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Thrashers to Winnipeg: done deal

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Old
05-26-2011, 03:41 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Wow for a guy claiming other people have their panties in a bunch

You seem quite pissed off. For one I never even commented on all of that, all I said is -30 million is worse than 0. Is this a statement you disagree with from a financial perspective?

PS: I never said I didn't take assumptions seriously or that I did, it's one thing to assume something about a situation you can see, a totally other thing to assume something about a person on the internet you don't even know. I can see a deal for Winnipeg is going down, if I assume this or that about it, it's because of discussion and has some relevance to the topic.

Assuming Kriss E is some scrub just because your on another posters junk, that's a bad assumption. If you want to assume because of this or that reason that Winnipeg is a bad move then so be it, you're entitled to your opinion/assumption. Assuming just because of one posters financial situation that another poster couldn't possibly know what they're talking about, it's a baseless assumption that adds nothing to the thread. You don't know Kriss E so stop acting like you know he's an idiot.

Correcting peoples typos when I can barely follow a sentence? I was the person defending the poster. Maybe it's you who has trouble following a sentence, insecure much?

Hissy fit with everyone I disagree with? Just because I can fill out a paragraph fairly quickly doesn't make it a hissy fit. I'm as passionate a fan as the next guy, I'm just a hyper personality type, if you want to go assume it's a hissy fit then go ahead with another baseless assumption that adds nothing to the thread.

Well you got me there, when I find somebodies opinion retarded I tell them. I only do this when it's once again got nothing to back it up other than:

"hey this guy is wealthy, he knows what he's talking about when it comes to billion dollar decisions, at least he must know more than Kriss E a guy I don't know anything about"

I know I paraphrased here, but come on. I never said I disagreed with the NHL's move either, this entire time I've been in the camp that's happy for Winnipeg so I don't even know what you're getting at. If you scroll up and read I actually used a thing called logic in order to argue my point.

I didn't just say "zomgggg this is a bad move cause uhhhh yeah cause I don't like it, it's a lateral move even though it's the difference of -30 million dollars a year versus roughly breaking even".

Sorry but that's just laughable. Maybe you should get your facts checked before you come out here and try to ******** your way into making somebody look bad. It only makes you look stupid.

Now go back through the thread and grasp at straws because everything I just said is the truth and you just have your head up your own ass.

Oh and also:

BRB going to go read through the thread with my professional reading comprehension again so that I can actually grasp at a few straws to try and make myself not look like such a retard now... BRB guys!

Kriss is a big boy and doesn't need you to defend him. He's quite capable on his own. I've had plenty of debates with him, sometimes heated, most of the time I consider them pretty healthy. Trust me, he'll be fine.

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Old
05-26-2011, 03:49 PM
  #102
Maverik
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Originally Posted by JuJu Mobb View Post
If Québec goes to the North East division, who's moving?

Buffalo?

Boston
Montreal
Québec
Toronto
Ottawa

That's what the NE would look like. What about the other divisions? (Without Phoenix, with Québec)
I am assuming Boston would go to the Atlantic.

NE
Montreal
Buffalo
Quebec
Ottawa
Toronto

Atlantic
Boston
New York
NYI
Pits
Detroit

SE (or new name)
Florida
Carolina
Tampa
Washington
Philly

NW
Winnipeg
Edmonton
Vancouver
Calgary
Colorado

Central
Chicago
Minnesota
Nashville
St Louis
Colombus

Pacific
Same


Last edited by Maverik: 05-26-2011 at 03:55 PM.
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Old
05-26-2011, 04:09 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverik View Post
I am assuming Boston would go to the Atlantic.

NE
Montreal
Buffalo
Quebec
Ottawa
Toronto

Atlantic
Boston
New York
NYI
Pits
Detroit

SE (or new name)
Florida
Carolina
Tampa
Washington
Philly

NW
Winnipeg
Edmonton
Vancouver
Calgary
Colorado

Central
Chicago
Minnesota
Nashville
St Louis
Colombus

Pacific
Same
where is the Devils N.J

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Old
05-26-2011, 04:09 PM
  #104
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I highly doubt boston would be moved to many epic games between the habs and bruins and also leafs and bruins. My guess is buffalo, but would boston really like to be in an all canadian division?

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Old
05-26-2011, 04:18 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by ourson View Post
where is the Devils N.J
lol.. as I was doing it, I thought it didn't make sense...

I added Quebec and did not remove Phoenix.. great...

NE
Montreal
Buffalo
Quebec
Ottawa
Toronto

Atlantic
Boston
New York
NYI
NJ
Phi

SE (or new name)
Florida
Carolina
Tampa
Washington
Nashville

NW
Winnipeg
Edmonton
Vancouver
Calgary
Minnesota

Central
Detroit
Chicago
Pittsburgh
St Louis
Colombus

Pacific
SJ
Ana
LA
Dallas
Colorado

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Old
05-26-2011, 04:23 PM
  #106
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The argument that Atlanta is a great potential market is an argument that could go on forever, and you'll never be sure if it's true until it happens (if ever). You can change ownership, you can wait and wait (and pay and pay), and maybe at one point it could have worked, but then maybe not.

But good businesses are not based on infinite patience, and something had to be done at one point. It's easy to dream about popularity in a huge market like Atlanta, but it's something else to lose millions and millions, years after years.

The NHL tried to develop this market, and failed. Doesn't mean they were wrong to try. But it didn't work. The show must go on.

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05-26-2011, 04:26 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverik View Post
I am assuming Boston would go to the Atlantic.

NE
Montreal
Buffalo
Quebec
Ottawa
Toronto

Atlantic
Boston
New York
NYI
Pits
Detroit

SE (or new name)
Florida
Carolina
Tampa
Washington
Philly

NW
Winnipeg
Edmonton
Vancouver
Calgary
Colorado

Central
Chicago
Minnesota
Nashville
St Louis
Colombus

Pacific
Same
Despite Flyers and Pens rivalry, I think they would rather move the Pens in the south east, with the presence of Ovy there and Tampa...

New York teams have a lot of pull in the league (outside of Wang) and they would probably lean towards moving Crosby away from their division.

You can forget about Detroit in the east IMO. The logistics regarding attendance and rivalries in the West are in question and is probably the reason the league will wait until they have more teams out West before moving Detroit out east.

Also, Colorado would probably go back to Pacific now that the North West region has another team to fill in the last spot (with Minny)

Dallas would then take Pheonix's spot to round out the Pacific.

NE
Montreal
Boston
Quebec
Ottawa
Toronto

Atlantic
New Jersey
New York
NYI
Buffalo
Philadelphia

SE
Florida
Carolina
Tampa
Washington
Pittsburg

NW
Winnipeg
Edmonton
Vancouver
Calgary
Minnesota

Central
Chicago
Detroit
Nashville
St Louis
Colombus

Pacific
Dallas
Colorado
Anaheim
Los Angeles
San Jose


Seems to make much more sense like this. Look at it on a map and you'll get why. It also distributes more evenly the change in time zones between Western team. The inequality with the eastern conference will always remain until there are more western and central teams to fill in the void.

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Old
05-26-2011, 04:30 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
The argument that Atlanta is a great potential market is an argument that could go on forever, and you'll never be sure if it's true until it happens (if ever). You can change ownership, you can wait and wait (and pay and pay), and maybe at one point it could have worked, but then maybe not.

But good businesses are not based on infinite patience, and something had to be done at one point. It's easy to dream about popularity in a huge market like Atlanta, but it's something else to lose millions and millions, years after years.

The NHL tried to develop this market, and failed. Doesn't mean they were wrong to try. But it didn't work. The show must go on.
And not once but twice

The Flames
The Thrashers

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05-26-2011, 04:38 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
And not once but twice

The Flames
The Thrashers
Wow. Had no idea. You learn everyday.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Flames

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05-26-2011, 04:41 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Kriss is a big boy and doesn't need you to defend him. He's quite capable on his own. I've had plenty of debates with him, sometimes heated, most of the time I consider them pretty healthy. Trust me, he'll be fine.
Of course he is but it's related to the discussion we were both having prior to it and also he quotes and insults me not Kriss.

So if now I want to bring up the fact that he made a stupid comment about Kriss, I'm entitled to. The way I see it if you want to go dish out baseless comments against another poster be ready for someone either that poster or somebody else, to call you out and expect you to back up your comments.

I'm not in the business of defending Kriss or his comments, it's a question of one poster basically trying to devalue Kriss' opinion just because it doesn't fit the same opinion as his friend. (In fact if you look up other topics where Kriss and I have posted we bump heads all the time, this just isn't one of those times)

Being that I'm in agreeance with Kriss and this poster is quoted me directly and not him, I feel it was fair to respond. I wouldn't have if he directly quoted Kriss but that isn't the case. Believe me when I say it isn't a question of white knighting but rather a question of general disrespect.

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05-26-2011, 04:48 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
Wow. Had no idea. You learn everyday.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Flames
Their logo was pretty rad though...

IMO the flames looked better on the A than on the C.

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Old
05-26-2011, 05:19 PM
  #112
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I think right now is a good time to read again the TSN analysis "Why not Canada: Winnipeg" published earlier this year:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=326714

Some pros and cons from this story:
Quote:
The MTS Centre ... With just over 15,000 seats, it would be the smallest building in the NHL and only marginally bigger than the old Winnipeg arena.

And with just 47 luxury suites, its potential high-end revenue streams would pale in comparison to other Canadian teams.

From the league's standpoint, the issue of luxury boxes and seating doesn't seem to be a pressing one.
"You're going to have a very intimate building that can generate substantially, not completely, but substantially all of the revenues that a slightly larger building could generate," said Bettman. "So I don't think people need to get hung up over a thousand seats."

The most common question asked about Winnipeg is if it has the corporate muscle. The research firm Environics Analytics turned up 272 businesses in Winnipeg with at least 100 employees and more than $20 million in sales.

That's just over half of what exists in Edmonton.

With a smaller building, Winnipeg would be a mid-range payroll team more along the lines of Buffalo or Nashville.

"There are lots of organizations that are in smaller markets that are highly successful," explained Professor Norm O'Reilly, a sports business expert. "So having the right owner and having a shrewd management team in place can narrow those gaps between profitability and a massive loss."
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy if they go to Winnipeg. But I'm not sure they will break even. Listening to Doug MacClean the other day, he doesn't think so either. But hey, better than Atlanta for sure.

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05-26-2011, 05:22 PM
  #113
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time to get rid of divisions

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Old
05-26-2011, 05:47 PM
  #114
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'what if?'

Thrashers move to Winnipeg next week..

PHX saga drags on all year again...

next summer PHX moves to.....Atlanta!



MIND = BLOWN

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Old
05-26-2011, 06:02 PM
  #115
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As a fan of the Montreal Canadiens, this move doesn't affect me. I'm happy because Canada is getting another team and there will be more games on CBC/TSN to watch this winter. I'd rather watch a Winnipeg game than an Atlanta game. As for the business side, I don't think Winnipeg has the corporate means to support an NHL franchise, but it's not me personally being affected, so in the meantime, I'm happy we'll have another Canadian team.

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Old
05-26-2011, 06:09 PM
  #116
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I hope Québec doesn't play in our division. It'd be easier to like the Nordiques that way. If they were in our division, seeing their ugly faces 8 times a year, I'd straight up hate them for sure.

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Old
05-26-2011, 06:19 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Generally people with real money don't feel that insecure.
Is this what you read in a book somewhere? I wonder how Porsche stays in business with all the insecure people not wanting to drive a nice car? Did I somewhere say to him I was wealthy, and he wasn't? Jumping to conclusions much? ******** over a thread I ripped you apart in years ago?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
As for the jersey comment, I thought it was clear. It was intended to show just how unexcited I care about the move. Do you care about Jerseys? Probably not. I feel the same way. It was sarcastic, but you clearly missed it.
Rrright.. when you are called out to be the fool, you were being 'sarcastic'. I get it now, I see how this works.

Quote:
I left Nashville and California teams out because they're not in trouble. It's not because it works in Cali, on the opposite coast, that it'll work every where else.
Wait a second, Nashville was in trouble at one point, but after years of making a success out of the team, the people love them now. My point still stands, that hockey can work in a non-traditional market, its all about the product and ownership.

I could care less about Atlanta, I never thought it was a great idea.

Quote:
Maybe you can tell the billionaires that are buying the team, making the move and have actually done market studies that they are wrong.
The Jest ownership will have no issues with finances, I never claimed they would, not once.. not anywhere.

Quote:
Doesn't mean you are right and it doesn't make it a lateral move.
I never said 'I am right' , its just my opinion. I can deal with the local nerds jumping at me, doesn't really bother me that much.

Quote:
Btw, a big reason why small market teams had a hard time surviving before was because there was no revenue sharing. Why do you think teams that are on the brink of bankruptcy or completely in it still manage to survive???
I know this, I never said a team in Winnipeg wouldn't survive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nilan View Post
Got to love Kriss telling a millionaire majority stock owner not to get into business . Habs, you might've been a mediocre personnal trainer if you didn't!
Voice the unpopular opinion around here, and it gets ugly, doesn't it?

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Old
05-26-2011, 06:37 PM
  #118
JGRB
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Originally Posted by Paddyjack View Post
I think right now is a good time to read again the TSN analysis "Why not Canada: Winnipeg" published earlier this year:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=326714

Some pros and cons from this story:


Don't get me wrong, I'm happy if they go to Winnipeg. But I'm not sure they will break even. Listening to Doug MacClean the other day, he doesn't think so either. But hey, better than Atlanta for sure.
It all depends on demand, obviously Winnipeg will have some of the cheapest boxes and seats in Canada due to the fact they are a smaller market. They should be at capacity for every game, which would put them about 22nd-23rd in the league for attendance.

Edmonton turned a 8.2M operating profit last season with 57M committed to player salaries, which was just 2M below the cap. They too have one of the smallest arenas in the league, there is many factors to be considered. There is little reason why Winnipeg (as long as the dollar is where it is) can't break even or turn profits (will certainly earn profits if they make the post season). Bringing an NHL team to the city should bring the city up a peg (no pun intended) and should help surrounding businesses, which in turn will help the city grow as well as the market to further support the team. As long as the dollar stays around parity, which it is forecast to be for the considerable future, Winnipeg and other small market Canadian teams like Quebec can be viable. It *all* falls on the dollar.

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05-26-2011, 06:45 PM
  #119
coolasprICE
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so which other U.S markets would be more profitable than Winnipeg?

Seattle?
Portland?
Vegas?
Houston?
Uuutaaah???

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05-26-2011, 06:53 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
so which other U.S markets would be more profitable than Winnipeg?

Seattle?
Portland?
Vegas?
Houston?
Uuutaaah???
What it comes down to is: Sure, those markets are much larger, but the percentage of fans actually interested in the game is extremely low in comparison to Winnipeg/Canada.

Seattle still needs to build an arena, to me this is a logical destination in the future for the NHL. It's proximity to Canada and the potential rivalry with the Californian teams and Vancouver is definitely of interest.

The NHL should do more to grow the game down there, support minor hockey programs and promote promote promote. It's the only way they'll get into the niche, and even then... It can often take generations to break into a market that isn't interested, how many of us are into the game of hockey because either our Father/Family or Friends we're? There is correlation there.. It takes a long time to grow interest in a non-traditional sport. Americans (especially southern) will always look at Football (NFL, NCAA), MLB, NBA, Nascar before hockey. It's tradition.

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05-26-2011, 06:53 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
time to get rid of divisions
Hmm, interesting. So does a team face each other team the same number of times? (in it's conference)
I think I like this idea. No more division playoff spot clinching. No more divisions profiting on how some of their teams suck. It may cool down some rivalries a bit, but would start up new ones.

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05-26-2011, 06:53 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
so which other U.S markets would be more profitable than Winnipeg?

Seattle?
Portland?
Vegas?
Houston?
Uuutaaah???
Hell Michigan or one of these

http://thejetpacker.com/69-towns-and...y-dirty-names/

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05-26-2011, 06:58 PM
  #123
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******** over a thread I ripped you apart in years ago?
Your best joke ever on HF!

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05-26-2011, 07:02 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Wow for a guy claiming other people have their panties in a bunch

You seem quite pissed off. For one I never even commented on all of that, all I said is -30 million is worse than 0. Is this a statement you disagree with from a financial perspective?

PS: I never said I didn't take assumptions seriously or that I did, it's one thing to assume something about a situation you can see, a totally other thing to assume something about a person on the internet you don't even know. I can see a deal for Winnipeg is going down, if I assume this or that about it, it's because of discussion and has some relevance to the topic.

Assuming Kriss E is some scrub just because your on another posters junk, that's a bad assumption. If you want to assume because of this or that reason that Winnipeg is a bad move then so be it, you're entitled to your opinion/assumption. Assuming just because of one posters financial situation that another poster couldn't possibly know what they're talking about, it's a baseless assumption that adds nothing to the thread. You don't know Kriss E so stop acting like you know he's an idiot.

Correcting peoples typos when I can barely follow a sentence? I was the person defending the poster. Maybe it's you who has trouble following a sentence, insecure much?

Hissy fit with everyone I disagree with? Just because I can fill out a paragraph fairly quickly doesn't make it a hissy fit. I'm as passionate a fan as the next guy, I'm just a hyper personality type, if you want to go assume it's a hissy fit then go ahead with another baseless assumption that adds nothing to the thread.

Well you got me there, when I find somebodies opinion retarded I tell them. I only do this when it's once again got nothing to back it up other than:

"hey this guy is wealthy, he knows what he's talking about when it comes to billion dollar decisions, at least he must know more than Kriss E a guy I don't know anything about"

I know I paraphrased here, but come on. I never said I disagreed with the NHL's move either, this entire time I've been in the camp that's happy for Winnipeg so I don't even know what you're getting at. If you scroll up and read I actually used a thing called logic in order to argue my point.

I didn't just say "zomgggg this is a bad move cause uhhhh yeah cause I don't like it, it's a lateral move even though it's the difference of -30 million dollars a year versus roughly breaking even".

Sorry but that's just laughable. Maybe you should get your facts checked before you come out here and try to ******** your way into making somebody look bad. It only makes you look stupid.

Now go back through the thread and grasp at straws because everything I just said is the truth and you just have your head up your own ass.

Oh and also:

BRB going to go read through the thread with my professional reading comprehension again so that I can actually grasp at a few straws to try and make myself not look like such a retard now... BRB guys!

Stopped reading at the point where I realized you thought I was talking about you, first part of the post did not apply to anything you wrote, ever [only 1 person called someone elses opinion utterly retarded, guess who].

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Old
05-26-2011, 07:05 PM
  #125
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It all depends on demand, obviously Winnipeg will have some of the cheapest boxes and seats in Canada due to the fact they are a smaller market.
I disagree. They will have the lowest capacity, and hence, probably some of the stiffest prices for tickets. For one, I bet there will be a big demand for the tickets, and two, to make up for that discrepancy in seats, the ownership will hike the prices a bit.

Quote:
They should be at capacity for every game, which would put them about 22nd-23rd in the league for attendance.
More than 20 teams average over 16,000 fans a game? You got a source for that?

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