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Old
05-24-2011, 04:20 PM
  #101
Bleed Ranger Blue
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Plan B should happen at the end of June. Before we even find out what Richards is doing.

Plan B should be trading up at the draft and acquiring a high-end center.

Zibanejad, Strome, McNeill, Khokhlachev, Scheifele

And allowing him to develop, that group of players won't take long to reach the NHL. Getting one of them is imperative. Preferably Zibanejad, who can play both center and wing.
If you're so sure of that, why hasnt it worked in the past for us?

And even moreso, why would a team trade down instead of just drafting these guys

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05-24-2011, 04:25 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Speaking of regular season performances, Heatley put up just 64 points in 80 games while logging time with Thornton this year... You do realize that fans would have burned the Garden down if we traded Dubinsky for Heatley and then he churned out that type of production for us? .
Any sniper could get a bad season. He wouldn't do any worse than that. Different conference, many bad teams... Last time I checked we have young promising Cs coming. None of them is a sniper. Every one could replace Dubinski starting with Stepan and down. Need just gain some lbs.
As for Garden, they have short memory.


Last edited by 94now: 05-24-2011 at 04:31 PM.
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05-24-2011, 04:37 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
You're spending an extra $3.5 mil in cap space for an increase of only maybe 15 goals and 20-25 points in production. Not worth it.
25 more points IS worth it on this team though.

Also, the reality goes further than the numbers.

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05-24-2011, 04:40 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If you're so sure of that, why hasnt it worked in the past for us?

And even moreso, why would a team trade down instead of just drafting these guys
Why hasn't what worked in the past? I'm not clear on what you mean. The last time the Rangers traded up in the first round, they took Staal (2005) I'd say that's working out.

One team in the top 10 may not be looking to draft a center. And may feel their guy will be around outside the top 10.

Colorado (#2 and #11, we would target #11) would be good trade partners. This subject has been discussed in the NON-Rangers prospect thread. They have Duchene and Stastny. They'll probably take Larsson at #2.

Should the Rangers not be looking to move up and get a high-end player? What would be the benefit? They have two second round picks and a decent #15 in the first round. They have assets to move.

If we can get #11, we could see who falls, and possibly look to make one more deal with Minnesota at #10 if our guy is there.

They could really help themselves out by going after one of the high-end centers. We do not have one in the system.

This should be done regardless of what the plans are with Richards a week or two after the draft.

If we get Richards, we have organization strength. If we don't get Richards, we have a high-end talent developing in the system that won't be far off.

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05-24-2011, 04:48 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Why hasn't what worked in the past? I'm not clear on what you mean. The last time the Rangers traded up in the first round, they took Staal (2005) I'd say that's working out.

One team in the top 10 may not be looking to draft a center. And may feel their guy will be around outside the top 10.

Colorado (#2 and #11, we would target #11) would be good trade partners. This subject has been discussed in the NON-Rangers prospect thread. They have Duchene and Stastny. They'll probably take Larsson at #2.

Should the Rangers not be looking to move up and get a high-end player? What would be the benefit? They have two second round picks and a decent #15 in the first round. They have assets to move.

If we can get #11, we could see who falls, and possibly look to make one more deal with Minnesota at #10 if our guy is there.

They could really help themselves out by going after one of the high-end centers. We do not have one in the system.

This should be done regardless of what the plans are with Richards a week or two after the draft.

If we get Richards, we have organization strength. If we don't get Richards, we have a high-end talent developing in the system that won't be far off.
What would that cost us to move up to 10 or 11? I'm not familiar with the value board in the NHL, I'm more familiar with it in the NFL. Just as a comparison, moving up from around in the 18-20 to 10 in the NFL draft would probably cost a team their own first, a 2nd, and a 3rd and maybe a 6th.

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05-24-2011, 04:48 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
25 more points IS worth it on this team though.
25 points while spending an extra $3.5 mil in cap space? Not in my book....

Quote:
Also, the reality goes further than the numbers.

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05-24-2011, 04:51 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Any sniper could get a bad season. He wouldn't do any worse than that. Different conference, many bad teams... Last time I checked we have young promising Cs coming. None of them is a sniper. Every one could replace Dubinski starting with Stepan and down. Need just gain some lbs.
As for Garden, they have short memory.
Yeah, but how much more likely are "bad seasons" when your best Centers are 2 players with a combined 3 years NHL experience? AA & Stepan are promising, but we don't know if they'll end up as 40-50, 50-60, or 60+ point centers a few years out. Dubinsky has established himself as LW who plays a physical brand of hockey and controls the puck along the boards & behind the goal line, so I don't see Stepan nor AA as replacements for Dubinsky.

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05-24-2011, 04:55 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
25 points while spending an extra $3.5 mil in cap space? Not in my book....



We have wasted a lot more money, just not a little, a lot on production that was three times worse. You are squabbling over pennies compared to what Sather has wasted.

I know you're scratching your head, thats why I'm trying to help you think about more than just their points. The dynamic of the team changes, even if the points are exactly the same.

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05-24-2011, 05:04 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
We have wasted a lot more money, just not a little, a lot on production that was three times worse. You are squabbling over pennies compared to what Sather has wasted.
I'm sorry where is the logic in this? So if Sather wasted X amount of cap space on Drury & Gomez, we can justify continuing to miss-manage cap space in the future as long as it doesn't reach that scale????

Quote:
I know you're scratching your head, thats why I'm trying to help you think about more than just their points. The dynamic of the team changes, even if the points are exactly the same.
Oh okay, so you're saying Heatley will bring the same level of leadership attributes as Dubinsky and he will also replace Dubinsky's vital penalty killing role on our 1st unit? Dynamics, right?

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05-24-2011, 05:13 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
What would that cost us to move up to 10 or 11? I'm not familiar with the value board in the NHL, I'm more familiar with it in the NFL. Just as a comparison, moving up from around in the 18-20 to 10 in the NFL draft would probably cost a team their own first, a 2nd, and a 3rd and maybe a 6th.
It depends.

Probably 1st round pick (#15), high second round pick (#45), and a B level prospect like Weise. We don't have a 3rd round pick this year. We have two 2nd round picks.

We are only talking about moving up 4-5 slots, so it's not that far-fetched.

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05-24-2011, 05:16 PM
  #111
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I wouldn't do Heatley for Dubinsky.

I would explore other options to acquire a sniper, though.

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05-24-2011, 05:21 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I wouldn't do Heatley for Dubinsky.

I would explore other options to acquire a sniper, though.
Semin maybe?
Washington continues to disappoint, and he's only on a 1year 6m deal, something is going to have to give in WSH. Don't know what I'd propose but...

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05-24-2011, 05:24 PM
  #113
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Semin maybe?
Washington continues to disappoint, and he's only on a 1year 6m deal, something is going to have to give in WSH. Don't know what I'd propose but...
NO to Semin.

Heatley and Semin are NOT the players this team needs.

I appreciate their level of skill, but the mentality and work ethic is not there. No no no.

We already have one enigmatic sniper. We don't need more. Scorers come in different forms. We need scorers here that are willing to play hockey.

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05-24-2011, 06:11 PM
  #114
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Heatley only scored 2 more goals than Dubinsky this season. I think id rather go after someone like Marleau or Sharp, Bobby Ryan

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05-24-2011, 06:13 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Heatley only scored 2 more goals than Dubinsky this season. I think id rather go after someone like Marleau or Sharp, Bobby Ryan
I wouldn't take anyone from the Sharks who benefits from Thornton and Marleau fits that to a T.

Sharp and Ryan, I do agree with.

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05-24-2011, 06:29 PM
  #116
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How about taking a run at a younger player like:

Colin Wilson
Andrei Kostitsyn
David Booth
Derrick Brassard
Blake Wheeler

A player in that mold who may not be a "flashy" name, but who have the skills and are young enough where they could come in, grow with the team, and possibly develop into something worth keeping in the future?

I know some players on that list may be harder to acquire. I accept that. However, if they are going to trade for someone, I would rather it be someone like that and hope to develop them rather than pay a super-premium for a player like Bobby Ryan.

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05-24-2011, 06:38 PM
  #117
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Dany Heatley? The last thing this team needs is a one dimensional, egocentric, locker room cancer.

Also, the guy only scored 2 more goals and registered 10 more points than Dubi, while playing 80 games for a team with the likes of Thorton and Marlaeu.

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05-24-2011, 06:59 PM
  #118
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Heatley?no thanks.now Couture or Clowe,yes please.

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05-24-2011, 07:29 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Gravey94 View Post
Dany Heatley? The last thing this team needs is a one dimensional, egocentric, locker room cancer.

Also, the guy only scored 2 more goals and registered 10 more points than Dubi, while playing 80 games for a team with the likes of Thorton and Marlaeu.
I'll give ya one dimensional and there isn't one pro worth his salt this isn't egocentric to some extent so, ok. But locker room cancer? Guess you've spent alot of time in the Sens and Sharks locker rooms. Tell us what YOU have seen and heard. Please don't give me any "he said/she said".

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05-24-2011, 07:38 PM
  #120
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Hey guys, I live in the Bay Area and I watch a LOT of Sharks games. You do not want Marleau, Heatley or Thornton. Their names are bigger than their games and Rangers fans would eat them alive. That being said they work pretty well in San Jose where the fans are a bit nicer to their team haha.

Also, Clowe is a great player, but he not worth what some think and he definatly not a first liner like some seem to peg him. Hes a great second liner and if we had him on a line with Dubinsky and Cally that would be a pretty good 2nd line, but his skating will stop him from being a first line talent in the way first line is being discussed. San Jose has built a team in a very interesting way. I view their top 3 lines as a bit of 2A, 2B, 2C type thing. It's very odd, but effective for them. Just my opinion though.

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05-24-2011, 07:42 PM
  #121
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Hey guys, I live in the Bay Area and I watch a LOT of Sharks games. You do not want Marleau, Heatley or Thornton. Their names are bigger than their games and Rangers fans would eat them alive. That being said they work pretty well in San Jose where the fans are a bit nicer to their team haha.
Thanks for sharing your input. I happen to agree that this fan base would go ballistic if we traded any of our valuable young players for the Heatley or Marleau types and those players subsequently struggled at any point in time (which is pretty darn likely). Now if any of these mentioned players were signed as free agents, that's a different story.

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05-24-2011, 07:49 PM
  #122
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Here's a silly question: Do we buy out Drury prior to July 1 when we attempt to sign Richards? Then suppose we don't land Richards. We already brought out Drury.

Sooo... Is buying out Drury in the plans regardless if we sign Richards or not?

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05-24-2011, 07:50 PM
  #123
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We 'got' the big fish two summers ago, he performed as advertised (42 goals) and we still missed the playoffs.
Goes to show you goals are not everything.

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05-24-2011, 07:51 PM
  #124
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Here's a silly question: Do we buy out Drury prior to July 1 when we attempt to sign Richards? Then suppose we don't land Richards. We already brought out Drury.

Sooo... Is buying out Drury in the plans regardless if we sign Richards or not?
It should be, Richards or no Richards.

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05-24-2011, 07:53 PM
  #125
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Thanks for sharing your input. I happen to agree that this fan base would go ballistic if we traded any of our valuable young players for the Heatley or Marleau types and those players subsequently struggled at any point in time (which is pretty darn likely). Now if any of these mentioned players were signed as free agents, that's a different story.
Heatley types, hes better than any forward we have by a distance. Hes quite underrated.

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