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Callahan Begins Preliminary Contract Talks

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05-26-2011, 03:49 AM
  #51
darko
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I'd do 6 years 4 million cap hit in a HEARTBEAT.

Same. That would be a great deal for Rangers.

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05-26-2011, 04:06 AM
  #52
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I'm surprised so many of you are expecting/hoping around $3.5M. I really don't see him getting below 4, maybe 4.5, depending on the length of it...

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05-26-2011, 05:53 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by xxxZENxxx View Post
I am kind of blown away that many here are okay with Cally having a $4M cap hit. I think that is a bit steep, no matter what UFA years you are buying out. He should be more down by $3.5M IMO.
Cally scored 48 points in 60 games, a pace of 65 points over 82. A 60 point player, plus all the other things he does, isn't worth 4 mil a year?

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05-26-2011, 06:17 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Cally scored 48 points in 60 games, a pace of 65 points over 82. A 60 point player, plus all the other things he does, isn't worth 4 mil a year?
He hasn't even come close to that production rate in prior years. Does he maybe deserve $4M for all the little things he can do on the ice? Sure, but forwards aren't paid for the little things... they are paid by their point totals. Cally hasn't shown enough in that department to warrant $4M per. Sather should be able to get both Dubi & Cally locked up for less then $4M, much like he did with Staal & Girardi.

I am just glad that the people throwing around $4M a year aren't the GMs of this team.

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05-26-2011, 07:23 AM
  #55
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I think a $4MM cap hit is too much for Callahan. Don't get me wrong, I love what he brings, but we can't let emotion play into this. I offer him something with a cap hit of $3-3.5MM, but I give him a decent signing bonus to make the present value higher.

5 years (for arguments sake)

$5MM signing bonus.
Y1-$3MM
Y2-$2.5
Y3-$2.0
Y4-$2.0
Y5-$2.0

Total of $16.5MM for 5 years, $3.3MM cap hit per year.

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05-26-2011, 07:38 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
I think a $4MM cap hit is too much for Callahan. Don't get me wrong, I love what he brings, but we can't let emotion play into this. I offer him something with a cap hit of $3-3.5MM, but I give him a decent signing bonus to make the present value higher.

5 years (for arguments sake)

$5MM signing bonus.
Y1-$3MM
Y2-$2.5
Y3-$2.0
Y4-$2.0
Y5-$2.0

Total of $16.5MM for 5 years, $3.3MM cap hit per year.
Signing bonuses are only allowed in ELCs.

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05-26-2011, 08:00 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Cally scored 48 points in 60 games, a pace of 65 points over 82. A 60 point player, plus all the other things he does, isn't worth 4 mil a year?
One 60 point season (pro-rated to boot) != 60 point player

I'd like to see us lock him up for 5 or 6 years, and I think $4MM is likely what he'll get, but paying him based on a pro-rated stat isn't smart. We should know by now that you have to look at the entire body of work, not just the players best season(s).

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05-26-2011, 08:03 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by xxxZENxxx View Post
He hasn't even come close to that production rate in prior years. Does he maybe deserve $4M for all the little things he can do on the ice? Sure, but forwards aren't paid for the little things... they are paid by their point totals. Cally hasn't shown enough in that department to warrant $4M per. Sather should be able to get both Dubi & Cally locked up for less then $4M, much like he did with Staal & Girardi.

I am just glad that the people throwing around $4M a year aren't the GMs of this team.
It depends on the length of the contract. If he signs a 2 year deal (doubtful), then he won't get 4 mil per year. But if he signs a 5 or 6 year deal, his cap hit will be 4 mil or close to it because he'll be giving up a lot of UFA years. Staal only gave up 1 UFA year and wasn't arbitration eligible. Big difference. Girardi, much as I like him, isn't as important to the team as Staal and Callahan.

Forwards aren't paid for the little things? They are paid for their contribution to the team, whether that comes from goals, assists, hits, defense/PK, or leadership. Callahan provides it all.

Wolski had 65 points in 80 games in 2009-10 with Colorado and Phoenix. The prior year, he had 42 points in 78 games. That's pretty close to Cally's numbers the two years before this year. Wolski got a 2 year deal for a 3.8 mil cap hit.

Wolski was an arbitration eligible RFA and he didn't give up any UFA years. Callahan is arbitration eligible and will likely sign for at least 4 years, 3 of which will be UFA years. That will drive his price up.

There isn't a GM in the league that would take Wolski over Callahan. It's funny that you say you are glad we aren't the Rangers GM because we would give Callahan 4 mil per year. Yeah, like Sather has done so well lol. Callahan was our best offensive player last year. I have no problem giving him 4 per year on a 5+ year deal. Hell, I'd have no problem giving him 4 per for 10 years.

But hey, if Sather can get him for less than that, great. We'll have to wait and see.

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05-26-2011, 08:08 AM
  #59
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Zherdev was awarded $3.9M in salary arbitration. Callahan made $2.4M in 10-11. Callahan will get over $3M in arbitration. Stop short changing this player the same way Girardi was short changed last summer. $3M is too much. After the season he had,$3.325M is a bargain. Look at the comparables for Callahan. We love you Ryan except when it comes to contract time. It doesn't work that way.

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05-26-2011, 08:10 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
One 60 point season (pro-rated to boot) != 60 point player

I'd like to see us lock him up for 5 or 6 years, and I think $4MM is likely what he'll get, but paying him based on a pro-rated stat isn't smart. We should know by now that you have to look at the entire body of work, not just the players best season(s).
Fair enough, and with most players, I'd agree with you. But with Callahan's work ethic, I don't see him dropping off. I don't see this season as a fluke, but rather a natural progression.

Yes, injuries could be a concern. If he continues to score at a 60+ point pace, but never actually reaches 60 points because of injuries, then we aren't getting full value for our money.

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05-26-2011, 08:16 AM
  #61
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Callahan deserves 4 mil, anyone who disagrees needs to stop looking at only point totals. Captain, Leadership, work ethic, blocking shots, great defense, amazing penalty killer, scores goals, has become a great playmaker (don't take great literally, u get the point. Him and Duby set each other up like hot water and cocoa mix) and he blocks shots. How does a guy like this not deserve a 4+ year deal for 4 mil a year, especially when he'd be giving up UFA years?

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05-26-2011, 08:19 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Fair enough, and with most players, I'd agree with you. But with Callahan's work ethic, I don't see him dropping off. I don't see this season as a fluke, but rather a natural progression.

Yes, injuries could be a concern. If he continues to score at a 60+ point pace, but never actually reaches 60 points because of injuries, then we aren't getting full value for our money.
I'm a big fan of the kid, so I certainly hope you're right. He's demonstrated the ability to score at each level he's played at, so the question is: Is he a 30-30 player, or a 20-20 player? $4MM for the latter is a tiny bit pricey, but given everything else he does, and his leadership role with the team, it's makes it a good deal. If he ends up as a 30-30 guy, I think it's a flat out bargain.

I'm just trying to remain cautiously optimistic.

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05-26-2011, 08:41 AM
  #63
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Get both Dubinsky and Callahan locked in LONG term.

6 years each.

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05-26-2011, 09:03 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by I Love Rebecca Black View Post
Cally or Dubi will be the captain either this year or next year (depending on the Drury scenario).

Book it.
OH GOD NO!!!!

Could you imagine Dubinsky's head after he was donned, "the captain"?! He would think his doo-doo dont stink (already he has that attitude) and would crap the bed do to him thinking everyone else is supposed to kick in the hard work and he just will float around waiting for the easy goals.

Its cally or 3 A's and no C's

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05-26-2011, 09:36 AM
  #65
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gotta lock him up for 5 yrs minimum.

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05-26-2011, 10:12 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by gotmonte View Post
OH GOD NO!!!!

Could you imagine Dubinsky's head after he was donned, "the captain"?! He would think his doo-doo dont stink (already he has that attitude) and would crap the bed do to him thinking everyone else is supposed to kick in the hard work and he just will float around waiting for the easy goals.

Its cally or 3 A's and no C's
wow thats some nice narrative you cooked up in your head right there. Wait let me guess you're still mad about his holdout?

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05-26-2011, 10:31 AM
  #67
Clowes Line
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Originally Posted by gotmonte View Post
OH GOD NO!!!!

Could you imagine Dubinsky's head after he was donned, "the captain"?! He would think his doo-doo dont stink (already he has that attitude) and would crap the bed do to him thinking everyone else is supposed to kick in the hard work and he just will float around waiting for the easy goals.

Its cally or 3 A's and no C's
I don't agree with your reasoning at all, but I do agree that Dubinsky should not be Captain.

At times this year when Gaborik and Callahan were out, Dubinsky wasn't acting lazy at all, but took upon too much work and tried to do too much but he couldn't. I think giving him Captain would put too much pressure on Dubinsky and he would stray away from his game. Cally has to get the C

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05-26-2011, 10:39 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Get both Dubinsky and Callahan locked in LONG term.

6 years each.
I would be more apt to give Dubi one or two less years. Cally will be the captain and leader of this team for the rest of his career, while the jury is still out on Brandon.

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05-26-2011, 10:47 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
It depends on the length of the contract. If he signs a 2 year deal (doubtful), then he won't get 4 mil per year. But if he signs a 5 or 6 year deal, his cap hit will be 4 mil or close to it because he'll be giving up a lot of UFA years. Staal only gave up 1 UFA year and wasn't arbitration eligible. Big difference. Girardi, much as I like him, isn't as important to the team as Staal and Callahan.

Forwards aren't paid for the little things? They are paid for their contribution to the team, whether that comes from goals, assists, hits, defense/PK, or leadership. Callahan provides it all.

Wolski had 65 points in 80 games in 2009-10 with Colorado and Phoenix. The prior year, he had 42 points in 78 games. That's pretty close to Cally's numbers the two years before this year. Wolski got a 2 year deal for a 3.8 mil cap hit.

Wolski was an arbitration eligible RFA and he didn't give up any UFA years. Callahan is arbitration eligible and will likely sign for at least 4 years, 3 of which will be UFA years. That will drive his price up.

There isn't a GM in the league that would take Wolski over Callahan. It's funny that you say you are glad we aren't the Rangers GM because we would give Callahan 4 mil per year. Yeah, like Sather has done so well lol. Callahan was our best offensive player last year. I have no problem giving him 4 per year on a 5+ year deal. Hell, I'd have no problem giving him 4 per for 10 years.

But hey, if Sather can get him for less than that, great. We'll have to wait and see.
I hear you in terms of Sather, but what he IS good at is playing hardball with the RFAs. He did a great job with Staal & Girardi and I expect the same with Cally & Dubi. Both cap hits will be below $4M IMO. Cally has garnered only one good statistical year (this one) and it just so happens to be the one he only played a portion of the season. While his overall play is impressive (understatement of the century), his point totals are not... so I believe that you are heavily overestimating his cap hit. And yes... players are paid for point output primarily, NOT intangibles.

Just to throw this out there... wouldn't Dustin Brown be a decent comparable for Cally? Brown has played full seasons (no injuries) and puts up similar (in most case better) points... and he has a $3.175M cap hit. Paying for those UFA years pushes up the cap hit a bit, but I'm not sure it is anywhere near the $4M range. Am I off base on the comparison? I know Brown is younger.

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05-26-2011, 11:17 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by xxxZENxxx View Post
Just to throw this out there... wouldn't Dustin Brown be a decent comparable for Cally? Brown has played full seasons (no injuries) and puts up similar (in most case better) points... and he has a $3.175M cap hit. Paying for those UFA years pushes up the cap hit a bit, but I'm not sure it is anywhere near the $4M range. Am I off base on the comparison? I know Brown is younger.
Brown is on a good contract, but he also signed it 3 years ago, he wasn't arbitration eligible and he only gave up 2 years of UFA. His cap hit has also been higher than Cally's the last 3 years.

That's the thing with signing young players. You can sign them long term after their ELCs expire, which inflates their cap hit, but makes them a bargain in the later years if they continue to progress. Or you can sign them short term for less of a cap hit, but if they continue to progress, you'll be faced with a higher cap hit down the road.

Lets say Cally gets 4 per for 3 years. That's 12 mil, plus the 4.6 mil he's made the last 2 years, for a total of 16.6 mil.

Over the last 5 years of his contract, Brown will have made 16.45 mil.

So the money is pretty much the same. Only the cap hits are different. And that's because LA gave Brown a 6 year deal and we are giving Cally 2 separate contracts. It's a gamble either way, and we really didn't have the cap space 2 years ago to give Cally a longer contract anyway. So like it or not, we'll have to eat a higher cap hit now.

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05-26-2011, 11:23 AM
  #71
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I'd do 6 years 4 million cap hit in a HEARTBEAT.
Im with you here.

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05-26-2011, 11:27 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
So the money is pretty much the same. Only the cap hits are different. And that's because LA gave Brown a 6 year deal and we are giving Cally 2 separate contracts. It's a gamble either way, and we really didn't have the cap space 2 years ago to give Cally a longer contract anyway. So like it or not, we'll have to eat a higher cap hit now.
This is a great point, especially about the money and how the separate contracts have made the cap hits different.

You take Callahan for 4 million a year because he's in the prime of his career, an on-ice leader, an off-ice leader, has to be one of the best PKing forwards in the game, showed he can be a 50+ point producer this year (48 is close enough to say 50 ) and is the face of this franchise's forward group.

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05-26-2011, 12:09 PM
  #73
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sign him to a nice 4 year deal. signing players like Callahan to 6+ year contracts is asking for trouble. the way he plays, you don't know how his body is going to hold up. look what happened to Mike Peca around 30, Darius Kasparaitis around 32 and Mike Ricci around 32.

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05-26-2011, 12:11 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Signing bonuses are only allowed in ELCs.
Oh, did not realize that. In that case, front-load, but keep it around that cap hit. Maybe:

Y1: $4.5MM
Y2: $4.5MM
Y3: $2.5MM
Y4: $2.5MM
Y5: $2.5MM
Y6: $2.5MM

$19MM over 6 years. Cap hit of 3.16MM, with $9MM the first two years. I know there is the "Kovalchuk" rule, but this structure shouldn't be a problem.

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05-26-2011, 12:12 PM
  #75
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