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Old
05-23-2011, 10:38 PM
  #76
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If that happens I would sign a young guy like Scottie Upshall who we can add to our core of guys and just go from there.

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05-23-2011, 11:46 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I wouldn't be so categorical. We are not Sharks, we need regular season performance to get to playoffs. For that Heater is much better than Dubi as well as some other "valued" Rangers. What exactly Dubinski did in playoffs? ha?
Top line players are usually neutralized during playoff much better than regular season, because hockey is less creative and more destructive in playoffs. Playoffs is a bottom 6 time. TB missed Seguin once, not anymore. Kessler is covered, etc. I wouldn't blame Heatley, I'd rather give credit to the opposing coach and his players. And I would love to give Dubi + for him this summer.
To be fair Dubi came back from that leg injury a bit early due to the loss of a couple guys and we were falling fast in the standings. It was reported after the Wash series that Dubi's leg was less then 100% and it's his legs and puck presance along the boards that are the catalist for his game.

So I wouldnt go throwing the kid under the bus for not "carrying" us on his back in the playoffs and making the case that he's expendable because he wasnt a focal point in our offence. Even with a bum leg he still had a good showing over 15+ other players on the team.

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05-24-2011, 01:40 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I wouldn't be so categorical. We are not Sharks, we need regular season performance to get to playoffs. For that Heater is much better than Dubi as well as some other "valued" Rangers. What exactly Dubinski did in playoffs? ha?
Top line players are usually neutralized during playoff much better than regular season, because hockey is less creative and more destructive in playoffs. Playoffs is a bottom 6 time. TB missed Seguin once, not anymore. Kessler is covered, etc. I wouldn't blame Heatley, I'd rather give credit to the opposing coach and his players. And I would love to give Dubi + for him this summer.
Heatley is a cancer wherever he goes. I stay far away from him and that salary.

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05-24-2011, 07:32 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I wouldn't be so categorical. We are not Sharks, we need regular season performance to get to playoffs. For that Heater is much better than Dubi as well as some other "valued" Rangers. What exactly Dubinski did in playoffs? ha?
Top line players are usually neutralized during playoff much better than regular season, because hockey is less creative and more destructive in playoffs. Playoffs is a bottom 6 time. TB missed Seguin once, not anymore. Kessler is covered, etc. I wouldn't blame Heatley, I'd rather give credit to the opposing coach and his players. And I would love to give Dubi + for him this summer.
Dubi played with a broken leg that is what he did.

Heatley also plays with a lot more offensive talent in San Jose than Dubi did in the playoffs.

Kesler is covered...but Kesler still has 17 points and plays against the top offensive players on the other side because he is excellent on the defensive side.

Heatley has 3 goals in 17 games...is that great coaching or just a guy who is overrated.

Heatley has 64 points in 80 games and Dubi had 54 points in 77 games, Dubi kills penalties and protects his teammates...Heatley tries to score and nothing else.

Dubi is 5 years younger.

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05-24-2011, 09:38 AM
  #80
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Heatley is overpaid and I'm glad the Rangers stayed away from trading for him.

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05-24-2011, 10:05 AM
  #81
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Right now id rather have Dubinsky over Heatley. Dubinsky has become a real leader on this team and can play any offensive position we need him to. Dubinsky isnt a top tier talent but him and callahan are the foundation of this team and they are what are essential for winning a cup.

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05-24-2011, 01:38 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Right now id rather have Dubinsky over Heatley. Dubinsky has become a real leader on this team and can play any offensive position we need him to. Dubinsky isnt a top tier talent but him and callahan are the foundation of this team and they are what are essential for winning a cup.
We have too much of the foundation, don't we? Where is the building?

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05-24-2011, 01:40 PM
  #83
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Scratch Jagr for now:

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@dchesnokov
Dmitry Chesnokov
Jagr's agent tells @plysenkov of Sovetsky Sport Jagr is not considering any offers from the NHL at this time.

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05-24-2011, 02:01 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
We have too much of the foundation, don't we? Where is the building?
We have a great building plan going. I think well find all that out next year, with how the talents of Staal, Mcd, Sauer, MDZ, Dubi, Cally, Stepan, AA, Boyle, Prust, Gaborik, and possibly Richards pan out. Your acting like this team has nothing to build off of. We have a very good young talented team, with alot of players like Krieder, Thomas, V-Tank, McIlrath, and others coming up through the system. Our avg age on defense was 23yo for christ sake. we are missing those 1 or 2 other top line players, but we have the overall team that proved to be playoff caliber. We will also have a ton of capspace in the coming 2 years to resign our players and go after big name free agents. Just because we didnt trade Dubinsky and whoever else for Heatley doesnt mean the sky is falling. I personally beleive that we can do better than heatley if we offered up Dubinsky and other peices. Heatley is a good player but he doesnt make others around him better or take over games offensively.

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05-24-2011, 02:49 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
We have a great building plan going. I think well find all that out next year, with how the talents of Staal, Mcd, Sauer, MDZ, Dubi, Cally, Stepan, AA, Boyle, Prust, Gaborik, and possibly Richards pan out. Your acting like this team has nothing to build off of. We have a very good young talented team, with alot of players like Krieder, Thomas, V-Tank, McIlrath, and others coming up through the system. .
I counted 16 players on your list, while we need 20 to play a single game. 4 out of 16 never played in NHL. 10 forwards, including Richards. 2 Star players (including Richards). We are going nowhere. And it is not plan B, since Richards is in. Looks like a great plan.

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05-24-2011, 03:16 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I counted 16 players on your list, while we need 20 to play a single game. 4 out of 16 never played in NHL. 10 forwards, including Richards. 2 Star players (including Richards). We are going nowhere. And it is not plan B, since Richards is in. Looks like a great plan.
I didnt name more players because i didnt think there was a need to, yes i forget about Wolski and boyle and so on. Thats not my point. My point is this team has a great foundation. If we dont get richards i see us in the same spot we were this year, but if gaborik has a season like he did last year i see us making some serious moves in the playoffs while having callahan healthy. We have two players who can possibly be top line forwards in Krieder and Thomas, and in the next two years i do believe we have about 15m coming off the cap while having big named free agents out there. Who knows maybe we can sign burns and then trade girardi with two other solid peices for that top line talent. You never know. We have great young players such as Stepan, Anisimov, Mcdonagh, and others who are really starting to grow and flourish, who knows what they coudl end up being. Mcdonagh maybe can be Staal-esq, Anisimov can be a 2 way 55pt contributer, while stepan can become a 60pt center. Just chill out and lets see how this offseason plays out

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05-24-2011, 03:17 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Right now id rather have Dubinsky over Heatley. Dubinsky has become a real leader on this team and can play any offensive position we need him to. Dubinsky isnt a top tier talent but him and callahan are the foundation of this team and they are what are essential for winning a cup.
You guys keep talking like this Duby is going to want a 6 million contract because well he deserves it. He's better than almost every NHL star we mention on this board.

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05-24-2011, 03:19 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Heatley is overpaid and I'm glad the Rangers stayed away from trading for him.
If Heatley is overpaid then 3/4 of the NYR are overpaid.

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05-24-2011, 03:22 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
You guys keep talking like this Duby is going to want a 6 million contract because well he deserves it. He's better than almost every NHL star we mention on this board.
What are you talking about? Dubinsky will get TOPS 4m a year. We arent saying that hes better, Im simply stating that if we traded dubinsky i would want a player better than Heatley. Heater is a great player but doesnt create offense by himself, and doesnt make his teammates around him better. We already have a Dany Heatley in Marion Gaborik.

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05-24-2011, 03:28 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
If we dont get richards i see us in the same spot we were this year, but if gaborik has a season like he did last year i see us making some serious moves in the playoffs while having callahan healthy.
That's not very promising, but I am not Richards proponent. I just do not see NHL star caliber players in a few years coming from within. For that time we could have had Heatley, while loss of Dubi would not hurt our solid foundation much. Then if Kreider and Thomas and AA live to expectations, fine. By then Heater could be gone.

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05-24-2011, 03:32 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
That's not very promising, but I am not Richards proponent. I just do not see NHL star caliber players in a few years coming from within. For that time we could have had Heatley, while loss of Dubi would not hurt our solid foundation much.
How is it not very promising? With the gaborik of old and a healthy Callahan we wouldve beaten the Caps and who knows from there. I can see Krieder becoming that type of talent, or Thomas becoming a Parise type player. Both can be top line players, but time will only tell. Ehh losing Dubi wouldve hurt our foundation dearly, bc he is a MAIN component of our foundation. Yes i would Love to have Heatley but like i was saying, If im going to trade a player from our foundation who does everything and is pretty much a 60pt player along with other assets, id want a player who can help take over a game and make the players around him better.. Heatley does NOT do that.

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05-24-2011, 03:36 PM
  #92
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Having two snipers opens up the possibilities for a team who has very few options, especially when your star scorer slumps and the team has an injury plagued season.

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05-24-2011, 03:41 PM
  #93
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Having two snipers opens up the possibilities for a team who has very few options, especially when your star scorer slumps and the team has an injury plagued season.
True, but who would feed them the puck? Who would create their offensive chances bc neither creates their own chances? Who is going to win the puck battles for them or take the puck to the net? Neither are able to do so, Dubinsky does all those things. Like i said, if i was going to trade him with a couple of other solid peices, id want a player who has the ability to create his own chances and who can make his teammates around him better. Heatley just does not do that.

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05-24-2011, 03:49 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
True, but who would feed them the puck? Who would create their offensive chances bc neither creates their own chances? Who is going to win the puck battles for them or take the puck to the net? Neither are able to do so, Dubinsky does all those things. Like i said, if i was going to trade him with a couple of other solid peices, id want a player who has the ability to create his own chances and who can make his teammates around him better. Heatley just does not do that.
Well, those players are not always available for a reason. So then what are your options, who is available?

I love Dubi, solid player, but I don't think he's THAT player you are describing, he just fills that role the best on this particular team. Is he replaceable to me if we can get a guy who makes a difference on the scoreboard? Yeah.

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05-24-2011, 03:51 PM
  #95
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Well, those players are not always available for a reason. So then whats are your options?

I love Dubi, solid player, but I don't think he's THAT player you are describing, he just fills that role the best on this particular team. Is he replaceable to me if we can get a guy who makes a difference on the scoreboard? Yeah.
I completley agree with you, but im not trading a core player for Heatley who doesnt exactly make us better or do the things in order to make a difference. Heatley is a great player but not the player that we need.

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05-24-2011, 03:57 PM
  #96
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Plan B: Jarko Immonnen for first line center

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05-24-2011, 04:05 PM
  #97
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Plan B should happen at the end of June. Before we even find out what Richards is doing.

Plan B should be trading up at the draft and acquiring a high-end center.

Zibanejad, Strome, McNeill, Khokhlachev, Scheifele

And allowing him to develop, that group of players won't take long to reach the NHL. Getting one of them is imperative. Preferably Zibanejad, who can play both center and wing.

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05-24-2011, 04:06 PM
  #98
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I completley agree with you, but im not trading a core player for Heatley who doesnt exactly make us better or do the things in order to make a difference. Heatley is a great player but not the player that we need.
I think Heatley makes us better. I agree he's not the be all end all, but for the right price he's still a legit threat to score every time he's on the ice. Ottawa and SJ are/were two contenders with him, look at how well those teams scored outside of the first line. The depth would help us in the same way, even though we don't exactly have those teams talent.

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05-24-2011, 04:13 PM
  #99
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I wouldn't be so categorical. We are not Sharks, we need regular season performance to get to playoffs. For that Heater is much better than Dubi as well as some other "valued" Rangers. What exactly Dubinski did in playoffs? ha?
Top line players are usually neutralized during playoff much better than regular season, because hockey is less creative and more destructive in playoffs. Playoffs is a bottom 6 time. TB missed Seguin once, not anymore. Kessler is covered, etc. I wouldn't blame Heatley, I'd rather give credit to the opposing coach and his players. And I would love to give Dubi + for him this summer.
Speaking of regular season performances, Heatley put up just 64 points in 80 games while logging time with Thornton this year... You do realize that fans would have burned the Garden down if we traded Dubinsky for Heatley and then he churned out that type of production for us? Hell, had he been playing with our centers (Christensen/Stepan/AA), that production could have been considerably lower. I think in some instances, quantity is better than quality. If you want to spend $7.5 mil in cap space for Heatley, you can actually get more production paying $4 mil in cap space for Dubinsy (20+ goals and 50-60 point range) and spending the extra $3.5 mil on another forward (15-20 goals and 40-50 points for that price range). Heck, give or take $500K, you could pay Cally & Dubi with the amount of cap space you would devote to Heatley and get far more production between the two combined.

Again, I'm not arguing that Heatley's cap hit is bad value by itself, but trading a player like Dubinsky and then taking on that cap hit is a poor asset management. You're spending an extra $3.5 mil in cap space for an increase of only maybe 15 goals and 20-25 points in production. Not worth it.

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05-24-2011, 04:18 PM
  #100
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NO to Heatley.

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