The last few years when Markov was hurt, everybody was saying that Gorges was our best, most consistent and most reliable d-man out there. He was a defensive beast, not afraid of anything (blocking pucks with his head...)
Some people forget fast when a player is sidelined. Same thing happened with Markov. He is the only true elite skater we have on the team and yet people think he is easily replaceable.
I really don't get how you can say what you're saying. You say he doesn't play 22-25 minutes, that he only averages 21. Okay, he only averages 21. But you do realize in order for the average to be 21, he'd need to either play 21 minutes a game always (not the case) or he'd need to play some games at 18 minutes, others at 24 minutes, etc.
I mean really you are arguing over 2 minutes in terms of the average. 22-25 = 23.5 avg, Gorges averages 21. Okay so the poster should have said he plays 17-25 minutes a night then, rather than saying 22-25 which averages to 23.5. But regardless of that mistake, you're either completely missing the point or arguing for the sake or argument.
I don't mind either way but it's just funny that 2 minutes of ice time on average means so much to you when the guy has shown he's perfectly capable in the games he did play in the 22-25 minute range, and that's all that matters when discussing if Gorges is a top 4 player at all. I'm not saying that doesn't mean on a solid team he's a last pairing D. But on tons of average and obviously below average teams, he's at least a #4.
He plays big minutes against other teams better players and does not look out of place doing it. You undervalue him, if it's due to the fact that he puts up little to no offensive production, then I agree to some extent, his skill set puts him in the #5-6 range, but his stellar defensive play brings him up that 1-2 spots imo. I'm not saying he's a #1 shutdown D on the best defensive team in the NHL, but you're certainly selling the guy short.
To put it simply, if you aren't a #7d on some of the best defensive teams in the NHL, you're likely at minimum a #5 in general. Gorges would never be a #7d on any team in the NHL. I could see him as a #4 or a #5, #6 very unlikely. (Even on our team when it's Gill-Gorges as 5 and 6, he's the > D on that pairing, making him the #5)
I'm not sure why you've singled me out, yet again, but, he should of said 18-23 minutes then. He inflated the numbers to better serve his point. If I said he played 17-20minutes would I be right too, or would I b trying to misrepresent him?
JM coaches a style of game that is defense by committee. All the D average around 20minutes, but Josh Gorges is a JM type player and his playing style results in him getting more ice time that and the fact Markov was out and Hamrlik/Gill/Spacek aren't exactly spring chickens and there you have it. He would have to be pretty bad not to be getting the ice time he's got. Ideally he should be a number 5, but he is capable of playing in the top 4, which is what I stated all along.
Edit: Where he would rank on a poor team is of little consequence to me. I prefer to have an above average team with a legitimate shot at the cup.
Last edited by habsjunkie2*: 05-24-2011 at 02:40 PM.
I'm not sure why you've singled me out, yet again, but, he should of said 18-23 minutes then. He inflated the numbers to better serve his point. If I said he played 17-20minutes would I be right too, or would I b trying to misrepresent him?
JM plays a style of game that is defense by committee. All the D average around 20minutes, but Josh Gorges is a JM type player and his playing style results in him getting more ice time that and the fact Markov was out and Hamrlik/Gill/Spacek aren't exactly spring chickens and there you have it. He would have to be pretty bad not to be getting the ice time he's got. Ideally he should be a number 5, but he is capable of playing in the top 4, which is what I stated all along.
Edit: Where he would rank on a poor team is of little consequence to me. I prefer to have an above average team with a legitimate shot at the cup.
JM only plays defense by committee when the defense is relatively equal in ability, which the Habs are when healthy. He rides the hell out of his best players when there are bad defensivemen in the rotation and when that happens Gorges tends to get huge minutes. Even when Gorges was on the third pairing he was about the 4th on the depth chart because typically then one of Markov or Hamerlik was carrying a weak link. People don't give him the respect he deserves because they expect expert defensive defensemen to be big guys who hit and don't understand that an expect positional blueliner with good mobilty can be more effective. On a good defensive group he's about a 4 as he's either the slightly lesser partner of the 2nd pair or the compliment to the star defender on the first.
We beat Crosby and Ovi with Gorges. How can you forget his effort in those series!
We beat Crosby and Ovi on the back of Halak, mostly. I'm not taking anything away from Gorges, I actually like what he brings a lot, but he is what he is. I hear a lot of people using his name and elite in the same sentence and wonder what the hell they're talking about. The thread about locking him up long term to 4/16million contracts is ridiculous. I doubt he gets over 3. I like what he brings to the table, I just think ideally he is better suited to be a 5 dman.
We beat Crosby and Ovi on the back of Halak, mostly. I'm not taking anything away from Gorges, I actually like what he brings a lot, but he is what he is. I hear a lot of people using his name and elite in the same sentence and wonder what the hell they're talking about. The thread about locking him up long term to 4/16million contracts is ridiculous. I doubt he gets over 3. I like what he brings to the table, I just think ideally he is better suited to be a 5 dman.
Which is why I said if Gorges is on the bottom paring, then you have a very deep D corps. But if you're saying that, generally speaking, he's nothing more than a bottom pair D, then you're not giving him enough credit.
I have been drooling over Emelin (Yemelin) since he blossomed in those PO in KHL in 2010.
This guy is only 25! So he is starting his prime with us.
He may start a few games in AHL to get him in the beat but I would be surprised.
Before season ends, he will be a top-4 d-men.
If he starts the season in the AHL, he is going back to russia. It's in his contract
If he starts the season in the AHL, he is going back to russia. It's in his contract
Yup, I think he starts the year on the roster no matter what...his camp and preseason will determine if he plays top 4, 3rd pair or starts out as #7 and works his way in.
If he starts the season in the AHL, he is going back to russia. It's in his contract
His contract doesn't say that if he's dropped to AHL then he is sent over to Russia.
He has a clause in which he can choose to go. He can also decide to not use that exit clause and simply go to Hamilton.
If they tell him to do 2weeks of conditioning with the Bulldogs just so he can get use to the speed and size, I don't see why he'd jet back to the KHL.
That's if he looks lost with us at the full NHL speed.
His contract doesn't say that if he's dropped to AHL then he is sent over to Russia.
He has a clause in which he can choose to go. He can also decide to not use that exit clause and simply go to Hamilton.
If they tell him to do 2weeks of conditioning with the Bulldogs just so he can get use to the speed and size, I don't see why he'd jet back to the KHL.
That's if he looks lost with us at the full NHL speed.
That's what camp and preseason are for, if he only needs two weeks he shouldn't need any AHL time...preseason is AHL calibre hockey...at least the early part.
That's what camp and preseason are for, if he only needs two weeks he shouldn't need any AHL time...preseason is AHL calibre hockey...at least the early part.
Well obviously, if he looks good at camp, then he won't be sent down. I was speaking in the event that he has trouble adjusting.
Two weeks in the AHL wouldn't turn him into a superstar, but it might help a little bit adjust to the rink with slower and less skilled players. Two weeks later, he can come up and go through the learning process over here.
Anyways, point was simply to say, he won't necessarily bolt over to Russia if he's sent down.
I wouldn't expect him to use this clause in the first 1-2 months. Depending on how it goes, it could be normal for him to take a bit of time to adjust in the AHL. His clause will be used if after a few months they do not call him back up or if in the middle of the season after having played in the NHL for a while he's sent down. But I wouldn't think he would bolt at all for playing a few weeks in the AHL to start of with, I mean the guy is investing himself in coming over in America, if he bolts at the very first bump in the road then he's likely not a big loss (but as I said, that is not what I think he would do).
I'm not sure why you've singled me out, yet again, but, he should of said 18-23 minutes then. He inflated the numbers to better serve his point. If I said he played 17-20minutes would I be right too, or would I b trying to misrepresent him?
JM coaches a style of game that is defense by committee. All the D average around 20minutes, but Josh Gorges is a JM type player and his playing style results in him getting more ice time that and the fact Markov was out and Hamrlik/Gill/Spacek aren't exactly spring chickens and there you have it. He would have to be pretty bad not to be getting the ice time he's got. Ideally he should be a number 5, but he is capable of playing in the top 4, which is what I stated all along.
Edit: Where he would rank on a poor team is of little consequence to me. I prefer to have an above average team with a legitimate shot at the cup.
Fair enough but it isn't about how many minutes he played or for what reason, it's about how well he played when given those minutes and he played damn well.
PS: Not singling you out, if you post something that I'm interested in discussing I'm going to quote it. It isn't like a dozen people said the same thing and I was only targeting your post, come on now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patccmoi
I wouldn't expect him to use this clause in the first 1-2 months. Depending on how it goes, it could be normal for him to take a bit of time to adjust in the AHL. His clause will be used if after a few months they do not call him back up or if in the middle of the season after having played in the NHL for a while he's sent down. But I wouldn't think he would bolt at all for playing a few weeks in the AHL to start of with, I mean the guy is investing himself in coming over in America, if he bolts at the very first bump in the road then he's likely not a big loss (but as I said, that is not what I think he would do).
Exactly, I don't want a quitter like Tanguay on my team anyways, so if Emelin bolts at the first sign of a problem he can go right ahead back to Russia.
I am damn excited to see what he can pull off none the less.
