year, the Monarchs coached by Bruce Boudreau lost in the 1st round as well.

And the 2005-06 and 2006-07 teams he coached to such a bad record? The only two prospects that have made a dent in the NHL from those teams were Bochenski and Eaves. The goalies included Guard and Glass. Saying those teams had very little talent is like saying the titanic ran into an ice cube. They had NO talent. Is it any wonder the W/L record of those teams was so bad?

Cameron is a legitimate candidate for an NHL coaching job. If De Boers got one, Cameron can certainly be considered as well.

I had forgotten that Hamilton's coach is Randy Cunneyworth. Another potential candidate that should receive some consideration I would think.

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05-23-2011, 06:08 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickabrat View Post
BTW. Last Bingo coach to be in the playoffs before KK? Cameron who coached the lockout 04-05 team. Lost in the 1st round. If anyone is wondering, the best Eastern Conference team that year, the Monarchs coached by Bruce Boudreau lost in the 1st round as well.
As mentioned on multiple occasions, the 04/05 Bingo team was during the lockout and included Spezza, Volchenkov and Vermette (pretty much an All-Star team). They flamed out in the 1st round.

Additionally, Cameron was the associate coach that year with Paddock who had been the head coach for the previous few seasons and had led those teams to very respectable results. Cameron can take little to no credit for that season.

However, as soon as he did get full reign of the team, he immediately sank it into the basement so he's got that on his resume (from 106 points in the lockout year to 78 points and then 55). FYI, when Clouston arrived, the team immediately began it's climb back into respectability. They never made the playoffs in those 2 seasons but they were right in the mix both years. With a little more help from the parent club (an AHL veteran signing or two), they would have made the playoffs easily.

Clouston took the a team that looked very similar to Cameron's 55 point abomination and lead them to an 82 point and then 91 point season. Clouston didn't fare well as an NHL head coach with those AHL results on his resume yet Cameron deserves to be handed the job because...?

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05-23-2011, 07:17 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
As mentioned on multiple occasions, the 04/05 Bingo team was during the lockout and included Spezza, Volchenkov and Vermette (pretty much an All-Star team). They flamed out in the 1st round.

Additionally, Cameron was the associate coach that year with Paddock who had been the head coach for the previous few seasons and had led those teams to very respectable results. Cameron can take little to no credit for that season.

However, as soon as he did get full reign of the team, he immediately sank it into the basement so he's got that on his resume (from 106 points in the lockout year to 78 points and then 55). FYI, when Clouston arrived, the team immediately began it's climb back into respectability. They never made the playoffs in those 2 seasons but they were right in the mix both years. With a little more help from the parent club (an AHL veteran signing or two), they would have made the playoffs easily.

Clouston took the a team that looked very similar to Cameron's 55 point abomination and lead them to an 82 point and then 91 point season. Clouston didn't fare well as an NHL head coach with those AHL results on his resume yet Cameron deserves to be handed the job because...?
Now you see this is where I have a problem. In your original post you wrote:
Quote:
Let's put aside the fact that he has a relationship with Melnyk and look at some unbiased facts.
So let's do that. In 2004-05, Cameron was co-head coach with Paddock And the only reason Paddock was there was because of the lock-out. Cameron was the head coach, but Paddock was still there waiting to become the asst coach in Ottawa, so they used co-head coaches, but Cameron was hired to be the coach and would have been there by himself had there been no lock out since Paddock would have headed to the NHL the moment the lock out was resolved which at the time was not expected to last a full season.

In the Bingo press release announcing Cameron's return to the Majors, they wrote:

Quote:
The 48-year old native of Kinkora, P.E.I. led the Binghamton Senators to a 105-106-16-13 record in three seasons as head coach, including a franchise record 47 wins, 106 points and a East Division championship in 2004-05.
That is what I would call an unbiased fact. And I also point out another unbiased fact, Bruce Boudreau who had a better record than Cameron also lost in the first round that year also with players who should have been in the NHL if not for the lock out.

As for the 2nd and 3rd year of his tenure, I'll give you another unbiased fact. Cameron had NO ONE on those teams that could be considered an NHL player or even a potential NHL player other than Eaves or Bochenski. Scotty Bowman would have ended up in the basement with the players on those teams. And Cameron in his 2nd year, came up 7 points short of a playoff spot. Hardly the basement.

As for Clouston resurrecting the fortunes of the franchise, it is no coincidence that Bryan and Tim Murray had started the rebuild of Bingo Sens and actually provided him with real AHL players not ECHL rejects like Muckler had done.

If Cameron had stayed in Bingo instead of going back to the Majors to help out Melnyk, Cameron would have been the next head coach of the Ottawa Sens not Clouston. Is there any wonder why Melnyk feels some sort of debt to Cameron? Murray will make the final decision, but there is no doubt in my mind that Cameron is worthy of consideration for the position. Whether or not he's the best guy for the job, only Murray can tell us.

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05-23-2011, 07:24 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Well we might be if Dave Cameron is hired. It will also make me wonder if the two I bolded weren't also Eugene's idea, since he interviewed Hartsburg and gushed profusely about Clouston after giving him a two year deal.

I don't think NHL experience is necessary, guys have to start sometime. But I do think being a head coach at the AHL level and having a level of success is very important.
Thx for the number correction... it looked off when I posted it... missed a season but to be fair all the losing has become a long blur.

I agree experience is not necessary but having a bunch would put my mind at ease that we would not be looking for another coach in a few more months.

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05-23-2011, 08:07 PM
  #62
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Honestly, gotta agree with what most people say around here.

I would rather have a Coach with at least some success/experience in the NHL.

The way I'd like it is, a coach with experience, assistant coaches with good track record with young players (I have NO clue who that would be), and honestly, if Cameron is an assistant, I will be ok with that. But I for sure don't want him as a head coach.

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05-23-2011, 10:52 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Kickabrat View Post


So let's do that. In 2004-05, Cameron was co-head coach with Paddock And the only reason Paddock was there was because of the lock-out. Cameron was the head coach, but Paddock was still there waiting to become the asst coach in Ottawa, so they used co-head coaches, but Cameron was hired to be the coach and would have been there by himself had there been no lock out since Paddock would have headed to the NHL the moment the lock out was resolved which at the time was not expected to last a full season.
OK, you're a player on a team with a head coach that has been there for the past 3-4 years and has lead you to very strong results. The lockout takes place and the team hires another coach but leaves the existing head coach there and they both work as Associate head coaches for that season. Who's running the show? Really. The new Junior guy, or the guy who's been the coach all along the way. A guy they didn't bother to call an Assistant coach but an Associate coach. I know who I'm paying attention to and who's really calling the shots. The other guy is just in training until the big kahuna leaves.

And even if you don't want to believe that, it was an All-Star team, filled with NHL players who ran away with the regular season and then crapped out in the first round. If I'm Cameron, is that something I really want to take ownership of on my resume?


Quote:
And I also point out another unbiased fact, Bruce Boudreau who had a better record than Cameron also lost in the first round that year also with players who should have been in the NHL if not for the lock out.
Well if that was all Bruce Boudreau had accomplished at the AHL level, then he never would have been considered for an NHL job. Fortunately for him, he had some great subsequent seasons in the role of AHL head coach that made him a viable candidate for the Washington head coaching job when it became available.

I have no idea what your point is here. If you're trying to compare the accomplishments of these two coaches at the AHL level, Boudreau wins by TKO.

Quote:
As for the 2nd and 3rd year of his tenure, I'll give you another unbiased fact. Cameron had NO ONE on those teams that could be considered an NHL player or even a potential NHL player other than Eaves or Bochenski. Scotty Bowman would have ended up in the basement with the players on those teams. And Cameron in his 2nd year, came up 7 points short of a playoff spot. Hardly the basement.

As for Clouston resurrecting the fortunes of the franchise, it is no coincidence that Bryan and Tim Murray had started the rebuild of Bingo Sens and actually provided him with real AHL players not ECHL rejects like Muckler had done.

If Cameron had stayed in Bingo instead of going back to the Majors to help out Melnyk, Cameron would have been the next head coach of the Ottawa Sens not Clouston. Is there any wonder why Melnyk feels some sort of debt to Cameron? Murray will make the final decision, but there is no doubt in my mind that Cameron is worthy of consideration for the position. Whether or not he's the best guy for the job, only Murray can tell us.
So nothing appeared fishy to you that a team that Cameron had developed into a 55 point disgrace, suddenly became a playoff contender the minute another coach stepped in and this was simply because Bryan and Tim Murray took on the Management duties that year? In my experience, a management change tends to yield results over the longer term whereas a coaching change tends to yield more short term results. Look at those 2 rosters and you won't see a team that suddenly became awesome. They just had a better coach installed and the poisonous toxic dressing room dynamic was changed.

Ask anyone associated with the Bingo franchise how they felt Dave Cameron conducted himself and lead that team over his tenure. I'm sure they've got nothing but love.

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05-23-2011, 11:06 PM
  #64
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Before we dive into more semantics (I've never had to explain what an Associate Head Coach is to so many people), let's take a step back and recognize that even Cameron's staunchest defenders can only build him up by completely excusing his failed AHL run to not being set up for success.

Even if that is the case and we can agree that he couldn't succeed at the AHL level because of circumstances out of his control, why are we still considering him as a viable NHL head coaching candidate? How about he gets another chance to prove himself at the AHL level where he failed before? Maybe he can be an Assistant coach at the NHL and show that he can succeed in that role.

Why is coaching a stacked Junior team and blowing Gold Medals at the World Juniors with stacked Canadian teams all this guy needs to fill an NHL head coaching job? He can go try to rehab his image with some other franchise, I'd prefer more of a sure thing.

Also, if he's such a valuable commodity, why aren't other NHL teams coming to call on him for their head coaching vacancies? I know I hear that he's a shoe-in for the Ottawa job (primarily because Eugene has all but given it to him) but I've never heard him connected to another team. When Peter DeBoer was out there, he was courted by multiple teams. I have never heard even an iota of interest from anyone outside of Eugene Melnyk and his team.

If he is named the Sens next coach, it will clearly not be on merit, it will be a patronage appointment. The majority of the fanbase will see it this way. If I'm Dave Cameron, I wouldn't want to get my job that way. But he sounds like an arrogant jackass in any interview I've seen from him so I don't think he gives a **** anyways.

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05-23-2011, 11:26 PM
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Who is Kirk Mueller? That's not even close to Muller.
calm down rog, one extra letter.

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05-24-2011, 08:40 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
OK, you're a player on a team with a head coach that has been there for the past 3-4 years and has lead you to very strong results. The lockout takes place and the team hires another coach but leaves the existing head coach there and they both work as Associate head coaches for that season. Who's running the show? Really. The new Junior guy, or the guy who's been the coach all along the way. A guy they didn't bother to call an Assistant coach but an Associate coach. I know who I'm paying attention to and who's really calling the shots. The other guy is just in training until the big kahuna leaves.

And even if you don't want to believe that, it was an All-Star team, filled with NHL players who ran away with the regular season and then crapped out in the first round. If I'm Cameron, is that something I really want to take ownership of on my resume?

Well if that was all Bruce Boudreau had accomplished at the AHL level, then he never would have been considered for an NHL job. Fortunately for him, he had some great subsequent seasons in the role of AHL head coach that made him a viable candidate for the Washington head coaching job when it became available.

I have no idea what your point is here. If you're trying to compare the accomplishments of these two coaches at the AHL level, Boudreau wins by TKO.

So nothing appeared fishy to you that a team that Cameron had developed into a 55 point disgrace, suddenly became a playoff contender the minute another coach stepped in and this was simply because Bryan and Tim Murray took on the Management duties that year? In my experience, a management change tends to yield results over the longer term whereas a coaching change tends to yield more short term results. Look at those 2 rosters and you won't see a team that suddenly became awesome. They just had a better coach installed and the poisonous toxic dressing room dynamic was changed.

Ask anyone associated with the Bingo franchise how they felt Dave Cameron conducted himself and lead that team over his tenure. I'm sure they've got nothing but love.
Cameron WAS HIRED AS THE HEAD COACH. Paddock was hired as an assistant coach in Ottawa and only stayed on because of the lockout and to help out in the transition. PADDOCK WAS NO LONGER THE HEAD COACH IN BINGO. The Sens wanted as many bodies as possible to keep busy so Paddock stayed on and was going to move to Ottawa as soon as the lockout was over. Nobody expected it to last the season. Read the damn press release I posted for you if you don't believe that Cameron was the head coach. I am giving you a fact based on actual link and you provide your supposition that it was Paddock who was the coach. what you are writing is not an "unbiased fact" it's your own supposition.

I point out Boudreaux because he also had a great team and was a good AHL coach and he still lost in the 1st round. Point being, sometimes good teams lose and it's not always solely due to the coach. And the Bingo Sens did NOT run away with the regular season, look up the standings. They won their division by 3pts and in fact had the 4th best record in the league that year. You make it sound like the Sens were the only team who had the brains to send down all eligible players to the minors that year. All the teams that could sent their best young players down. Plus any veteran UFAs that wanted to play instead of staying home waiting.

But regardless of all this, the most inane thing you write is:
Quote:
So nothing appeared fishy to you that a team that Cameron had developed into a 55 point disgrace, suddenly became a playoff contender the minute another coach stepped in and this was simply because Bryan and Tim Murray took on the Management duties that year?
Did you even look at the roster of that 55 point team? The personnel on that team would have had trouble winning a house league championship. Tim Murray immediately started to make changes, but because he was hired late, he was somewhat hamstrung, but still manged to upgrade from a little league team to a semi professional one. He brought in a bunch of AHL vets that actually had some talent and to supplement the ridiculously thin prospect pool. So what I'm saying is, that yes, amazingly enough, the players that management puts in place have a great deal to do with the results a team will achieve. Greater than a head coach will.

Quote:
In my experience, a management change tends to yield results over the longer term whereas a coaching change tends to yield more short term results. Look at those 2 rosters and you won't see a team that suddenly became awesome. They just had a better coach installed and the poisonous toxic dressing room dynamic was changed.
Ask anyone associated with the Bingo franchise how they felt Dave Cameron conducted himself and lead that team over his tenure. I'm sure they've got nothing but love.
And what experience is that? Again, no facts just your supposition. Take a good look at those 2 rosters and look at the career AHL/NHL stats of the players on those teams. Again, facts versus your suppositions. And were you in the dressing room that year? Who are these "anyone's" associated with Bingo. You mean the rabid bingo fan base on these boards? If you want I can link you to a couple of people associated with Bingo, (Tim and Bryan Murray, Melnyk) who have never said any such things. So your "anyone" associated with Bingo statement rings quite a bit hollow.

If you have any proof of this poisonous locker room etc., show us. All I see is your supposition. I have yet to see you write anything that resembles an "unbiased fact" as you yourself called it. Until you do, all you are giving us is your opinion. Which is fine, but don't try to pawn it off as giving us some "unbiased facts".

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05-24-2011, 08:54 AM
  #67
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They talked about this again on Team 1200 this morning; The J.R. surmised that Cameron indeed had the job and that they were waiting for the end of the Mem Cup to announce. Others posited that no one had been interviewed, debate as to whether the interviews were hush hush, laughter as statements Murray/Melnyk aren't known for discretion.

Ah well, it's a growth movement, so what if Cameron screams his head off at Karlsson, Spezza, Butler, Cowan...

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05-24-2011, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickabrat View Post
Cameron WAS HIRED AS THE HEAD COACH. Paddock was hired as an assistant coach in Ottawa and only stayed on because of the lockout and to help out in the transition. PADDOCK WAS NO LONGER THE HEAD COACH IN BINGO. The Sens wanted as many bodies as possible to keep busy so Paddock stayed on and was going to move to Ottawa as soon as the lockout was over. Nobody expected it to last the season. Read the damn press release I posted for you if you don't believe that Cameron was the head coach. I am giving you a fact based on actual link and you provide your supposition that it was Paddock who was the coach. what you are writing is not an "unbiased fact" it's your own supposition.

I point out Boudreaux because he also had a great team and was a good AHL coach and he still lost in the 1st round. Point being, sometimes good teams lose and it's not always solely due to the coach. And the Bingo Sens did NOT run away with the regular season, look up the standings. They won their division by 3pts and in fact had the 4th best record in the league that year. You make it sound like the Sens were the only team who had the brains to send down all eligible players to the minors that year. All the teams that could sent their best young players down. Plus any veteran UFAs that wanted to play instead of staying home waiting.

But regardless of all this, the most inane thing you write is:


Did you even look at the roster of that 55 point team? The personnel on that team would have had trouble winning a house league championship. Tim Murray immediately started to make changes, but because he was hired late, he was somewhat hamstrung, but still manged to upgrade from a little league team to a semi professional one. He brought in a bunch of AHL vets that actually had some talent and to supplement the ridiculously thin prospect pool. So what I'm saying is, that yes, amazingly enough, the players that management puts in place have a great deal to do with the results a team will achieve. Greater than a head coach will.


And what experience is that? Again, no facts just your supposition. Take a good look at those 2 rosters and look at the career AHL/NHL stats of the players on those teams. Again, facts versus your suppositions. And were you in the dressing room that year? Who are these "anyone's" associated with Bingo. You mean the rabid bingo fan base on these boards? If you want I can link you to a couple of people associated with Bingo, (Tim and Bryan Murray, Melnyk) who have never said any such things. So your "anyone" associated with Bingo statement rings quite a bit hollow.

If you have any proof of this poisonous locker room etc., show us. All I see is your supposition. I have yet to see you write anything that resembles an "unbiased fact" as you yourself called it. Until you do, all you are giving us is your opinion. Which is fine, but don't try to pawn it off as giving us some "unbiased facts".
My only comment is on the small part I bolded. Coaches can, do and are paid to make a difference, look no further than NJ and Lemaire. Closer to home, look what KK accomplished with a roster depleted by half, filled with ECHL players and players on professional tryout contracts.

I think you are under estimating the value added a good coach brings to a team.

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05-24-2011, 09:25 AM
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The french guys on CKAC had called the Murray extension AND the Cameron HC hiring a couple of days before it all began. No surprises here.

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05-24-2011, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickabrat View Post
. Again, facts versus your suppositions. And were you in the dressing room that year? Who are these "anyone's" associated with Bingo. You mean the rabid bingo fan base on these boards? If you want I can link you to a couple of people associated with Bingo, (Tim and Bryan Murray, Melnyk) who have never said any such things. So your "anyone" associated with Bingo statement rings quite a bit hollow. ".
Some of your arguments don't really advance your case.

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05-24-2011, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Some of your arguments don't really advance your case.
Sorry are you saying the Murrays and Melnyk are NOT associated with Bingo? Have you heard or seen anything in writing from any players or coaches from that team indicating there was discord in the room caused by Cameron? Does anyone out there have any "unbiased facts" that would bear out the statement that the room was in total chaos? please show us if anyone does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe
My only comment is on the small part I bolded. Coaches can, do and are paid to make a difference, look no further than NJ and Lemaire. Closer to home, look what KK accomplished with a roster depleted by half, filled with ECHL players and players on professional tryout contracts.

I think you are under estimating the value added a good coach brings to a team.
I'm not underestimating it. I'm just saying that the players have a lot more to do with performance than the coach. You can have Scotty Bowman coaching an ECHL team, and they still would end up in last place in the NHL. Give him a competitive team and maybe he has a chance. Cameron had zero to work with on that place team.

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05-24-2011, 09:47 AM
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Yeah, I don't get how you're so hung up about the lockout year. Of course the plan was for Cameron to be the head coach, I can read the press release. They would have never purposely set up the situation of having the old coach stick around to co-coach with the new one. But circumstances developed that made it a reality.

And as I stated, even if you wish to ignore the fact that the previous head coach was standing beside him every game that season, I don't see how he can be overly proud of how that season went seeing as though they won their division with a stacked All-Star team and then went out meekly in the 1st round of the playoffs.

And spin the next 2 years however you like. It wasn't a good team talent wise and he did absolutely nothing to make the situation any better. Regardless, his AHL experience was a terrible one. I think the next logical step for him would be to right that wrong, go in and have tons of success with an AHL team to show that he can coach pros. I don't think he deserves to be promoted directly into an NHL head coaching job.

You are arguing the wrong things here. Look at his resume. Outside of him being Melnyk's buddy, what leaps out at you as qualifications that make that appointment a good idea?

I don't necessarily think that Kleinendorst is the perfect candidate but at least in the past 2 years he has coached the Under 18 US team to a Gold Medal and taken an AHL team that was out of the playoffs the last 5 years and was severely undermanned most of the season because of callups and injuries and lead them straight to the Calder Cup finals. Even if they don't end up winning, that's impressive. Why do I even give a loser like Cameron the time of day if I've already got this guy in my organization?

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05-24-2011, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
Yeah, I don't get how you're so hung up about the lockout year. Of course the plan was for Cameron to be the head coach, I can read the press release. They would have never purposely set up the situation of having the old coach stick around to co-coach with the new one. But circumstances developed that made it a reality.

And as I stated, even if you wish to ignore the fact that the previous head coach was standing beside him every game that season, I don't see how he can be overly proud of how that season went seeing as though they won their division with a stacked All-Star team and then went out meekly in the 1st round of the playoffs.

And spin the next 2 years however you like. It wasn't a good team talent wise and he did absolutely nothing to make the situation any better. Regardless, his AHL experience was a terrible one. I think the next logical step for him would be to right that wrong, go in and have tons of success with an AHL team to show that he can coach pros. I don't think he deserves to be promoted directly into an NHL head coaching job.

You are arguing the wrong things here. Look at his resume. Outside of him being Melnyk's buddy, what leaps out at you as qualifications that make that appointment a good idea?

I don't necessarily think that Kleinendorst is the perfect candidate but at least in the past 2 years he has coached the Under 18 US team to a Gold Medal and taken an AHL team that was out of the playoffs the last 5 years and was severely undermanned most of the season because of callups and injuries and lead them straight to the Calder Cup finals. Even if they don't end up winning, that's impressive. Why do I even give a loser like Cameron the time of day if I've already got this guy in my organization?
And you're missing my point. I never wrote Cameron was the guy or a great coach, what I wrote was that his resume was sufficient to get him under consideration. Never said he was the guy I wanted or the right guy, etc. My problem is that in your original post you wrote that you were going to give us some "unbiased facts" and then went on to give us a bunch of supposition. I am not arguing with your suppositions or your opinion. I am stating that, what you gave us were in fact your biased opinions and NOT unbiased facts.

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05-24-2011, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
...I don't necessarily think that Kleinendorst is the perfect candidate but at least in the past 2 years he has coached the Under 18 US team to a Gold Medal and taken an AHL team that was out of the playoffs the last 5 years and was severely undermanned most of the season because of callups and injuries and lead them straight to the Calder Cup finals. Even if they don't end up winning, that's impressive. Why do I even give a loser like Cameron the time of day if I've already got this guy in my organization?
This! And I'd prefer KK as an assistant with Dineen to start under Muller.

Let Cameron go anywhere else, just not here. Someone said Florida - great, go there...

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05-24-2011, 10:01 AM
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Great, another freaking junior coach. Hartsburg II.

Do you think the veterans will tune out Cameron when he yells and screams at them? Do you think Cameron will allow his D to pass up the middle? Do you think he'll let them pinch? I'd say yes, no, and no.

It's going to be "fun" watching Karlsson and Rundblad with shackles on.

At least we won't choke, as Cameron's team won't be anywhere near the playoffs.

The biggest joke will be when Murray announces that Cameron was HIS choice.


Why doesn't the Euge save some dough and make himself GM?


And there is a far better internal hiring option in KK.


Early in Game 1 of the Mem. Cup, they interviewed Cameron on the bench, while the Majors were down 1-0. Cameron said "the team is tight". I wanted to reach through the TV screen, grab Cameron by the throat, and yell, "that's because YOU are tight".


All I can say is


The only positive I can see is if we finish last, fire Cameron, get a real coach, and draft Yakopov.

Maybe this is Euge's secret plan to tank for Yakopov?

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