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Old
05-26-2011, 05:31 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
WTF is this about?!

Look like the Bengals? What in the world have they done to our jersey???
Watch out. Timmy's on the warpath again.

First it was Zherdev, then it was Richards, and now it's the shopped WC jersey.

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05-26-2011, 05:41 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
If you still think that Mike Richards as a captain is holding the Flyers back from a Stanley Cup, I don't know what to say.
Nah, don't think he's holding the team back per se, but just that there are more experienced players on the roster who have already gone through learning the lessons and such that Richie is still enduring as a young captain. Given the pressure and criticism he isn't handling all that well, the questionable off ice activities, the somewhat inconsistent efforts on the ice etc., it seems a guy like Briere might be more suitable to wear the C.

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05-26-2011, 05:41 PM
  #28
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Watch out. Timmy's on the warpath again.

First it was Zherdev, then it was Richards, and now it's the shopped WC jersey.
It's only a matter of time until the pot holes on Broad Street feel his wrath.

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05-26-2011, 05:44 PM
  #29
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What lessons are these per say? I'd love to know.

I've seen him do physics, so don't use that excuse.
Well just going by Progner's insinuation:

"This is on the job training for Mike. I was brought in to help him be a captain and do all the rest of that and kind of help with my experiences. I think I got here, he was 24, he’s now 26. I think he’s made some strides. Everybody does things their own way. I wasn’t always this vocal with the media or this patient. It takes time, you have to have those experiences.

I think when you go through tough times, maybe this is one of them for him, you learn an awful lot about yourself, you gain a lot of experience. This game and life is not easy. Nothing in life worthwhile is easy. If it was, everyone would be able to do it. You learn how to handle different situations and it only makes you better as a player and a person, because you can always look back on those tough times and [know] I was able to come through those with my head held high and better. So will Mike.

"

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05-26-2011, 05:49 PM
  #30
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Nah, don't think he's holding the team back per se, but just that there are more experienced players on the roster who have already gone through learning the lessons and such that Richie is still enduring as a young captain. Given the pressure and criticism he isn't handling all that well, the questionable off ice activities, the somewhat inconsistent efforts on the ice etc., it seems a guy like Briere might be more suitable to wear the C.
Excuse me if I don't want a reputed diver who contributes as much on defense as Zherdev to be our captain.

The guy had an injured wrist all year that affected his play. That kills faceoffs, physicality, and shot power (it's not called a WRIST shot for nothing). He should've gotten it fixed it in the preseason when he aggravated it, and that is on him and Holmgren for not getting the surgery, and the Flyers medical staff for wrongly presuming that it wouldn't get worse as the season progressed.

Problems with the media don't have **** to do with the team's performance.

Questionable off ice activities? Like Cartsiephan's ******** about him being sent home from practice because of coming in hungover? Yeah, talk to Bob about that.

Quote:
"I never noticed anyone getting punished somehow. They’re all professionals. Everything is built on trust and respect. There was no stuff like someone going to practice while drunk."
If Chris Pronger says it is ridiculous for Mike Richards to step away from the captaincy for a year, then it's ridiculous for Mike Richards to step away from the captaincy for a year.

Quote:
People can say whatever they want about Richie, but at the end of the day you have to realize it's a team sport. Actually I did see one, is Sam Donnellon on the call? He's not? I saw one headline "Should Mike Richards step away for a year from the C?" What good does that do? That is the most ridiculous thought I have heard yet.

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05-26-2011, 05:51 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
Well just going by Progner's insinuation:

"This is on the job training for Mike. I was brought in to help him be a captain and do all the rest of that and kind of help with my experiences. I think I got here, he was 24, he’s now 26. I think he’s made some strides. Everybody does things their own way. I wasn’t always this vocal with the media or this patient. It takes time, you have to have those experiences.

I think when you go through tough times, maybe this is one of them for him, you learn an awful lot about yourself, you gain a lot of experience. This game and life is not easy. Nothing in life worthwhile is easy. If it was, everyone would be able to do it. You learn how to handle different situations and it only makes you better as a player and a person, because you can always look back on those tough times and [know] I was able to come through those with my head held high and better. So will Mike.

"
Funny how you eliminate the part where Pronger shuts down any suggestion of Richards giving up the C. Those "insinuations" seem to refer to the media to me. Confirmed by this:

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I think as his career progresses, he is going to understand more and more what the media's job is, and just to give you guys a little, just a little bit, just a little taste. Which is what I do, just give you a little taste. You don't have to give it all, just enough so you guys can do your job and leave him alone. That's all experience. I think it's a little ridiculous to be blaming one person. We win as a team and lose as a team - period, end of story."

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05-26-2011, 05:51 PM
  #32
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Here was the complete question to provide more context to what Pronger said..there is a thread about the interview.

It is no secret Richards is still learning how to be a captain in certain respects...Pronger is just confirming it somewhat and Holmgren has insinuated as much. Nothing too out of the ordinary but it's something to consider if the Flyers in the years to come go through some struggles which I suspect they will. Pronger and Timonen might still be around to offer support to Richards but at some point in this maturation process as a captain he'll have to take on more responsibility and be more diplomatic with the media. Richards in his interview offered good insight into how he's reflecting upon a lot of things. Not like he's not aware so that's encouraging...

Quote:
Q: Coming off that, a lot of fingers were pointed at Mike Richards, I am sure you have heard some of the things that were said about him.

“I have not. I have not. I have a simple answer for you. When a team wins, players get pats on the back or get all the credit. That’s usually your captain, your goalie, all the rest of that. When you lose, whether it’s fair or unfair, the people that get criticized are your captain, and your goalie, and all the way down the line. This is a team sport and for you to be successful you need everyone around you to play well. Whether it’s Richie, Carts, myself, Kimmo [Timonen], Boosh, Bob; I mean it’s not just one guy. People can say whatever they want about Richie, but at the end of the day you have to realize it’s a team sport.

Actually I did see one, is Sam Donnellon on the call? He’s not? I saw one headline, ‘Should Mike Richards step away for a year from the C.’ What good does that do? That is the most ridiculous thought I have heard yet. This is on the job training for Mike. I was brought in to help him be a captain and do all the rest of that and kind of help with my experiences. I think I got here, he was 24, he’s now 26. I think he’s made some strides. Everybody does things their own way. I wasn’t always this vocal with the media or this patient. It takes time, you have to have those experiences.

I think when you go through tough times, maybe this is one of them for him, you learn an awful lot about yourself, you gain a lot of experience. This game and life is not easy. Nothing in life worthwhile is easy. If it was, everyone would be able to do it. You learn how to handle different situations and it only makes you better as a player and a person, because you can always look back on those tough times and [know] I was able to come through those with my head held high and better. So will Mike.

I went through them as a young captain; I went through them as a player. Getting booed, getting mouthed off walking out of the rink and wanting to fight guys after games and all the rest of it. It’s not easy, especially on a team when the expectations are this high and the fans are this passionate. The media, you guys are bickering with one another trying to get the scoops. It’s not easy. I think as his career progresses, he is going to understand more and more what the media’s job is, and just to give you guys a little, just a little bit, just a little taste. Which is what I do, just give you a little taste. You don’t have to give it all, just enough so you guys can do your job and leave him alone. That’s all experience.

I think it’s a little ridiculous to be blaming one person. We win as a team and lose as a team – period, end of story.”

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Old
05-26-2011, 05:54 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
Nah, don't think he's holding the team back per se, but just that there are more experienced players on the roster who have already gone through learning the lessons and such that Richie is still enduring as a young captain. Given the pressure and criticism he isn't handling all that well, the questionable off ice activities, the somewhat inconsistent efforts on the ice etc., it seems a guy like Briere might be more suitable to wear the C.
Humour me. When was the last time we saw anything in the press about Richards' off ice activities? Considering some of the media would be drooling over a questionable act by Richards, I haven't heard anything.

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05-26-2011, 05:57 PM
  #34
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Humour me. When was the last time we saw anything in the press about Richards' off ice activities? Considering some of the media would be drooling over a questionable act by Richards, I haven't heard anything.
Silly Canadians, adding "u" to rumor and humor...

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05-26-2011, 06:00 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
Excuse me if I don't want a reputed diver who contributes as much on defense as Zherdev to be our captain.

The guy had an injured wrist all year that affected his play. That kills faceoffs, physicality, and shot power (it's not called a WRIST shot for nothing). He should've gotten it fixed it in the preseason when he aggravated it, and that is on him and Holmgren for not getting the surgery, and the Flyers medical staff for wrongly presuming that it wouldn't get worse as the season progressed.

Problems with the media don't have **** to do with the team's performance.

Questionable off ice activities? Like Cartsiephan's ******** about him being sent home from practice because of coming in hungover? Yeah, talk to Bob about that.



If Chris Pronger says it is ridiculous for Mike Richards to step away from the captaincy for a year, then it's ridiculous for Mike Richards to step away from the captaincy for a year.

Yeah, stepping away for a year is ridiculous. There shouldn't be a set term on it. If the move is made, you make the move and see how things play out.

Lots of people make all these excuses and defenses of Richard's captaincy, but really, what has he added or done to show he is entitled to just keep the C forever? It seems we're more often dealing with criticisms and knocks on his role as captain as opposed to any plusses or tangible benefits of it. I'm most concerned that the team continues to play the way they shoudl for only 20 or 40 minutes per game. This inconsistency has been prevalent for a few seasons now, and under Richie's reign as Captain. While it's not fair or accurate to pin all blame on Richards, it's not like he has risen above to set an example that, if only others would follow, the team would be fine.
What are the downside risks of moving the C to someone else? Would it really be that terrible? What are you so afraid of?

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05-26-2011, 06:08 PM
  #36
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Excuse me if I don't want a reputed diver who contributes as much on defense as Zherdev to be our captain.
This is inaccurate imo. Briere at center plays fairly well defensively, much better than he did at wing. He's also a veteran guy who wore the C in Buffalo, he's also an All Star, who happens to be the NHL's leading playoff producer since the lockout, setting a franchise record last season for points in a playoff year. He also has earned the respect of the room and uses it to inspire the team:

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=560969

Quote:
Originally Posted by article

"he is a guy who will stand up in the locker room and inspire his teammates around him to give everything they have when it counts the most.

That’s exactly what happened between the second and third intermission of Sunday’s Game 6 when they were 20 minutes away from their season ending.

Briere has scored five goals on his former teammate Ryan Miller in this series.

“It was a about four or five minutes before we went back out onto the ice,” said Laviolette, who knows a little something about great inspirational speeches. “He stood up while everybody was preparing themselves to go out, and he let it rip a little bit. I thought it was good. I was inspired. I wanted to go out, but I’m a little too old and too heavy. I wouldn’t have minded grabbing my skates and digging in to help. I thought it was a good move by Danny.”

Briere plays on the same line with Scott Hartnell and Ville Leino, and has done so ever since last year’s playoffs. So does it come as a surprise that Hartnell tallied the game-tying goal with under five minutes to go in the game to force overtime and then Leino scored the game-winner in OT to force Tuesday’s game winner?

“He’s a guy that when he speaks up everybody listens,” said sophomore forward James van Riemsdyk, who is having a break out post-season. “He captivates everyone’s attention. He fired up everyone, and we ended up going out there and playing a pretty strong period, so when a guy like that talks you definitely listen and respect what he says. It gets you fired up.”

While Briere is firing up his teammates, he is not just talking the talk, but when it’s the post season, he walks the walk.

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05-26-2011, 06:10 PM
  #37
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This might be a good time for one of the older posters to explain the Poulin situation.

Didn't that end poorly?

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05-26-2011, 06:11 PM
  #38
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Humour me. When was the last time we saw anything in the press about Richards' off ice activities? Considering some of the media would be drooling over a questionable act by Richards, I haven't heard anything.
Well, off the top of my head, how about bolting outta town leaving guys like Pronger, Briere and Timonen to answer the tough questions after the disappointing playoff ouster? How about Tweeting irresponsibly?

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05-26-2011, 06:12 PM
  #39
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Well, off the top of my head, how about bolting outta town leaving guys like Pronger, Briere and Timonen to answer the tough questions after the disappointing playoff ouster? How about Tweeting irresponsibly?

Hahaha, so going to see family and friends is a bad thing...when those guys stay in town with their own family? Where would they go?

And really? Tweeting?

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05-26-2011, 06:13 PM
  #40
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Yeah, stepping away for a year is ridiculous. There shouldn't be a set term on it. If the move is made, you make the move and see how things play out.

Lots of people make all these excuses and defenses of Richard's captaincy, but really, what has he added or done to show he is entitled to just keep the C forever? It seems we're more often dealing with criticisms and knocks on his role as captain as opposed to any plusses or tangible benefits of it. I'm most concerned that the team continues to play the way they shoudl for only 20 or 40 minutes per game. This inconsistency has been prevalent for a few seasons now, and under Richie's reign as Captain. While it's not fair or accurate to pin all blame on Richards, it's not like he has risen above to set an example that, if only others would follow, the team would be fine.
What are the downside risks of moving the C to someone else? Would it really be that terrible? What are you so afraid of?
What are the pro's of it? This team had the same problem of a full 60 minutes with Jason Smith as captain. It's something they need to deal with. Mike Richards has won as a captain at every single level he has played at. Chris Pronger took over as captain of the Blues when he was 23. Now people are holding him up as the epitome of a leader. Meanwhile, we're saying that Richards is never going to learn how to become a captain of a Stanley Cup contender. Who is to say Richards isn't taking the same path as Pronger? Hell, Richards has gotten closer to a Stanley Cup than Pronger ever did with the Blues.

Who would become captain? Briere? Diver, doesn't contribute on defense, disappears when he's not scoring, probably has 2 or 3 years left. What do you do after that?

Pronger? What changes with him as captain? Chris Pronger is not the kind of player who changes his approach to the game whether he has the A or the C.

Kimmo? Breaking down, probably retires after his current contract, if not next year. What do you do after that?

Carter? That might be funny just to see his detractors' heads explode.

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05-26-2011, 06:15 PM
  #41
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This is inaccurate imo. Briere at center plays fairly well defensively, much better than he did at wing. He's also a veteran guy who wore the C in Buffalo, he's also an All Star, who happens to be the NHL's leading playoff producer since the lockout, setting a franchise record last season for points in a playoff year. He also has earned the respect of the room and uses it to inspire the team:

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=560969
That's like saying it's better to break one leg than break two. The guy is atrocious defensively; how many times did HBL get stuck in the defensive zone during the playoffs?

You don't need to be a captain to stand up in the room to inspire the team.

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05-26-2011, 06:15 PM
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Shelley. He should be C.

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05-26-2011, 06:17 PM
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Shelley. He should be C.
Well he'll probably play as many games as, or more than, Pronger next year.

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05-26-2011, 06:30 PM
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Really though...what benefit is there in taking the C from Richards? I can't think of any. I guess it makes the people who don't like him happy, but that doesn't help the team.

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05-26-2011, 06:33 PM
  #45
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Is Sam Donnellon posting in here?!

Why don't we take all this nonsense to the proper thread? It would be appreciated.

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05-26-2011, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
What are the pro's of it? This team had the same problem of a full 60 minutes with Jason Smith as captain. It's something they need to deal with. Mike Richards has won as a captain at every single level he has played at. Chris Pronger took over as captain of the Blues when he was 23. Now people are holding him up as the epitome of a leader. Meanwhile, we're saying that Richards is never going to learn how to become a captain of a Stanley Cup contender. Who is to say Richards isn't taking the same path as Pronger? Hell, Richards has gotten closer to a Stanley Cup than Pronger ever did with the Blues.

Who would become captain? Briere? Diver, doesn't contribute on defense, disappears when he's not scoring, probably has 2 or 3 years left. What do you do after that?

Pronger? What changes with him as captain? Chris Pronger is not the kind of player who changes his approach to the game whether he has the A or the C.

Kimmo? Breaking down, probably retires after his current contract, if not next year. What do you do after that?

Carter? That might be funny just to see his detractors' heads explode.
I wouldn't say Richards will never learn what it takes, but maybe he's in the middle of learning and who knows when he'll be there... perhaps for this team where it is, built to win now, might benefit from a more experienced guy in that role. Briere is no more a diver than lot sof other players, so not sure where you are coming from with that, and as I said, at center he certainly does contribute on D. Regardless he makes up for it in lots of other ways, in his exceptional playoff performances, in his ability to rally the troops (as I posted in the example above) etc. After the few years of Briere's tenure, then you re-evaluate, maybe a more mature and developed MIke Richards would be truly ready, or maybe up and coming guys who look like they might have more to give vs. Richie like Giroux or even JVR take the mantle.

But please, answer my questions as to what are the downsides of such a move? Nobody seems to really give a solid answer for this aspect.

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05-26-2011, 06:35 PM
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When you strip the C from someone you are telling them you have no confidence in them. You usually trade the player after you do that.

There is a reason for that.

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05-26-2011, 06:42 PM
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I wouldn't say Richards will never learn what it takes, but maybe he's in the middle of learning and who knows when he'll be there... perhaps for this team where it is, built to win now, might benefit from a more experienced guy in that role. Briere is no more a diver than lot sof other players, so not sure where you are coming from with that, and as I said, at center he certainly does contribute on D. Regardless he makes up for it in lots of other ways, in his exceptional playoff performances, in his ability to rally the troops (as I posted in the example above) etc. After the few years of Briere's tenure, then you re-evaluate, maybe a more mature and developed MIke Richards would be truly ready, or maybe up and coming guys who look like they might have more to give vs. Richie like Giroux or even JVR take the mantle.

But please, answer my questions as to what are the downsides of such a move? Nobody seems to really give a solid answer for this aspect.
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When you strip the C from someone you are telling them you have no confidence in them. You usually trade the player after you do that.

There is a reason for that.
This. Downsides:

You are saying that you don't have confidence in him.
You are creating controversy in the locker room.
You run into the same problem a few years down the line when you're next captain retires.
You create even more pressure on the next captain.
You create a media circus.

What else do you want? Stripping Richards of the captaincy is not the answer to our problems.

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05-26-2011, 06:45 PM
  #49
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Really though...what benefit is there in taking the C from Richards? I can't think of any. I guess it makes the people who don't like him happy, but that doesn't help the team.
Well, you never know until you know, but I can see some potential benefits. It's a way of tweaking the chemistry, giving the team a little jolt, a wake up call...showing that things can't be taken for granted. Also, a captain such as Briere, will bring other qualities to the role. He's a player who isn't a "quiet" type like Richards, so he'll be more apt to speak up when needed, which can help inspire the team when they're down, and maybe create more accountability amongst the ranks. He also has a confidence and ease in dealing with the media, so there would likely be less conflict and distraction in dealings with the press. He's also a family man who is involved in community and charity (Briere's Bunch). He also sets a strong example with his strong offseason workout routine.

Richards himself might benefit from removing some of the pressure, scrutiny and criticism from fans and the press that comes with wearing the C. He could focus on his game and let his play on the ice do all the talking for him.

These are just a few aspects that the team could possibly benefit from in making such a move.

So again, what are the potential downside risks of such a move?

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05-26-2011, 06:46 PM
  #50
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Let's give Carle the C!



He's quiet, unassuming, loved by the organization, and led the league in even strength points from the blueline.

Oh yeah...

+30 > Intangibles

Just saying. Watch your ass Toews.

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