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Old
05-25-2011, 07:00 AM
  #26
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
That kinda was my point though in my previous point. This team had a history of D injuries in the previous two years. And to start the season Markov was coming back from major knee surgery, Gorges evidently was hobbling on a gimpy knee and they started with three 34 + year old d-men.

But let's suppose Gauthier would have been right and the D would have stayed relatively healthy. Then there may have been the opportunity to make room for O'Byrne on a third pairing and give him a chance to develop. IDK. Just seems the Habs traded a right handed, physical D when they actually could have used him.

At the end of the day it wasn't horrible move. It's just one I didn't quite understand given the injury history and state of the D in general.
I think part of the reason O'byrne was traded is they overrated Picard, he played decent(still made a few glaring mistakes) early on and even had a few hits, then around midseason his play went in the crapper and they had to go out and get 3 new d-men.

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05-25-2011, 08:03 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I guess I'm one of the few in the camp that are excited to see what Bournival can bring to the table? To me he seems like a boom or bust 3rd/4th line guy who can contribute to the team. (Another Chipchura in that regard?)
I have an image in my mind of Bournival as a more productive Tom Pyatt or maybe low end Todd Marchant. Don't ask me why I have that image because I have never seen him play but I would be happy with either.

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05-25-2011, 08:33 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
I have an image in my mind of Bournival as a more productive Tom Pyatt or maybe low end Todd Marchant. Don't ask me why I have that image because I have never seen him play but I would be happy with either.
I get a similar impression. More like a Tom Pyatt with potential to put up 3rd line points. Maybe a bit more physical. Haven't seen him play but just from things I've been hearing.

Like I had mentioned above, it was more the situation I was comparing than the actual two players themselves. Both are pretty much boom or bust 3rd line players. Someone did mention Chipper is too slow for the 4th line, as far as I remember at least Bournival has some speed, so if he doesn't bring the offense at this level he'll likely be a Pyatt.

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05-25-2011, 08:41 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Reign40 View Post
No Pierre Gauthier team will ever win the Cup. He doesn't have the stomach for the BIG trade. His teams will always make the playoffs and he is satisfied with that. He will make profit for his owner and that makes Boivin happy. All the players mentioned above are of the dime-a-dozen variety at the NHL level, mostly 3rd or 4th liners...none are (or will become) impact players.
If you are satisfied with a middle of the road team then PG is the GM for you.

19 years without a Cup is not something that sits well with me.
Judging from the buzz it engendered not only locally but throughout Canada and the US, the trade of Halak for Eller must be considered BIG.

Big moves don't always work out. Letting Saku Koivu walk and trading for Scott Gomez was one of Gainey's biggest moves but Habs fans are still gnashing their teeth over the outcome. Burke's tendering an offer sheet to an injured Phil Kessel was big but it helped the Bruins far more than it did the Leafs.

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Old
05-25-2011, 09:09 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
That kinda was my point though in my previous point. This team had a history of D injuries in the previous two years. And to start the season Markov was coming back from major knee surgery, Gorges evidently was hobbling on a gimpy knee and they started with three 34 + year old d-men.

But let's suppose Gauthier would have been right and the D would have stayed relatively healthy. Then there may have been the opportunity to make room for O'Byrne on a third pairing and give him a chance to develop. IDK. Just seems the Habs traded a right handed, physical D when they actually could have used him.

At the end of the day it wasn't horrible move. It's just one I didn't quite understand given the injury history and state of the D in general.
I do get your point, I just don't think the team had roster space to carry that number of defenders for a day more than possible. The only reason they did for as long as they did was to finish the trade.

The team can carry 23 players, but rarely does due to cap concerns. With O'Byrne (before the injuries) we had 10 healthy D, which meant no spare forwards.

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Old
05-25-2011, 09:14 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign40 View Post
No Pierre Gauthier team will ever win the Cup. He doesn't have the stomach for the BIG trade. His teams will always make the playoffs and he is satisfied with that. He will make profit for his owner and that makes Boivin happy. All the players mentioned above are of the dime-a-dozen variety at the NHL level, mostly 3rd or 4th liners...none are (or will become) impact players.
If you are satisfied with a middle of the road team then PG is the GM for you.

19 years without a Cup is not something that sits well with me.
When's the last time a big trade resulted in an immediate contender?

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Old
05-25-2011, 09:20 AM
  #32
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When's the last time a big trade resulted in an immediate contender?
Patrick Roy to the Nordiques my friend.

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05-25-2011, 09:23 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign40 View Post
No Pierre Gauthier team will ever win the Cup. He doesn't have the stomach for the BIG trade. His teams will always make the playoffs and he is satisfied with that. He will make profit for his owner and that makes Boivin happy. All the players mentioned above are of the dime-a-dozen variety at the NHL level, mostly 3rd or 4th liners...none are (or will become) impact players.
If you are satisfied with a middle of the road team then PG is the GM for you.

19 years without a Cup is not something that sits well with me.
Well Pierre Gauthier is responsible for only one of those last 19 years.

Besides, big trades don't always work. Ask San Jose how many cups they have won since they acquired Joe Thornton. In fact, ask them how many cup finals they have played in. Now ask Boston the same question? It is really hard to pick winners and losers out of these big trades until well after the fact. Detroit is a team that methodically builds competitive teams. Personally, I would sooner see Gauthier take that approach. Steady but unexciting management that produces consistent winners.

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05-25-2011, 09:25 AM
  #34
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blah, I'll wait and see how he handles the blueline before praising him. Like most Montreal GM's he doesn't seem to know what direction the team should go in, plus he has to deal with Gainey's blunders.

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05-25-2011, 09:38 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Judging from the buzz it engendered not only locally but throughout Canada and the US, the trade of Halak for Eller must be considered BIG.

Big moves don't always work out. Letting Saku Koivu walk and trading for Scott Gomez was one of Gainey's biggest moves but Habs fans are still gnashing their teeth over the outcome. Burke's tendering an offer sheet to an injured Phil Kessel was big but it helped the Bruins far more than it did the Leafs.
I don't really see how you can say that right now. Kessel=30goal scorer and Seguin = healthy scratch. It's likely to become more in Boston's favor, but atm it's too soon to call. People seem to forget Tor actually got a 30 goal scorer in his early 20's.

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05-25-2011, 09:44 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
the Halpern replacement was half the price and I think Halpern definitely provided at least half the value of a Moore.


There's a ton of guys in the beer leagues who are 1/10 th as good as Ovechkin but it doesn't mean that they're making 1/10 th what he earns.

It's a zero-sum game. You can be half as good as the Beatles but it doesn't mean you're going to get a record deal.

The replacement of Moore by Halpern was a terrible idea. We were that close from making it to the next round and a little bit more talent would have gone a long way.

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Old
05-25-2011, 09:45 AM
  #37
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Gauthier has done a good enough job for me to be reasonably confident in him moving forward.

This is a big off season though because I do feel we're just a few pieces away from being a legitimate Cup contender. Hopefully PG sees this as well.

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Old
05-25-2011, 09:59 AM
  #38
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I think some of you forgot the term ''progress''.
Look at how the team was playing under the last season of carbo. Totaly dominated in the scoring chances and most of the nights, shots too. Now last season, they started really slowly to pick up their game late in the season and had a great playoff.

This season, before injuries, it was the first time in YEARS i saw the habs dominating the play. The first 20 games we always had the puck. When we were down, it was hell in the opposing team's zone. I remember the third period agaisnt detroit, they looked like they couldnt bare skating with us. Same agaisnt phily in the bell center (the one we lost), we totaly outplayed them. Then came the injuries and the old blue line gassed out.

I do beleive that what Martin and Gauthier implanted is working great and keeps improving. I know that we will definetly have a strong start next year and probably alot more sucess down the road. Im sure they are aiming for at least 100+ pts season and rightfully so. In the spawn of 2 years there was a whole makeover of the system and i enjoy it.

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Old
05-25-2011, 10:18 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by domdo345 View Post
I think some of you forgot the term ''progress''.
Look at how the team was playing under the last season of carbo. Totaly dominated in the scoring chances and most of the nights, shots too. Now last season, they started really slowly to pick up their game late in the season and had a great playoff.
Last year? Better check your time machine.

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Old
05-25-2011, 10:32 AM
  #40
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Last year? Better check your time machine.
Reading comprehension at its best there. 2 years prior if it can make you happy.

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Old
05-25-2011, 11:10 AM
  #41
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I keep reading this stuff and it's BS.

Gauthier got a cheaper/more productive version of Moore in Halpern...better faceoff %, better +- and better 5 on 5 production...PLUS he saved 500 k in cap hit. How the hell is that a mistake??

Moore is a younger, faster hockey player than Halpern. Moore's faceoff numbers weren't any worse than Halperns and Moore is healthy and in the lineup more often than Halpern. Moore is also a better 3rd line player than Halpern was.

This deal never mattered to me because it was basically a wash, but Moore is the better option in my eyes and I think PG should have signed him to a 2 or 3 year deal to help secure the bottom 2 lines.....but thats just my opinion.

I liked Halpern, he was great and played good hockey for the Habs, but I think we would have gotten more out of Moore if we kept him around.

I feel it was strictly a cap move only. He got a cheaper version of Moore who is a little older and a little slower....but I wouldn't call it a bad decision by PG...he just went short term instead of keeping Moore for a couple of years.

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Old
05-25-2011, 11:49 AM
  #42
Lucius
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There's a ton of guys in the beer leagues who are 1/10 th as good as Ovechkin but it doesn't mean that they're making 1/10 th what he earns.

It's a zero-sum game. You can be half as good as the Beatles but it doesn't mean you're going to get a record deal.

The replacement of Moore by Halpern was a terrible idea. We were that close from making it to the next round and a little bit more talent would have gone a long way.
The cap is a finite resource and when Markov came back the team was right up against it. They couldn't afford Moore, I am not sure why that's so hard for people to understand.

Would Moore have been better than Halpern? Sure. But I think we could all agree Arnott would have been better than Moore and Crosby would have been better than Arnott.

The team had 500-600k to spend and given that, Halpern was a great addition. You cannot just say "Gauthier sucks because he didn't sign this other guy who required twice the cap hit."

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Old
05-25-2011, 11:53 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Burke's tendering an offer sheet to an injured Phil Kessel was big but it helped the Bruins far more than it did the Leafs.
But then Burke turned around and absolutely robbed Boston in the Kaberle trade. Kaberle is completely one-dimensional and his skills in that area are deteriorating quickly

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Old
05-25-2011, 12:46 PM
  #44
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The level of cognitive dissonance from some of the posters around here is astounding.

No room for assesment of facts with some of these folks, just cold hard... opinions that overtrump any logic and rationale.

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Old
05-25-2011, 12:54 PM
  #45
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Reading comprehension at its best there. 2 years prior if it can make you happy.
You do realize that despite this being an English forum a lot of the posters in this section are Francophone making an effort to speak English right?

Calm down he misunderstood you.

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Old
05-25-2011, 11:23 PM
  #46
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You do realize that despite this being an English forum a lot of the posters in this section are Francophone making an effort to speak English right?

Calm down he misunderstood you.
ya i understand ive been lurking for awhile and i know people are rude but had he read the whole thing he would've understood. I think it's just the fact that he read the first few lines, tough i was wrong therefore my whole point is invalid. Kinda irritating.

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Old
05-26-2011, 08:58 AM
  #47
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ya i understand ive been lurking for awhile and i know people are rude but had he read the whole thing he would've understood. I think it's just the fact that he read the first few lines, tough i was wrong therefore my whole point is invalid. Kinda irritating.
Trust me I understand. I know how some posters can be at times throwing out one liners without thinking or even just making points they don't even think through. We all make mistakes though I guess is the point I was making. I'd probably have been irritated too if I didn't think it was a language issue, anyways cheers.

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05-26-2011, 09:45 AM
  #48
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Trust me I understand. I know how some posters can be at times throwing out one liners without thinking or even just making points they don't even think through. We all make mistakes though I guess is the point I was making. I'd probably have been irritated too if I didn't think it was a language issue, anyways cheers.
Sounds like everybody calmed down. Well done. Rule number one on the Habs HF: Do not criticize a guy's English if he's not English. Help the guy out.

I admire the French guys who post on this board. And generally their English is very good. I'd be ashamed to post on French boards...

And yeah, none of us, French, English or Chinese, need blustery ignorant posts, so everyone think twice before posting!

Except when drunk after a big Habs win, or bad Habs loss. Then some rants are always acceptable.

Cheers as well!

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05-26-2011, 09:54 AM
  #49
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Well said bsl, thanks for saving me some typing.

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Old
05-26-2011, 10:17 AM
  #50
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Well said bsl, thanks for saving me some typing.


Yeah for real, couldn't have said it better myself and I think we all know that to be the case.

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