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Old
05-25-2011, 11:10 PM
  #976
Larry44
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Originally Posted by 10KeithLeClair25 View Post
How do you all feel about Paul Mara as a 6th d-man?
I'd rather bring Chelios back first.

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05-25-2011, 11:12 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Tomas Kaberle is vastly superior to Matt Carle.

Just saying.

He will be a 33 y.o D with 8 40+ point season, 3 50+ point seasons, and 1 60+ point season on his resume. He is a REAL PPQB in this league to boot.
Kaberle stinks. Period. Just sayin'.

You clearly didn't watch many Leaf games this year. Kabby's playing better for the Bruins than he did for them, and he's their worst Dman.

Although he WILL come cheaply, as the commentators repeatedly point out, his value goes down with every passing shift.

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05-26-2011, 01:47 AM
  #978
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my first target for D would be Jan Hejda.
he's exactly what this team needs, and he could be affordable.

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05-26-2011, 01:48 AM
  #979
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my first target for D would be Jan Hejda.
he's exactly what this team needs, and he could be affordable.
He'd probably be 2.25M max if you ask me.

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05-26-2011, 02:08 AM
  #980
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Kaberle stinks. Period. Just sayin'.

You clearly didn't watch many Leaf games this year. Kabby's playing better for the Bruins than he did for them, and he's their worst Dman.

Although he WILL come cheaply, as the commentators repeatedly point out, his value goes down with every passing shift.
Kaberle has been on the decline for a few years and has definitely not looked good in these playoffs. He's had a better career than Carle however, so I can see teams putting up quite a sum of money hoping he'll turn it around again. Wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened.

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05-26-2011, 02:20 AM
  #981
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Jan Hejda is awesome. He turns me on.

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05-26-2011, 02:23 AM
  #982
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Jan Hejda is awesome. He turns me on.
...no?

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Old
05-26-2011, 07:33 AM
  #983
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Kaberle stinks. Period. Just sayin'.

You clearly didn't watch many Leaf games this year. Kabby's playing better for the Bruins than he did for them, and he's their worst Dman.

Although he WILL come cheaply, as the commentators repeatedly point out, his value goes down with every passing shift.
Just like Carle isn't that bad defensively, Larry?

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05-26-2011, 07:37 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
Kaberle has been on the decline for a few years and has definitely not looked good in these playoffs. He's had a better career than Carle however, so I can see teams putting up quite a sum of money hoping he'll turn it around again. Wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened.
Part of his "decline" is that the Leafs bled away talent around him and were on the decline as a team. He's remained a pretty damn studly PPQB even throughout that period. Over the last two years he's posted 3-47-50 on the PP. Sure, he's not going to give you the 51 points he had on the PP right out of the lockout, but he'll improve the PP on most teams with his presence.

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05-26-2011, 07:55 AM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Part of his "decline" is that the Leafs bled away talent around him and were on the decline as a team. He's remained a pretty damn studly PPQB even throughout that period. Over the last two years he's posted 3-47-50 on the PP. Sure, he's not going to give you the 51 points he had on the PP right out of the lockout, but he'll improve the PP on most teams with his presence.
Except for the Bruins, who before last night had a PP percentage of something like 9% since he joined the team, and were at 16% before that. I have no idea why he's been so terrible with the B's, but people have been calling for him to sit for a while, and his even strength time has plummeted in the playoffs. He still goes out on the PP, but they're PP has been disgraceful this postseason too and Kaberle sure as hell isn't helping it any right now. Again, not sure why he's so terrible playing with them, although I'd suspect coaching plays a role here. Julien wasn't loved by a lot of the fan base here before this run, and people are only calming down now due to where they are. If they blow game 7, there will be a mob marching on the Garden Saturday.

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05-26-2011, 08:50 AM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Part of his "decline" is that the Leafs bled away talent around him and were on the decline as a team. He's remained a pretty damn studly PPQB even throughout that period. Over the last two years he's posted 3-47-50 on the PP. Sure, he's not going to give you the 51 points he had on the PP right out of the lockout, but he'll improve the PP on most teams with his presence.
He may have decent numbers next year if he is playing on the PP with stud players. He creates very little and doesn't shoot. He is Kimmo on the PP with less creativity, we certainly do not need that. He is clearly not good enough to excel in playoff hockey as we are all seeing, so why would we want him? He is the last player in the league I would want in Orange and Black. We need more Briere/Giroux/Pronger types who pick up their play in the playoffs, not Kaberle who is less effective.

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Old
05-26-2011, 09:27 AM
  #987
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Just like Carle isn't that bad defensively, Larry?
No, he's very good defensively actually. I'd mention his great +/- but stats only interest you when you think you're using them to support another one of your tedious arguments.

I'd rather play Gustafsson than Kaberle on the point next year. Kabby is going through the motions to collect his money. Some sucker will give him a contract next year, I hope it isn't us.

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05-26-2011, 09:49 AM
  #988
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
He may have decent numbers next year if he is playing on the PP with stud players. He creates very little and doesn't shoot. He is Kimmo on the PP with less creativity, we certainly do not need that. He is clearly not good enough to excel in playoff hockey as we are all seeing, so why would we want him? He is the last player in the league I would want in Orange and Black. We need more Briere/Giroux/Pronger types who pick up their play in the playoffs, not Kaberle who is less effective.
Guy has been someone you can mark down for ~25 pts on the PP every year despite the fact that the Leafs began to blow. He's never been the A-level stud that some thought he was going to be, but he's been a very very good and productive D in this league for a long time.

Quote:
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No, he's very good defensively actually. I'd mention his great +/- but stats only interest you when you think you're using them to support another one of your tedious arguments.

I'd rather play Gustafsson than Kaberle on the point next year. Kabby is going through the motions to collect his money. Some sucker will give him a contract next year, I hope it isn't us.
Larry, you understand I almost NEVER use +/- as a statistic, right?

Carle is atrocious defensively. Atrocious.

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05-26-2011, 09:51 AM
  #989
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Except for the Bruins, who before last night had a PP percentage of something like 9% since he joined the team, and were at 16% before that. I have no idea why he's been so terrible with the B's, but people have been calling for him to sit for a while, and his even strength time has plummeted in the playoffs. He still goes out on the PP, but they're PP has been disgraceful this postseason too and Kaberle sure as hell isn't helping it any right now. Again, not sure why he's so terrible playing with them, although I'd suspect coaching plays a role here. Julien wasn't loved by a lot of the fan base here before this run, and people are only calming down now due to where they are. If they blow game 7, there will be a mob marching on the Garden Saturday.
Midseason trades are always a crapshoot on chemistry. Don't have a ton of time to practice late in the year... people are banged up. Guys are used to one thing, and suddenly placed in a different environment.

Not to mention... similar to Versteeg, I think the funk has to do with a lot of other players more than specific to one.

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05-26-2011, 10:13 AM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
No, he's very good defensively actually. I'd mention his great +/- but stats only interest you when you think you're using them to support another one of your tedious arguments.

I'd rather play Gustafsson than Kaberle on the point next year. Kabby is going through the motions to collect his money. Some sucker will give him a contract next year, I hope it isn't us.
Carle is atrocious defensively. He doesn't make confident moves and in that split second it costs him. As for plus/minus, everyone knows that's not a stat that can be trusted.

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05-26-2011, 10:21 AM
  #991
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No, he's very good defensively actually. I'd mention his great +/- but stats only interest you when you think you're using them to support another one of your tedious arguments.

Yeah, his -8 in the playoffs is stellar.

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05-26-2011, 12:12 PM
  #992
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Yeah, his -8 in the playoffs is stellar.
He was particularly awful in the playoffs. How anyone can claim Carle is stellar defensively is beyond me. He is woefully weak when it comes to physical play, makes simply awful defensive decisions with some regularity, and can be too aggressive going forward... which leads to problems the other way.

What he can do is create a bit of offense, and on that front he can compliment a better defensive partner effectively.

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Old
05-26-2011, 12:35 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
No, he's very good defensively actually. I'd mention his great +/- but stats only interest you when you think you're using them to support another one of your tedious arguments.

I'd rather play Gustafsson than Kaberle on the point next year. Kabby is going through the motions to collect his money. Some sucker will give him a contract next year, I hope it isn't us.
not sure if serious. Really? Carle is soft as hell. is horrid in his own end. How many times did we see when he has a chance to rub out an opposing puck carrier and all he did was just try the poke check instead of playing the body as we saw another prime scoring chance go right by Carle.
Plus/minus is the most overrated stat in hockey. Danny Briere was a +20 I guess he was robbed of Selke trophy nomination too right? Mike Green was a +39 last season and we all know how great defensively he is.
I would take Kaberle any day of the week over Carle and I am not exactly Kaberle's biggest fan.

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Old
05-26-2011, 01:03 PM
  #994
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Midseason trades are always a crapshoot on chemistry. Don't have a ton of time to practice late in the year... people are banged up. Guys are used to one thing, and suddenly placed in a different environment.

Not to mention... similar to Versteeg, I think the funk has to do with a lot of other players more than specific to one.
Eh, I haven't watched a lot of the B's, but what I hear from talking to people around here is that he appears to be lazy, disinterested, and handles the puck like it was a live grenade. Could he be banged up? Sure. Could it be chemistry? With Kaberle, that's probable based on how long he was in Toronto.

Still, it's a pretty severe decline in the PP efficiency. And when your 5 on 5 time gets chopped as much as his has, I think this can labeled a pretty bad pickup at this point.

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05-26-2011, 01:17 PM
  #995
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New thread, as we're getting close to the limit:

The Off-season Thread Part II

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