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Rafalski to retire, possibly Lidstrom. What does this mean for Markov?

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Old
05-24-2011, 06:53 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
I don't see Kenny Holland as a guy that would overpay for wiz. But since its his hometown and its a great orginization I could see him going there for 4-4.5 a year.
In that scenario he is definately a Wing next year. Holland won't touch Markov on a long term deal.

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05-24-2011, 06:55 AM
  #52
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In that scenario he is definately a Wing next year. Holland won't touch Markov on a long term deal.
I doubt he would have any issues giving him 3-4 yaers at 5.5-6 mil as a UFA.

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05-24-2011, 07:26 AM
  #53
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NHL's video report about the retirement of Rafalski and Weight

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=115381

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05-24-2011, 08:40 AM
  #54
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I don't see any reason to worry about Markov not being signed.

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05-24-2011, 08:47 AM
  #55
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well this will definitly have an impact on the market, but i think in Markov's case he will be staying in MTL.

He probably feels he has something to prove with the Habs, after missing so much time, an honerable guy would want to come back and make up for this. With Emelin on board it also gives Markov the chance to mentor someone.

if anything this works in favor for Wiz, who could slide in well for Det and make a serious payday. I think Detroit will push for Pitkanen first, but they will need to sign at least 2 Dmen.

Will be an interesting summer for FA Dmen

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05-24-2011, 09:40 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I doubt he would have any issues giving him 3-4 yaers at 5.5-6 mil as a UFA.
Wings aren't where they are for giving out huge long term contracts to HIGH injury risks

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05-24-2011, 09:50 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by jlgib21 View Post
Wings aren't where they are for giving out huge long term contracts to HIGH injury risks
They have had Holmstrom around forever and they signed Bertuzzi last year. Detroit has deep pockets and LITR clears cap room if the player is out.

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05-24-2011, 10:09 AM
  #58
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Huh?
Didn't think it was difficult to understand..
According to Jonathan Ericsson, talks have not started.

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05-24-2011, 10:54 AM
  #59
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Ericsson turned down a 2 year 2 mill deal. his dad wants him to sign but after he turned down that deal the wings stopped talking to him. He said "I want to stay in detroit but i'll take more money elsewhere." ericsson is a bit of a question mark. I like him becasue of the flashes of mobility he shows but he's pretty lazy. If they can get him for 2.5 which is all he's worth then that would be ok but i wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't in a wings uni next year. Holland said smith was ready to play 15 or 16 minutes a night in the nhl this past season so he takes rafalski's spot. If anyone watched the playoffs then you knew this was coming, raf's looked awful. Kindl takes salei's spot so they really have no holes unless lidstrom retires. But, remember lidstrom playing with weber at the all star game? Following the all star game, weber said... nothing against ryan suter becasue he's a great player but man, i'd love to play with nick for a season, the guy is amazing. i could see detroit trying to lock weber up long term now that rafalski is gone. the otehr thign on their table is that the caps owner wants filppula and is willing to give them mike green. They have options and with datsyuk they will never turn into new jersey. They get a bit younger on d this year with smith and kindl and those guys are their future on the blueline. Don't forget kronner played more minutes than lidstrom in the playoffs and he played well.
We'll see about that. You undervalue the importance of having Lidstrom. I don't see them winning a cup any time soon, unless they can replace Lids with a legitimate all-around top D, and Kronwall isn't that. No matter if they have Datsyuk, a big part of that dynamic that made them good will be gone. Detroit didn't win all those cups because of Datsyuk. They won them because of Lids.

I said it would be a slow progressive slide, also.

It took NJ 5 years before they started going down. I took more time for them than I expected.

But in 5 years, Dats will be 37, going on 38. So I give them about the same time span, unless they do find that D they'll need.

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05-24-2011, 11:38 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
We'll see about that. You undervalue the importance of having Lidstrom. I don't see them winning a cup any time soon, unless they can replace Lids with a legitimate all-around top D, and Kronwall isn't that. No matter if they have Datsyuk, a big part of that dynamic that made them good will be gone. Detroit didn't win all those cups because of Datsyuk. They won them because of Lids.

I said it would be a slow progressive slide, also.

It took NJ 5 years before they started going down. I took more time for them than I expected.

But in 5 years, Dats will be 37, going on 38. So I give them about the same time span, unless they do find that D they'll need.
The comparable is when the Devils lost Niedemeyer and Stevens. They were a good playoff team for quite a while after that but had lost the edge that made them the best franchise in the East and perenially in the conversation for the Stanley Cup.

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05-24-2011, 12:18 PM
  #61
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Looks like the Wings are going to be active as well for Defencemans this summer, I hope Gauthier can get some deals done before July 1st

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05-24-2011, 02:44 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Didn't think it was difficult to understand..
According to Jonathan Ericsson, talks have not started.
I am not having trouble understanding anything. I just am confused at why you have such an obvious contradiction in your post.

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05-24-2011, 04:06 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
We'll see about that. You undervalue the importance of having Lidstrom. I don't see them winning a cup any time soon, unless they can replace Lids with a legitimate all-around top D, and Kronwall isn't that. No matter if they have Datsyuk, a big part of that dynamic that made them good will be gone. Detroit didn't win all those cups because of Datsyuk. They won them because of Lids.

I said it would be a slow progressive slide, also.

It took NJ 5 years before they started going down. I took more time for them than I expected.

But in 5 years, Dats will be 37, going on 38. So I give them about the same time span, unless they do find that D they'll need.
Detroit will sign Brent Burns or Ryan Suter next year after Lidstrom retires, i'd bank on that.

As for this year, Detroit even with Ericsson re-singing for around $2.5 mill can afford two of Ehroff/Wiz/Markov if prices right. If Ericsson is gone, Detroit can easily afford two of the top D on the market.

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05-24-2011, 04:23 PM
  #64
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Detroit will sign Brent Burns or Ryan Suter next year after Lidstrom retires, i'd bank on that.

As for this year, Detroit even with Ericsson re-singing for around $2.5 mill can afford two of Ehroff/Wiz/Markov if prices right. If Ericsson is gone, Detroit can easily afford two of the top D on the market.
If Lidstrom is back his salary will be at least 6 mil that puts them at 46.8 minus Rafalski Ericsson Salei Osgood Modano Draper Eaves and Miller with 15 players signed.

If they want to go after a big name d-man like Ehrhoff(assuming he does hit the market), that will cost at least a 6 mil cap hit, that brings you to 52.8, leaving 9-10 min(depending on how much the cap goes up). With 10 forwards signed, they'd need 2-4 mil to fill out the group. On defense they'd have 5 guys signed needing 2 more 1.5-4 mil. Plus they probably need a decent (1-3 mil) goalie to push Howard. Best case they have about 5-5.5 mil to spend on a frontline player but they'd have to go very cheap to fill out their roster, which they don't normally do. Unlike Phillie Detroit seems to pass up another big name player to add 2-3 depth veterans(like Modano Salei Bertuzzi Osgood Draper Holmstrom etc). If they re-sign Ericsson, chances are they can't get two big name d-men...and really wouldn't need two.

I think you'll definitely see them in the mix for one of the big name skill defenseman with Rafalski's cap hit. Probably one that still has prime years left(Pitkanen Ehrhoff Wisniewski).

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05-24-2011, 04:34 PM
  #65
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Am I the one to say what we all secretly feel? In spite of the high point total, cool haircut and hard slapshot, Wiz just isn't very good at passing the puck. I say let him go.

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05-24-2011, 04:42 PM
  #66
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Am I the one to say what we all secretly feel? In spite of the high point total, cool haircut and hard slapshot, Wiz just isn't very good at passing the puck. I say let him go.
No there are plenty of people who feel that way. However there concern isn't his lack of ability to pass the puck, its his defensive play that has many concerned.

I flip flop everyday on him. If he's signed, I'll be happy because I think Markov - Wiz on d with PK on the wing with Pleks and Cammy would make one of the sickest pp's in the league.

I also like the physicality that he brings as opposed to all of our other d. I think him and Yemelin will be a good compliment for some toughness and checking.

But if we let him walk, it won't be the worst thing in the world either, he'll likely be largely overpaid on the UFA market and imo he's not worth more than $5m and I think we'd be hardpressed to get him to sign for $4.5m.

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05-24-2011, 05:06 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Megaforce View Post
Am I the one to say what we all secretly feel? In spite of the high point total, cool haircut and hard slapshot, Wiz just isn't very good at passing the puck. I say let him go.
He really does have cool hair!


God, does he look good in that sweater. But yeah, it might be time to let him go... already.

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05-24-2011, 05:48 PM
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No there are plenty of people who feel that way. However there concern isn't his lack of ability to pass the puck, its his defensive play that has many concerned.

I flip flop everyday on him. If he's signed, I'll be happy because I think Markov - Wiz on d with PK on the wing with Pleks and Cammy would make one of the sickest pp's in the league.

I also like the physicality that he brings as opposed to all of our other d. I think him and Yemelin will be a good compliment for some toughness and checking.

But if we let him walk, it won't be the worst thing in the world either, he'll likely be largely overpaid on the UFA market and imo he's not worth more than $5m and I think we'd be hardpressed to get him to sign for $4.5m.

I go back and forth also...

On one side he is a solid asset and if we can get him for a reasonable cap hit(around 4.5-4.6) we can afford him short term and trade him long term if he becaomes expendable and we need cap room thus getting an asset(s) back. Plus he would be great insurance on Markov staying healthy.

On the other I see Weber who is not far off from being a similar player(2 years from being this year's Wiz) maybe better defensively and at 1/5th the cost, let's try and spend the cap room on a forward(Laich Upshall Leino) with size.

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05-24-2011, 05:52 PM
  #69
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I am not having trouble understanding anything. I just am confused at why you have such an obvious contradiction in your post.
Because refusing an offer 4months ago is not an indication that he wants out, especially when he's gone on record more than once since then saying he wants to remain a Wings.

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05-24-2011, 05:58 PM
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Rafalski retired today and this just frees up 6M$ in cap space for the Wings. Rumors has it (Eklund) that it might encourage Lidstrom to do the same. Hypothetical question: what if Lidstrom does retire too? Wings would find themselves in a situation with two puck-mover defenceman spots to fill, and a lot of cash. I don't know if there is a connection between Datsyuk and Markov, but if I'm Holland, I'd try everything to sign Markov and make him play on the powerplay with Datsyuk. Those two would be dynamite. And they do have the money to sign him.

I know this have been an issue last time Markov have been a UFA, with him being friend and Ovechkin, and it never happened. But still, I'm discussing the possibility.
I don't like the thought of Markov leave as UFA, but it is not as bad as many make it sound. Habs haven't had Markov virtually for 2 full seasons and they got to final 4 one year and this year arguably Pacioretty injury away from making the Cup final. Habs have depth on defense and should be able to thrive without him.

Plus, Montreal would have a ton of cap space to keep whoever they want plus sign a UFA. They also would not have to gamble a big multi-year contract on a 33 year old player who has had 3 major surgeries in last 2 years. It could be best thing for Montreal if a Detroit blows signs Markov away. If Markov blows his knee out again next season, he is probably done

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05-24-2011, 06:08 PM
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The friend angle is hugely overpaid. The only players I can ever think of signing somewhere as a unit were Kariya/Selanne and Sedin/Sedin.

For some reason, fans like to freak out about friends he has around the league and forget that the guy has played many years in one city on a team with a lot of the guys currently on the Habs roster.

I bet if you asked Markov to list his friends in the NHL, the vast majority would be wearing the Habs crest.

Ultimately, it will come down to dollars and term. Both Montreal and Detroit have cap space (so do others), but Montreal has a two month head start. I imagine he'll be under contract before Detroit can even log a phone call.

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05-24-2011, 06:16 PM
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The friend angle is hugely overpaid. The only players I can ever think of signing somewhere as a unit were Kariya/Selanne and Sedin/Sedin.

For some reason, fans like to freak out about friends he has around the league and forget that the guy has played many years in one city on a team with a lot of the guys currently on the Habs roster.

I bet if you asked Markov to list his friends in the NHL, the vast majority would be wearing the Habs crest.

Ultimately, it will come down to dollars and term. Both Montreal and Detroit have cap space (so do others), but Montreal has a two month head start. I imagine he'll be under contract before Detroit can even log a phone call.
Exactly. If Markov hits free agency July 1st, he can sign with whom ever, because it means he is not coming back. He will be signed soon, give it a week or two. Same for Gorges.

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05-24-2011, 06:36 PM
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In the end the Habs have the first shot at signing Markov and it will come down to what risk the team is willing to take with regards to salary and length for a guy that has not played much in the last two years. I really hope he remains a member of the Habs.

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05-24-2011, 06:37 PM
  #74
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Am I the one to say what we all secretly feel? In spite of the high point total, cool haircut and hard slapshot, Wiz just isn't very good at passing the puck. I say let him go.
he isn't a great passer but not terrible, I remember reading an interview with him a few weeks after he was traded to the habs and he was saying how it's different on the habs, they play a puck possession game so as a dman you have to hit the forward with a pass and he was talking about how it was an adjustment period with that because on the islanders they just shot the puck off the glass and out. My concern with letting him go is that after we let Souray go we then needed a big shot so we got Strait. Let him go then we needed a big shot, we were forced to sign MA Bergeron who was horrible. Then we let him go and low and behold we needed another big shot so we traded for wiz. Why not just lock him up right now instead of constantly looking for a dman with a big shot. Sure Subban has a great shot and he and markov will be working the powerplay but we all know their will be injuries. If their long term, mid way thru the year we'll be looking for a big shot again.

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05-24-2011, 06:39 PM
  #75
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I go back and forth also...

On one side he is a solid asset and if we can get him for a reasonable cap hit(around 4.5-4.6) we can afford him short term and trade him long term if he becaomes expendable and we need cap room thus getting an asset(s) back. Plus he would be great insurance on Markov staying healthy.

On the other I see Weber who is not far off from being a similar player(2 years from being this year's Wiz) maybe better defensively and at 1/5th the cost, let's try and spend the cap room on a forward(Laich Upshall Leino) with size.
Lol I bet all 29 teams will offer-sheet Weber in that case.

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