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Eller shoulder surgery; out 4-6 months

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Old
05-26-2011, 12:20 PM
  #176
S Bah
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Originally Posted by Habruti! View Post
I liked what I have seen for Eller this year and even more in the playoff where he was one of our best player along with Subban and Price IMO.

Next year I would like to see him partnered with more capable wingers, perhaps we could sign a UFA to play with him.. a guy like Scotty Upshall would look good on his side. We could do a Pouliot, Eller, Upshall line for our third line.
You were watching all the games like I did and noticed how from the start of the season Eller went into the corners and always came away with the puck.As the season progressed the word was out to watch this kid.I remember the Bruin game where Chara cross-checked him six times in a row as they fought for the puck in the corner and no penalty was called.Lars didn't slash him back or take a stupid retaliatory penalty,these are the plays of an intelligent player.His passing abilities sometimes reminded me of Gilbert Perrault.He is a diamond in the rough,can't wait until he's completely polished,and see the results.


Last edited by S Bah: 05-26-2011 at 12:36 PM. Reason: Finish my thoughts.
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Old
05-26-2011, 12:35 PM
  #177
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Pouliot was a hero here early on in the season. He lost his confidence along the way and became the forum scapegoat for a while.
Two of the board's Scapegoat Hall of Fame members Michael Ryder and Chris Higgins will be battling for the Stanley Cup soon. Boards collectively lynch all the wrong players.

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Old
05-26-2011, 12:53 PM
  #178
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Two of the board's Scapegoat Hall of Fame members Michael Ryder and Chris Higgins will be battling for the Stanley Cup soon. Boards collectively lynch all the wrong players.
Not done yet.

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Old
05-26-2011, 01:02 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
It's definitely true but 1st half Pouliot vs 2nd half Pouliot = night and day.

1st half Pouliot:

Played with a more physical edge, played well 5 on 5 and didn't appear to be a massive liability.

2nd half Pouliot:

I'm assuming this but after not getting a shot on the top lines after being one of the best 5 on 5 contributors, gaining confidence of fans and media and seeing Max do so well, it probably hurt his confidence quite a bit having JM never really give him a real shot on a top line. After that he went into a depression (you could see it on the ice, he wasn't the same confident aggressive/more physical Pouliot)

If he played the entire season the way he did the first half, keeping it simple, working on his defensive game and just had more patients, not only would he have gotten a chance but he'd have done better with his chance. That and of course we'd all still be praising him.

I still think he has all the tools, I think his mental game is weak. He's fragile and JM took the same approach he took with other players with him. The truth is there's no one approach, different players need to be treated differently. (I don't mean one should be favored, just that Pouliot is mentally fragile and the coach should have adjusted the way he dealt with Pouliot somewhat.)

I'm not saying give him 1st line minutes and bomb into last place while he fails it up. I'm just saying give him the shot a bit sooner and when you do give him the shot don't cower at his first mistake and stick him back on the 3rd line. Give him a real shot.
I agree with most of what you're saying. The fact that pouliot can put up solid point totals without having been put with world beater line mates says a lot. I remember when he was on eller's line and they were our only offensive spark for about a week. Pouliot's the kinda guy who needs a coach to really try and help him out. Not sure if that guy is Martin.

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05-26-2011, 01:41 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
It's definitely true but 1st half Pouliot vs 2nd half Pouliot = night and day.

1st half Pouliot:

Played with a more physical edge, played well 5 on 5 and didn't appear to be a massive liability.

2nd half Pouliot:

I'm assuming this but after not getting a shot on the top lines after being one of the best 5 on 5 contributors, gaining confidence of fans and media and seeing Max do so well, it probably hurt his confidence quite a bit having JM never really give him a real shot on a top line. After that he went into a depression (you could see it on the ice, he wasn't the same confident aggressive/more physical Pouliot)

If he played the entire season the way he did the first half, keeping it simple, working on his defensive game and just had more patients, not only would he have gotten a chance but he'd have done better with his chance. That and of course we'd all still be praising him.

I still think he has all the tools, I think his mental game is weak. He's fragile and JM took the same approach he took with other players with him. The truth is there's no one approach, different players need to be treated differently. (I don't mean one should be favored, just that Pouliot is mentally fragile and the coach should have adjusted the way he dealt with Pouliot somewhat.)

I'm not saying give him 1st line minutes and bomb into last place while he fails it up. I'm just saying give him the shot a bit sooner and when you do give him the shot don't cower at his first mistake and stick him back on the 3rd line. Give him a real shot.
He played solid hockey 5 on 5, but he didnt play very well. He was not clearly above the other players, and he was playing against a softer opposition than Eller, Moen and Pyatt, for instance...

And then, Pacioretty clearly showed that he was better once in Montreal. Desharnais was also promoted, so you have two new players, both showing that they are just as good, if not better, than him...saying that he didnt get a shot is not exactly fair, because he did not deserved it in the first place...with Pacioretty and Eller coming up, plus Desharnais, the situation is even worse now, because the more Pouliot plays, the less they would. And they certainly deserved more that icetime.

He's like a collateral damage. You cant change your behaviour towards one guy just because things dont work out nicely for him...
The only thing they could have done is to be more proactive with him, communication, mainly, but if you start to handle a guy differently, the others are going to ask themselves why and etc...

Giving him a real shot ? He doesnt deserve it and even if, instead of who ? Pacioretty is better and younger, Kostitsyn is better and fitting a profile we really need, Gionta and Cammalleri, thats not even debatable.

You just cant have all of your young players to fulfill their potential.

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Old
05-26-2011, 02:04 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by JimCareyPrice View Post
Two of the board's Scapegoat Hall of Fame members Michael Ryder and Chris Higgins will be battling for the Stanley Cup soon. Boards collectively lynch all the wrong players.
Yes because they are THE REASON their team will compete for the cup... Not saying they haven't played well, but they are by no means THE REASON.

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Old
05-26-2011, 02:22 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
He played solid hockey 5 on 5, but he didnt play very well. He was not clearly above the other players, and he was playing against a softer opposition than Eller, Moen and Pyatt, for instance...

And then, Pacioretty clearly showed that he was better once in Montreal. Desharnais was also promoted, so you have two new players, both showing that they are just as good, if not better, than him...saying that he didnt get a shot is not exactly fair, because he did not deserved it in the first place...with Pacioretty and Eller coming up, plus Desharnais, the situation is even worse now, because the more Pouliot plays, the less they would. And they certainly deserved more that icetime.

He's like a collateral damage. You cant change your behaviour towards one guy just because things dont work out nicely for him...
The only thing they could have done is to be more proactive with him, communication, mainly, but if you start to handle a guy differently, the others are going to ask themselves why and etc...

Giving him a real shot ? He doesnt deserve it and even if, instead of who ? Pacioretty is better and younger, Kostitsyn is better and fitting a profile we really need, Gionta and Cammalleri, thats not even debatable.

You just cant have all of your young players to fulfill their potential.
I'm not saying treat him unfairly. I'm just saying different player different situation, and Max only came up midway through the season, he was never really given a chance prior to him coming up and imo he actually did deserve one. He was playing well 5 on 5 and he did play well. If he didn't play very well (wasn't getting PP/PK time) then he wouldn't have played well 5 on 5 period.

1) Pax wasn't up the entire season
2) Andrei was on the first line anyways but in any event had been moved to the 3rd line a few times.

I mean if you don't remember the extended periods of Moen/Halpern in the top 6 during times where Pax wasn't around or was injured, then I don't really know what to say. There were plenty of opportunities to give Pouliot at least 3-5 games but instead guys like Halpern and Moen got that spot.

I'm not saying give him Andrei or Max's spot, far from it. I'm just saying when opportunities to give Ben a chance presented themselves, he wasn't given the chance. This is also during the period he was playing well prior to Pacioretty coming up. He was playing well, in fact if you go back to early in the season and read info about him, he was being appreciated around here.

Again though I'm not saying give him an unfair advantage, I'm just saying give him a chance, and for the first half of the season I would say he more than deserved it. We had no 2nd line either, he was given like 3 shifts and moved back down after some jitters.

I think people forget the confident Pouliot we saw after the Lats trade and at the start of this season as well. He is capable of playing well and just needs to be given a chance. Might not be with us but with somebody else.

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Old
05-26-2011, 02:42 PM
  #183
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Pouliot would redeem his career with a coach like Boucher, who treats every single player differently, according to their individual needs. If I were the Lightning's GM, I'd try to get him.

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Old
05-26-2011, 03:27 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I'm not saying treat him unfairly. I'm just saying different player different situation, and Max only came up midway through the season, he was never really given a chance prior to him coming up and imo he actually did deserve one. He was playing well 5 on 5 and he did play well. If he didn't play very well (wasn't getting PP/PK time) then he wouldn't have played well 5 on 5 period.

1) Pax wasn't up the entire season
2) Andrei was on the first line anyways but in any event had been moved to the 3rd line a few times.

I mean if you don't remember the extended periods of Moen/Halpern in the top 6 during times where Pax wasn't around or was injured, then I don't really know what to say. There were plenty of opportunities to give Pouliot at least 3-5 games but instead guys like Halpern and Moen got that spot.

I'm not saying give him Andrei or Max's spot, far from it. I'm just saying when opportunities to give Ben a chance presented themselves, he wasn't given the chance. This is also during the period he was playing well prior to Pacioretty coming up. He was playing well, in fact if you go back to early in the season and read info about him, he was being appreciated around here.

Again though I'm not saying give him an unfair advantage, I'm just saying give him a chance, and for the first half of the season I would say he more than deserved it. We had no 2nd line either, he was given like 3 shifts and moved back down after some jitters.

I think people forget the confident Pouliot we saw after the Lats trade and at the start of this season as well. He is capable of playing well and just needs to be given a chance. Might not be with us but with somebody else.
No, you dont talk about being treated unfairly, but some might think that way. He might, for instance.


Playing well 5 on 5 ? Honestly, i was not really impressed.
We're talking about a 4th overall selection, who was going to start his first full season after being interesting during the previous season.
30-35 points with his icetime, thats solid, but he was inconsistent, he was not that often the best player on his line (it was often Darche), and he played against a quite soft opposition.
For a 3rd liner or 5th winger, i have no problem with that kind of offensive production if he works hard.
For a top-6 player and everything that implies, this kind of player may be a weight for his line.


Playing him alongside Gomez means that you have a struggling player plus an inconsistent one on the same line. Last year, they played together, Gomez was better, though, but the line had his ups and downs. When it mattered, it was a huge down, so i could understand the choice.

Playing him with Plekanec, and he's going to play against the best players of the opposition each night. (I still dont understand the Kostitsyn's demotions...)


Even if Moen or Halpern are not as blessed as he is, they work harder, they are more versatile, they are more reliable, especially defensively, and they are more consistent. For 10-15 games, i could live with one of them on an offensive line. They're two, so 30 games is probably a stretch if you want to be a solid team, but thats a safer bet than Pouliot.


Being on a better line means different "rights and duties". The expectations are absolutely not the same.
Pouliot didnt showed that he has the ability to be good enough to fulfill this duties. He was just above the average for a 3rd line, so i could understand why a coach is not trusting him for higher responsabilities.

If the guy is frustrated and losing confidence because he lost the puck, made a mistake etc when playing against a soft opposition, this is only going to be worse when he face better players...and thats not helping him.

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