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ATD2011 Jim Coleman Conf. Finals: New Jersey Swamp Devils vs. Ottawa Senators

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05-23-2011, 08:42 PM
  #51
TheDevilMadeMe
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Just to be clear, NJ is using the Starshinov line as the "physical line," while Ottawa is using the Bain line as such. This is why I was originally listing the Starsh line as my third line. Either way, as I said before, the Starsh and Smith lines will see similar icetime.

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05-23-2011, 09:42 PM
  #52
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Powerplay:

I'm not sure who has the better powerplay.

Pro Ottawa: Pronger-Simpson are the best pair of PP pointmen in the series.

Pro NJ: better PP depth. After Pronger and Simpson, I don't think Ottawa has another standout offensive defenseman in the lineup. (I'm not sure if Gerard is even as good offensively as Coulter and That isn't Coulter's strength). Whereever Bentley plays just moves around the weakness - if he plays the point, Ottawa's second unit forwards are a weakness. If he plays up front, Ottawa's second unit pointmen are a weakness.

I think Ottawa has a slightly better first unit but NJ has a better second unit.

Penalty kill:

I think Ottawa has an elite first PK everywhere but in goal. Does the advantage of Charlie Gardiner make up for the fact that Ottawa's first PK defensemen and forwards are a bit better than their NJ counterparts? Maybe, maybe not.

Depth penalty killers appear fairly equal at first glance.

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05-24-2011, 08:48 PM
  #53
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Was hoping to let overpass respond first but, since it's voting time:

NJ should win because:

1) Better goaltending.


Cujo probably would have a few 2nd Team All Stars or so if he played in almost any other era. But Gardiner was the defining goaltender of his era with 3 First Teams, and 1 Second Team in the first 4 years of official AS teams. And one writer thought he deserved the Second Team in 1928-29, two years before the official AS teams came into existence.

It's not an enormous difference, but I think Gardiner is much more likely to steal a game or two in this series.

2) Slightly better top line.

Maurice is even better than Jagr in the playoffs, and Henri is a step up from Doug Bentley.

3) Significantly better scoring from the 3rd line.

Since neither third line is used in a checking role, I think the extra offense from NJ's 3rd line is important.

4) More scoring from the depth defensemen without giving up anything physically and not giving up much defensively.

Basically, the Pratt/Boyle combo provides more puck moving than Bullet Joe Simpson alone.

Ottawa could win because:

1) Slightly better top defensive pair.


Gerard is an even better version of Coulter. Pronger is better overall playoff than Quackenbush, but I think much of his advantage is on special teams.

2a) Even more two-way ability from the depth lines.

Every one of NJ's depth lines has a defensive-minded LW. But Ottawa's second line is excellent defensively as a whole, and the third line may be better defensively too, depending on how you view Nash's defense.

b) Better overall second line, especially defensively.


I don't think Ottawa has that much of an offensive advantage on the second line, but there is a huge defensive edge, which gives them the best overall secondary line.

--On the other hand, despite more defensive ability from the forwards as a whole, I don't think any of Ottawa's LWs really stand up well to Maurice Richard.

The X-factors:

-For Ottawa: Coaching


I think Dick Irvin is a bit overrated because of longevity. I don't think it's necessarily a coincidence that Toronto got better in the playoffs when Irvin was replaced by Hap Day.

That said, he's a more historically decorated coach than Pitner and has to be considered a better coach here, especially at handling the forwards.

-For NJ: Championship experience.

The following players on NJ have captained at least one Stanley Cup winning team: Tommy Phillips, Henri Richard, Maurice Richard, Art Coulter, Babe Pratt, Charlie Gardiner*

*Trivia question answer.

Mayorov was the long-term captain of the Soviet National Team when they dominated the 1960s.

None of this makes them better players, but in a close playoffs series, such championship experience can only help.

________________

Good luck, overpass. There are definitely a lot of similarities between our teams.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 05-24-2011 at 09:04 PM.
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05-24-2011, 10:41 PM
  #54
overpass
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Better late than never, I hope - one last post to pimp Ottawa's special teams. I think these are a real strength of my team.

Bentley-Henry-Jagr-Pronger-Simpson is among the best first units in the draft, and clearly better than New Jersey's top unit.

Henry was an all-time great power play goal scorer, with superb anticipation and stick skills around the net. Jagr and Bentley were both highly skilled wingers, and there are few better options on the half-boards than Jagr. Neither Pronger nor Simpson is a top-tier PPQB at this level, but they're both very good.

Comparing to New Jersey:

Jagr = Maurice (roughly)
Henry > Starshinov (power play only)
Bentley > Henri (power play only)
Pronger-Simpson > Boyle-Pratt

New Jersey has a better second unit. That's OK, Ottawa will ride their awesome first unit.

Penalty kill - Zetterberg-Provost-Pronger-Gerard is a terrific top unit. And Ottawa has a ton of depth after that - Samuelsson and Gusarov were both among the best PK defencemen of their time. Hay, Modano, Gottselig, Nash, even Bentley and Bain if necessary...all good options up front.

Coaching - Remember that Ottawa has Dick Irvin, one of the greatest coaches of all time. He coached forever, and created a tradition of success in both Toronto and Montreal.

Edit: I should mention that I like the leadership group I've assembled on my team as well

Former captains: Doug Bentley, Jaromir Jagr, Mike Modano, Johnny Gottselig, Dan Bain, Rick Nash, Jim Peplinski, Camille Henry, Eddie Gerard, Chris Pronger, Gary Bergman.

Bill Hay and Henrik Zetterberg were never captains but were noted for leadership - Hay was an alternate captain starting in his second NHL season. Claude Provost was also an alternate captain on two Cup-winners.

Gerard captained a dynasty, Gottselig and Peplinski captained cup-winning teams. Joe Simpson also captained a team that won the Allan Cup.



Final argument

Why should Ottawa win?

Well, I have to give credit to my opponent - he's built a strong team and has argued well in favor of it. But I built my team, I like it the best, and I think you should too. Here's why.

1. Deep forward group

Ottawa can throw 3 strong, well balanced, cohesive lines at the other team, one after another. The puck possession, high-skill game of Bentley-Zetterberg-Jagr. The great two-way, transition-controlling line of Gottselig-Modano-Provost. And the high-tempo, hard-shooting, hard-hitting line of Nash-Bain-Henderson. Hay and Peplinski are very strong fourth liners as well. - both ATD fourth liners in 30 team drafts. Dick Irvin is a forward-oriented coach, and he's got a strong group here.

2. Great top defence pairing. Gerard-Pronger can do it all.

3. Superb special teams.

Thanks for a good series, TDMM - some good arguments back and forth, without getting to stuck on the details. Good luck!


Last edited by overpass: 05-24-2011 at 10:58 PM.
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05-25-2011, 09:44 PM
  #55
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The Jim Coleman is down to two powerhouse teams, the New Jersey Swamp Devils and the Ottawa Senators. A blood battle must be settled in order to name one the winner of the conference, and to move on to play the Regina Pats for the Milt Dunnell Cup.

Game 1: Jaromir Jagr is in complete control, he scores and sets up Mike Modano on the power play. The Rocket scores and so does Ziggy Palffy. Chris Pronger who has been crushing bodies all game gets his opportunity on the power play and bangs one home! Sens win Game 1, 3-2. OTT 1-0

Game 2: Tommy Phillips gets on the board early, and Chuck Gardiner is a brick wall. Henri Richard adds a second period goal and it's all Devils from there. Clint Smith and Vyacheslav Starshinov add third period goals and Gardiner earns a 30-save shutout. Devils win 4-0. TIED 1-1

Game 3: The Richard brothers deliver with a goal apiece in the first. But Jagr and Dan Bain strike in the second, Chris Pronger springs a breakout pass to Modano who scores his second of the series on a breakaway. Joseph would go on to stop many late third period shots and the Sens win 3-2. OTT 2-1

Game 4: Starshinov scores early, and sets up Palffy later in the period. Senators pepper Gardiner with shots, but only one Jagr goals gets through. Dan Boyle adds a late PP marker and the Devils win 3-1, tying the series at 2.

Game 5: Jagr scores on the powerplay, Eddie Gerard adds a goal as well. The Rocket fires one home and it's officially a shootout here in New Joisey! Jagr scores again in the second, the Devils respond with a goal from Shane Doan. Doug Bentley scores a big third period goal, and Jagr completes the hat-trick with an empty netter. 5-2 Sens, going back to Ottawa. OTT 3-2

Game 6: The Devils quickly respond to the Game 5 loss as Henri Richard scores an early goal. Gardiner plays out of his mind and keeps all pucks out of the net. Art Coulter's first goal of the series proves to be huge in the third. The Sens have no answers for Gardiner and he steals his second game of the series. Back to Jersey we go. 2-0 Devils. Series tied at 3.

Game 7: Jagr continues his dominance in Game 7 with a goal in the first. Joseph plays like Gardiner did in Game 6. Rocket Richard rips home a bullet and it's tied at one. Speaking of bullets? Bullet Joe Simpson unleashes a laser that Gardiner doesn't see coming. Sens hold a 2-1 lead after 40, Modano breaks out of the gate and puts the Sens up by two. Pronger and Gerard shutdown the Richards and Phillips and that would be all she wrote. The Regina Pats have a new rivalry, with the Ottawa Senators!

Ottawa Senators defeat New Jersey Swamp Devils in 7 games.

3 STARS:
1. Jaromir Jagr, OTT
2. Maurice Richard, NJ
3. Charlie Gardiner, NJ

HM's: Modano, Pronger, H. Richard

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05-26-2011, 01:19 AM
  #56
seventieslord
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Wow... but I'd be saying wow no matter how this ended. I had no idea how this one was going to turn out. I think these might have been my two favourite teams in the draft (other than mine! ) and either one would give me the dream final I was hoping for, if I was fortunate enough to get that far. Congrats to TDMM, you got further than 37 other teams. And congrats to overpass; I'll see you in the next thread... should be a good one.

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05-26-2011, 02:15 AM
  #57
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Kinda shocked how this one turned out. I didn't get time to vote this time (had a writing exam and a real exam today so I was swamped this week), but I probably would have thought we would have a seventies-TDMM final. Then again, I thought this is just one of those teams The Devils match up badly with. In a vacuum I think the Devils are better but it was a bad matchup so I applaud overpass for constructing agreat team.

Great series though that's certain.

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05-26-2011, 07:42 AM
  #58
TheDevilMadeMe
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Congratulations, overpass. This one was always going to be close; quite obvious from how much we both struggled to find criticisms of each other's teams. Sucks losing, but I lost to a great team.

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05-26-2011, 07:43 AM
  #59
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Kinda shocked how this one turned out. I didn't get time to vote this time (had a writing exam and a real exam today so I was swamped this week), but I probably would have thought we would have a seventies-TDMM final. Then again, I thought this is just one of those teams The Devils match up badly with. In a vacuum I think the Devils are better but it was a bad matchup so I applaud overpass for constructing agreat team.

Great series though that's certain.
Heh, I thought it was the other way around - two great teams, but he didn't have any left wings who could match up with Richard, while I had a couple who could match up with Jagr. Oh well.

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05-26-2011, 07:47 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Congratulations, overpass. This one was always going to be close; quite obvious from how much we both struggled to find criticisms of each other's teams. Sucks losing, but I lost to a great team.
Thanks. Yeah, this was a close one alright, definitely could have gone either way.

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