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Eller shoulder surgery; out 4-6 months

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Old
05-24-2011, 10:02 PM
  #151
Agnostic
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
When Eller is the next big center and savior of our team you're coming back to this thread and eating the biggest pile of crow. This kid is super talented, you think he's going to let 4-6 months hold him back? You're nuts, the guy is way too talented to let that **** up his career dude. This guys going to be like a big Plekanec. Don't be stupid.
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Yeah Eller only led his team in points by a wide margin as a rookie and was the league's 34th highest scorer. Pacioretty never played a full season in the AHL like Subban and Eller. Management was too impatient with him and it showed it's effects. Not the same situations IMO. In fact I'd go as far as saying putting him in the AHL now after a full season in the NHL would be detrimental to his development/confidence. This had to be done earlier this season.
Eller's performance this year can only be described as a major disappointment. When adjusted for ice time Eller was the 56th in productivity per minute of ice time when compared to the top 100 rookie ice time getters. In the Centre category he was 24th most productuve of 34.

Both Desharnais and White contributed more, in the case of DD considerably more. Eller showed a little more at the end of the season but overall his first season should be considered dismal failure. He should not have been on the big team beyond an experiment in October and I can only point to Moen and Pyatt as regulars who were less valuable.

Lets hope late signs continue and this injury promotes strength training that makes his performance goes north, but so far he's mostly potential and less reality.

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05-24-2011, 10:06 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by JimCareyPrice View Post
Eller's performance this year can only be described as a major disappointment. When adjusted for ice time Eller was the 56th in productivity per minute of ice time when compared to the top 100 rookie ice time getters. In the Centre category he was 24th most productuve of 34.

Both Desharnais and White contributed more, in the case of DD considerably more. Eller showed a little more at the end of the season but overall his first season should be considered dismal failure. He should not have been on the big team beyond an experiment in October and I can only point to Moen and Pyatt as regulars who were less valuable.

Lets hope late signs continue and his performance goes north, but as it stands he's mostly potential and less reality.
I wouldn't go that far. A lot of people have huge expectations for Eller (I remember being saying 20 goals, 30 assists...) and that's just unrealistic. Eller was kept on a short leash and was given limited ice time in the beginning of the season, which is more than fine for a rookie who is projected to be offensive on a very defensive minded team.

Eller learned to play a very good two way game under Martin and he eventually got more and more ice time towards the end of the year. When he was put with linemates that he could be creative with (Kostitsyn, for example), Eller looked great. It's hard to show off offensive talent playing on a line with Pyatt and Moen; it's just not what they're there for.

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05-24-2011, 10:06 PM
  #153
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Forget ice time. When he played with scrubs he didn't do much. With AK he started racking up a couple of points and generated lots of offense and it looked like we were rolling semi-3 lines offensively.

He's a playmaker who doesn't mind throwing his body or getting his hands dirty along the boards. He needs good players on his sides.

EDIT: **** it. Tricolore beat me to it.

Oh and does anyone have any news on him? I know surgery was good, but is he recovering well? Sunbathing in Hawaii?

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05-24-2011, 10:19 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
I wouldn't go that far. A lot of people have huge expectations for Eller (I remember being saying 20 goals, 30 assists...) and that's just unrealistic. Eller was kept on a short leash and was given limited ice time in the beginning of the season, which is more than fine for a rookie who is projected to be offensive on a very defensive minded team.

Eller learned to play a very good two way game under Martin and he eventually got more and more ice time towards the end of the year. When he was put with linemates that he could be creative with (Kostitsyn, for example), Eller looked great. It's hard to show off offensive talent playing on a line with Pyatt and Moen; it's just not what they're there for.
I hope his injury conditioning builds some strength and a filling out occurs, but for most of the year I saw Eller as someone easily stripped of the puck and knocked off his feet. It wasn't just a matter of having better linemates, he was mostly a kid in a mans game.

Desharnais came to the league vastly more prepared even with his smaller stature and it speaks to the idea that the AHL is a good development option. White and Pacioretty are further proof. Eller should have been in Hamilton at least half the season.

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05-24-2011, 10:39 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by JimCareyPrice View Post
I hope his injury conditioning builds some strength and a filling out occurs, but for most of the year I saw Eller as someone easily stripped of the puck and knocked off his feet. It wasn't just a matter of having better linemates, he was mostly a kid in a mans game.

Desharnais came to the league vastly more prepared even with his smaller stature and it speaks to the idea that the AHL is a good development option. White and Pacioretty are further proof. Eller should have been in Hamilton at least half the season.
I also saw numerous instances of Eller shrugging of the check of defenders. The kid is naturally strong on his skates which should only get better as he bulks up.

Desharnais is also significantly older so better preparation is to be expected. He also was put in a much better position to produce than Eller was. Desharnais faced butter soft opposition and had significant powerplay time while Eller played more important minutes and didn't get to play on the powerplay often. Eller was much better prepared than Desharnias in the sense of being able to face real NHL players and be effective.

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05-24-2011, 11:36 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by JimCareyPrice View Post
Eller's performance this year can only be described as a major disappointment. When adjusted for ice time Eller was the 56th in productivity per minute of ice time when compared to the top 100 rookie ice time getters. In the Centre category he was 24th most productuve of 34.

Both Desharnais and White contributed more, in the case of DD considerably more. Eller showed a little more at the end of the season but overall his first season should be considered dismal failure. He should not have been on the big team beyond an experiment in October and I can only point to Moen and Pyatt as regulars who were less valuable.

Lets hope late signs continue and this injury promotes strength training that makes his performance goes north, but so far he's mostly potential and less reality.
After reading your first line, please stop talking.

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05-25-2011, 03:55 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
Eller learned to play a very good two way game under Martin and he eventually got more and more ice time towards the end of the year.
that's all that ever needs to be said about his season. started not as a liability, but not too far from one. ended the season as being pretty solid defensively.

i wasn't that impressed with him at the beginning but the 'flashes' have always been visible.

bottom line is that martin teaches/embraces/supports two-way play and honestly, it's all the best for eller. he's never going to 'lose' his offensive talent, so best learn responsible play first - which he did!

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Old
05-25-2011, 04:45 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by JimCareyPrice View Post
I hope his injury conditioning builds some strength and a filling out occurs, but for most of the year I saw Eller as someone easily stripped of the puck and knocked off his feet. It wasn't just a matter of having better linemates, he was mostly a kid in a mans game.

Desharnais came to the league vastly more prepared even with his smaller stature and it speaks to the idea that the AHL is a good development option. White and Pacioretty are further proof. Eller should have been in Hamilton at least half the season.
I didnt see that from Eller by the end of the year at all...
He definately was our hardest Centerman on the puck (to get him off of it). In fact, he had a decent series against the Bruins, there was definately stretches during the playoffs where Jacques leaned on Eller's game to get through.
He definately wasnt a dissappointment to me in the playoffs, I remember him being quite hostile to the Bruins d. They didnt like the fresh faced kid very much lol

He probably should have gotten the start in the AHL this year... Just even for the ice time he could have logged. I thought it would be possible, but Boyd busting out as a hab ended that option IMO.

At the end of the day, Eller was the guy who IMO was one of the most improved players by the end of the year, He and Subban had the most dramatic, positive changes to their game from the opening night roster to the end of the season.
Seriously, if Eller gets faceoffs down... he could be a very memorable Canadien

On a side note, What Eller does in comparison to Pacioretty, Desharnais, or White is IMO in a different setting alltogether.

Patches IMO boomed in to potentially a great player. He's also a winger, where Eller's future is most likely center.
White , I think is an awesome find by the scouting staff. IMO we are only scratching the surface of what Ryan White could be. He's more than likely going to be a 3/4 line c/rw'er I hope for next season. You are right that White IMO brings a lot to the team, however Eller is not likely going to be competing for 3/4 lines, as much as 1/2. Eller IMO is also going to be higher on the Depth Chart as a Centerman, and White IMO may be left on Right Wing.

Finally, Desharnais... He definately would be the main reason Montreal's offence did not completely shut down, and there was definately bright points, where he was putting in pucks with ease.
I love Desi, But it was Eller that Martins was sending over the bench when it counted, I do think Des will improve his overall d game... But if des succeeds in wresting a top 2 position from Plekanec, Eller, or Gomez... frankly, I'd honestly be surprised.

In fact, to me... in the Centerman position, looking at lines, Desharnais & Eller I have the hardest time deciding 3rd line or 4th.
Des may be more talented offensively... But Eller is proving to have the skills to PLAY with the big boys... He keeps them off the score sheet too...
But Desi could IMO come back even better next year

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05-25-2011, 05:07 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimCareyPrice View Post
Eller's performance this year can only be described as a major disappointment. When adjusted for ice time Eller was the 56th in productivity per minute of ice time when compared to the top 100 rookie ice time getters. In the Centre category he was 24th most productuve of 34.

Both Desharnais and White contributed more, in the case of DD considerably more. Eller showed a little more at the end of the season but overall his first season should be considered dismal failure. He should not have been on the big team beyond an experiment in October and I can only point to Moen and Pyatt as regulars who were less valuable.

Lets hope late signs continue and this injury promotes strength training that makes his performance goes north, but so far he's mostly potential and less reality.
Stats, stats, stats....why do you and others rely so heavily on them, I'll never know. What doesn't show on the stupid stat sheets, is that Eller progressively showed strength, poise, grit and compete-level. This is the stuff real hockey people see. And is evident by how the coaching staff handled Eller. You could sense their growing confidence in him and that he was becoming a favorite to them.

Those are the things stats don't show.

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05-25-2011, 08:47 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by JimCareyPrice View Post
Eller's performance this year can only be described as a major disappointment. When adjusted for ice time Eller was the 56th in productivity per minute of ice time when compared to the top 100 rookie ice time getters. In the Centre category he was 24th most productuve of 34.

Both Desharnais and White contributed more, in the case of DD considerably more. Eller showed a little more at the end of the season but overall his first season should be considered dismal failure. He should not have been on the big team beyond an experiment in October and I can only point to Moen and Pyatt as regulars who were less valuable.

Lets hope late signs continue and this injury promotes strength training that makes his performance goes north, but so far he's mostly potential and less reality.
I can see that being the case for people with extremely unrealistic expectations.

For those of us who have realistic expectations i.e. rookie, big center, playing limited minutes, playing with limiting line mates, playing on a defense first team... he didn't exceed expectations but he met them. I believe he'll follow a Plekanec type development path. (His NHL development, though this all being said he's a player who should have started in the AHL, can you really say he did that badly?)

I didn't expect Eller to put up 50 or even 40 points his first NHL season.

Would have been thrilled with 20-25pts and a +1. He got 17pts (7 being goals, remember how long his first goal took? Half a season almost?) and was a -4.

So I'd say he met expectations. I expected him to top out at around 20 and like I said, would've been thrilled if he got more and a better +/-, that's about it. Plus if getting most of his points in the second half of the season is any indication of his development (it is) then I'd say he'll do fine next year. He'll probably notch around 20-25 pts next year, if he gets 30+ it will exceed my expectations.

Year 3 and 4 is what it'll all be about for Eller. Not years 1 and 2.

By year 3 he'll have filled out more, gained total confidence from his coaches and eventually, he'll get a shot at leading a real line, the 2nd line. Once that happens I don't see him failing and I could honestly see him putting up 40-50+ points as early as his 3rd season but most likely in his 4th when he's a permanent fixture on the 2nd line.

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05-25-2011, 08:57 AM
  #161
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I think anybody that watched all the Habs games last year would know that eller made a lot of strides but it wasn't as black and white as the stats would tell you. They barely gave him any PP time and it was pretty evident that his orders were to learn the defensive size of the game and compete, two things he did last year...the numbers did come around after a slow offensive start...Oct/Nov 23 GP 1-1-2 Dec/Jan 23 GP 2-4-6 Feb/Mar 27 GP 4-4-8 April 4 GP 0-1-1 His ice time stayed pretty low, 11:08 for the year...a high of 12:46 in March. I could see him doubling his offensive numbers next year with a bit of PP time(35-40 points).

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05-25-2011, 09:07 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimCareyPrice View Post
Eller's performance this year can only be described as a major disappointment. When adjusted for ice time Eller was the 56th in productivity per minute of ice time when compared to the top 100 rookie ice time getters. In the Centre category he was 24th most productuve of 34.

Both Desharnais and White contributed more, in the case of DD considerably more. Eller showed a little more at the end of the season but overall his first season should be considered dismal failure. He should not have been on the big team beyond an experiment in October and I can only point to Moen and Pyatt as regulars who were less valuable.

Lets hope late signs continue and this injury promotes strength training that makes his performance goes north, but so far he's mostly potential and less reality.
Try looking at production from even strength minutes because that's all Eller played. He would rank much higher as naturally a lot of the prospects who have more points than him not only play more, but get powerplay time and have the opportunity to get powerplay points.

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05-25-2011, 11:36 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think anybody that watched all the Habs games last year would know that eller made a lot of strides but it wasn't as black and white as the stats would tell you. They barely gave him any PP time and it was pretty evident that his orders were to learn the defensive size of the game and compete, two things he did last year...the numbers did come around after a slow offensive start...Oct/Nov 23 GP 1-1-2 Dec/Jan 23 GP 2-4-6 Feb/Mar 27 GP 4-4-8 April 4 GP 0-1-1 His ice time stayed pretty low, 11:08 for the year...a high of 12:46 in March. I could see him doubling his offensive numbers next year with a bit of PP time(35-40 points).
What I'm hoping most is that he's allowed to carry the puck more. Maybe he wasn't playing against the best opposition of the other teams, but he gains the zone effortlessly, it seems. And he doesn't need to blow by everyone (teammates included) to do it.

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05-25-2011, 11:55 AM
  #164
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All we need to know about Lars:
Gomez: 20 even strenght points
Eller: 17 even strenght points

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05-25-2011, 12:15 PM
  #165
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All we need to know about Lars:
Gomez: 20 even strenght points
Eller: 17 even strenght points
ouch.......

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05-25-2011, 04:16 PM
  #166
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All we need to know about Lars:
Gomez: 20 even strenght points
Eller: 17 even strenght points
Ay Caramba!

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05-25-2011, 04:33 PM
  #167
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All we need to know about Lars:
Gomez: 20 even strenght points
Eller: 17 even strenght points
Give Eller Gomez's PP time and it would get really interesting. Those saying Gomez faces the tougher opposition, that may be true... Gomez also has Gionta and usually Pacioretty on his line. Eller has not had that luxury.

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05-25-2011, 04:34 PM
  #168
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We don't look at hockey games purely analytically. There's a large emotional component in spectatorship. Surely some members of this board preferred seeing Eller on the ice to Gomez. Part of it was antipathy to Gomez but some of it was the feeling that the best was yet to come for Eller. At first Eller produced very little but he increased hi sproduction. Which Hab fan wasn't thrilled when he scored two goals in a game against Tim Thomas? If we kept one eye on the out of town scoreboard to see what Halak was accomplishing we were relieved in two ways: Price was outperforming him and Eller was starting to contribute.

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05-25-2011, 06:25 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
Stats, stats, stats....why do you and others rely so heavily on them, I'll never know. What doesn't show on the stupid stat sheets, is that Eller progressively showed strength, poise, grit and compete-level. This is the stuff real hockey people see. And is evident by how the coaching staff handled Eller. You could sense their growing confidence in him and that he was becoming a favorite to them.

Those are the things stats don't show.
It wouldn't be so bad if the stats were put in more context. The lack of powerplay time Eller had will affect Eller's point-totals as Watsatheo mentioned. Eller also wasn't sheltered all that much: starting just over 50% of his offensive or defensive zone shifts in the offensive zone while facing slightly below average opposition. Add the Habs' unlucky shooting percentage when he was on the ice and anyone looking for points is going to end up disappointed.

The best Eller stat, I think, has to be his Ozone% (% shifts starting with an offensive zone faceoff, not including neutral zone faceoffs) and Fin OZone% (same as before, but ending). His OZone% was 51.6% and his Fin Ozone% was 53.8%, so the puck was generally moving away from the Habs zone when Eller was on the ice - a very good sign.

That, along with watching him, makes me believe has has a bright future. Eller was impressive carrying the puck, his passing and defensive play looked fine to me and he handled 3rd/4th-line opposition with relative ease (especially for a rookie). All good signs for a non-phenom rookie.

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05-25-2011, 06:59 PM
  #170
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All we need to know about Lars:
Gomez: 20 even strenght points
Eller: 17 even strenght points
Gomez had the worst season of his career and Eller had his rookie season. Give Gomez a break guys... I guarantee he does better than Eller next season. This is ridiculous.

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05-25-2011, 07:04 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Gustave View Post
All we need to know about Lars:
Gomez: 20 even strenght points
Eller: 17 even strenght points
I didn't even notice but Pouliot had 29 even strength points, even though he was brutal at the end of the year those are pretty decent numbers considering his ice time and who he played with.

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05-25-2011, 09:44 PM
  #172
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I liked what I have seen for Eller this year and even more in the playoff where he was one of our best player along with Subban and Price IMO.

Next year I would like to see him partnered with more capable wingers, perhaps we could sign a UFA to play with him.. a guy like Scotty Upshall would look good on his side. We could do a Pouliot, Eller, Upshall line for our third line.

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05-26-2011, 12:03 PM
  #173
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Let's hope the surgery goes well. I had 2 shoulder surgeries, startinb about last Feb and it's a LONG road to recovery. Tons of rehab, and a long time before you can hit serious weights. I know Mike Richards and tons of players have had them and it turned out fine, but there are cases where it doesn't. One of my shoulders is still like 85% and bothers me and I can't push it too hard. I also had a private doctor in Mtl do it and was in PT 3x a week, but he might not be the same player he was, in terms of strength/shot. I know he still hasn't filled out but, shoulder surgeries aren't always 100% success..

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05-26-2011, 12:08 PM
  #174
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I didn't even notice but Pouliot had 29 even strength points, even though he was brutal at the end of the year those are pretty decent numbers considering his ice time and who he played with.
Pouliot was a hero here early on in the season. He lost his confidence along the way and became the forum scapegoat for a while.

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05-26-2011, 12:17 PM
  #175
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Pouliot was a hero here early on in the season. He lost his confidence along the way and became the forum scapegoat for a while.
It's definitely true but 1st half Pouliot vs 2nd half Pouliot = night and day.

1st half Pouliot:

Played with a more physical edge, played well 5 on 5 and didn't appear to be a massive liability.

2nd half Pouliot:

I'm assuming this but after not getting a shot on the top lines after being one of the best 5 on 5 contributors, gaining confidence of fans and media and seeing Max do so well, it probably hurt his confidence quite a bit having JM never really give him a real shot on a top line. After that he went into a depression (you could see it on the ice, he wasn't the same confident aggressive/more physical Pouliot)

If he played the entire season the way he did the first half, keeping it simple, working on his defensive game and just had more patients, not only would he have gotten a chance but he'd have done better with his chance. That and of course we'd all still be praising him.

I still think he has all the tools, I think his mental game is weak. He's fragile and JM took the same approach he took with other players with him. The truth is there's no one approach, different players need to be treated differently. (I don't mean one should be favored, just that Pouliot is mentally fragile and the coach should have adjusted the way he dealt with Pouliot somewhat.)

I'm not saying give him 1st line minutes and bomb into last place while he fails it up. I'm just saying give him the shot a bit sooner and when you do give him the shot don't cower at his first mistake and stick him back on the 3rd line. Give him a real shot.

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