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Rafalski to retire, possibly Lidstrom. What does this mean for Markov?

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Old
05-25-2011, 11:52 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
Russian press say Markov can go to SKA
Russian press also says shortages in Oil will stop.

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05-26-2011, 08:50 AM
  #102
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Heard CBC last night mention that Holland will be active and replace Rafalski probably via a trade this summer and not FA. Well see

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05-26-2011, 11:41 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Heard CBC last night mention that Holland will be active and replace Rafalski probably via a trade this summer and not FA. Well see
Here is the man himself ... Holland speaking about Rafalski retirement and its impact on the Wings

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=563797

He will be looking for 2 defensemen this summer, and THAT is if Lindstrom comes back, otherwise he needs 3

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05-26-2011, 11:50 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
Here is the man himself ... Holland speaking about Rafalski retirement and its impact on the Wings

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=563797

He will be looking for 2 defensemen this summer, and THAT is if Lindstrom comes back, otherwise he needs 3
shouldn't be that hard to attract players to play there

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05-26-2011, 11:58 PM
  #105
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Wonder if this trick would work on Holland

Rights to the Wiz
Spacek
3rd rd pick

for

4th rd pick

Something like that. Would help both teams. Wings sure can sacrify a pick, they get two puck-mover defencemans, including one from Michigan region, and who knows, Spacek may found his own self in Detroit. And we get to free up space, and to keep Markov (at his old salary, 5.5M$), Gorges (RFA coming off an injury, shouldnt be so hard to re-sign), Gill (at around 2M$) and Hamrlik (at around 3M$)

Emelin - Markov
Gill - Gorges
Hamrlik - Subban
Weber, Diaz

How to turn a problem into an advantage for us! And I wouldnt be against helping Detroit, they are in the other conferance... for now.

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05-27-2011, 01:41 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
Wonder if this trick would work on Holland

Rights to the Wiz
Spacek
3rd rd pick

for

4th rd pick

Something like that. Would help both teams. Wings sure can sacrify a pick, they get two puck-mover defencemans, including one from Michigan region, and who knows, Spacek may found his own self in Detroit. And we get to free up space, and to keep Markov (at his old salary, 5.5M$), Gorges (RFA coming off an injury, shouldnt be so hard to re-sign), Gill (at around 2M$) and Hamrlik (at around 3M$)

Emelin - Markov
Gill - Gorges
Hamrlik - Subban
Weber, Diaz

How to turn a problem into an advantage for us! And I wouldnt be against helping Detroit, they are in the other conferance... for now.
I think that's a ridiculous deal for the Wings.

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05-27-2011, 02:30 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I think that's a ridiculous deal for the Wings.
Well, do you want to elaborate a little more about that?

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05-27-2011, 02:33 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I think that's a ridiculous deal for the Wings.
Man you don't post here enough anymore. I've been thinking about something around the rights to wiz for the rights to ericsson. Assuming signing wiz isn't an option/isn't desirable anymore.

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05-27-2011, 02:53 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
Well, do you want to elaborate a little more about that?
Well, I agree with him...


Not saying Spacek is tremendous value, but he is worth SOMETHING himself. He by most accounts is still quite far from AHL calibre, & seriously is very underrated here.
Yes, he's not scoring a la Buffalo, but he is a + player, who was playing some of his best hockey when we needed to maintain a playoff position.
He may be a bit steep @ 3.833... But it's one year, it's UFA, and it's very valuable at the deadline if it never pans out.

Serviceable d-men are usually whats wanted, and what costs teams at the deadline... esp. those with a UFA status... We may even keep him for our own reserves in the Playoffs.
His money is good for when Subban's and Prices contracts both expire next year (I.E. keeping the 3.8 on the cap would cement roughly 4 million to be made available for the two of them next summer).

So Spacek is already worth more to US than a fourth round pick, simply because he CAN and WILL easily make this team come training camp.

Second, a third round pick is a better pick than a fourth, and we are only picking TWICE in the first 3 rounds... so I am more partial to keeping our higher picks. If anything... our lower ones would be more expendable for a higher pick.

Third off, Wizniewski's rights, if in play on draft day, could be more valuable than to package everything together for signing chance.

UFA rights have been interesting to watch over the yers, some home runs, some strike outs... But to offer Detroit access to one of the TOP offensive d's in the NHL when they are potentially losing 3 regulars, (2 of them allstars) and this guy just put up 50 points... All I am saying is if Detroit is interested, there may be other teams wanting the first craack at him as well... <-- That's an X-Factor chip we could use to move up the draft (somewhere)... Because the winning team has a whole week to agree to a contract.

Anyhow, that's my reasoning, Im interested to see if it's close to why Mike8 disagrees with the move as well.

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05-27-2011, 04:25 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
Well, do you want to elaborate a little more about that?
Yes, I intended to. Didn't mean to sound dismissive in my last post.

While I think Spacek's a decent blueliner and better than many give him credit for, he's a cap burden. He's entirely replaceable in the UFA market for at most half of his cap hit--even for a reliable bottom-pair vet defenseman. Salei was signed for $750,000 (cap hit $1.1m), for example. Teams like the Wings stock up their depth with cheaper players. Spacek would be the 2nd highest paid defenseman in Detroit; higher than defensive stalwart Stuart (who was Lidstrom's D partner this year) and Kronwall (the eventual Lidstrom successor). It's unreasonable to think that Detroit will want to take on that cap burden even if it's only for one season.

Spacek's not a puck-moving top-4 defenseman, which is what Detroit would be looking for to fill Rafalski's shoes. He's not a threat on the PP. He's been a solid citizen in more of a depth capacity in Montreal. There's just no way that he fills what Detroit needs and so, even without the price tag associated with him, I don't see the Wings being overly interested in pursuing him. With the price tag, he's way out of Detroit's line of interest.

...

As far as Wisniewski goes, I'm not certain he'd be what Detroit wants either. Wisniewski needs to be sheltered, but he's a PP threat. I suppose he could be of interest, but I'd be shocked if Detroit wanted to pay the price Wisniewski's rumoured to be wanting. He just doesn't fit Detroit's style of play (puck possession, smart hockey), nor would he be a core player there (which is necessary to earn the amount of $$$ Wisniewski wants).

...

overlords, I suppose my scepticism revolving Wisniewski's fit with Detroit would respond (with my take) on the Wisniewski/Ericsson rights swap. I'm not entirely certain Ericsson's a good fit in Montreal, though I do like him. Thoughts? I suppose it depends on whether you bring Gill or Hamrlik back. Personally, I'd take Gill over Ericsson right now.

...

Ghost#1, afraid we disagree. I think you're right that Spacek's underappreciated, but I don't see him having any real value.

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05-27-2011, 07:13 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
Wonder if this trick would work on Holland

Rights to the Wiz
Spacek
3rd rd pick

for

4th rd pick

Something like that. Would help both teams. Wings sure can sacrify a pick, they get two puck-mover defencemans, including one from Michigan region, and who knows, Spacek may found his own self in Detroit. And we get to free up space, and to keep Markov (at his old salary, 5.5M$), Gorges (RFA coming off an injury, shouldnt be so hard to re-sign), Gill (at around 2M$) and Hamrlik (at around 3M$)

Emelin - Markov
Gill - Gorges
Hamrlik - Subban
Weber, Diaz

How to turn a problem into an advantage for us! And I wouldnt be against helping Detroit, they are in the other conferance... for now.
I'm not sure Detroit would do that, but it's not as far off as some would have you believe.

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Old
05-27-2011, 12:26 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Yes, I intended to. Didn't mean to sound dismissive in my last post.

While I think Spacek's a decent blueliner and better than many give him credit for, he's a cap burden. He's entirely replaceable in the UFA market for at most half of his cap hit--even for a reliable bottom-pair vet defenseman. Salei was signed for $750,000 (cap hit $1.1m), for example. Teams like the Wings stock up their depth with cheaper players. Spacek would be the 2nd highest paid defenseman in Detroit; higher than defensive stalwart Stuart (who was Lidstrom's D partner this year) and Kronwall (the eventual Lidstrom successor). It's unreasonable to think that Detroit will want to take on that cap burden even if it's only for one season.

Spacek's not a puck-moving top-4 defenseman, which is what Detroit would be looking for to fill Rafalski's shoes. He's not a threat on the PP. He's been a solid citizen in more of a depth capacity in Montreal. There's just no way that he fills what Detroit needs and so, even without the price tag associated with him, I don't see the Wings being overly interested in pursuing him. With the price tag, he's way out of Detroit's line of interest.

...

As far as Wisniewski goes, I'm not certain he'd be what Detroit wants either. Wisniewski needs to be sheltered, but he's a PP threat. I suppose he could be of interest, but I'd be shocked if Detroit wanted to pay the price Wisniewski's rumoured to be wanting. He just doesn't fit Detroit's style of play (puck possession, smart hockey), nor would he be a core player there (which is necessary to earn the amount of $$$ Wisniewski wants).

...

overlords, I suppose my scepticism revolving Wisniewski's fit with Detroit would respond (with my take) on the Wisniewski/Ericsson rights swap. I'm not entirely certain Ericsson's a good fit in Montreal, though I do like him. Thoughts? I suppose it depends on whether you bring Gill or Hamrlik back. Personally, I'd take Gill over Ericsson right now.

...

Ghost#1, afraid we disagree. I think you're right that Spacek's underappreciated, but I don't see him having any real value.
And there we have it... Good post

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05-27-2011, 02:33 PM
  #113
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And thinking about it, Ghost, I'm not sure that you're wrong that Spacek's worth more to Montreal than a 4th rounder. In fact, I'd probably say you're right. Spacek's a stabilizing presence and a warrior for the team. I think his contract makes him undesirable for others, and especially Detroit, but that doesn't make him a player worth only a 4th rounder in Montreal.

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05-27-2011, 03:17 PM
  #114
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The only question I have about spacek is that he's at the stage of his career where its not uncommon to see a decline in the player's abilities.

Other than that, I agree completely that spacek is a better player than what he gets credit for around here.

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05-27-2011, 03:42 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
The only question I have about spacek is that he's at the stage of his career where its not uncommon to see a decline in the player's abilities.

Other than that, I agree completely that spacek is a better player than what he gets credit for around here.
To me it all depends on what can be done.

Spacek isn't bad, but of Gill, Spacek and Hamrlik, I'd rank him third.

If the team could somehow move him and resign Hamrlik cheaper, that would be a net win, but is it worth the effort and disruption of dumping that contract?

Odds are that they take the path of least resistance and keep him, possibly at the expense of one or both of those guys.

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05-27-2011, 04:47 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
And thinking about it, Ghost, I'm not sure that you're wrong that Spacek's worth more to Montreal than a 4th rounder. In fact, I'd probably say you're right. Spacek's a stabilizing presence and a warrior for the team. I think his contract makes him undesirable for others, and especially Detroit, but that doesn't make him a player worth only a 4th rounder in Montreal.
Cheers

I think Spacho even if he is 'replaceable' material in the long run, and even near so in the here and now... is a favourable advantage for Montreal.
They have a mature responsible d-man around for back up... Yes, he is steep... but because his contract expires at the end of the year, as the season wears on, he will become more valuable nearing the trade deadline (if we are to deal him) because he isnt going to hurt us being a member of this team at all next year.
His experience, and skillset around deadline day, along with the combination of an expiring UFA contract makes his impact on the cap more and more minimal as the seasons wear on.
That's not even to mention if Montreal has a left side injury next year, with 2 d-men returning from season ending injuries from last year (Markov, Gorges), and a supposed physical speciman all but assured a spot on the club (Yemelin).
Finally, for a team that is trying to expand on it's attractiveness to potential UFA's... It's quite attractive to players to see teams sticking with guys who are playing out their years. The Canadiens didnt bail on their end of the bargain.
Spacho signed for 3 years, and at the end of 3 years, IMO our usefulness for him will probably expire along with the contract, and he goes UFA, or Retires. But even depending on what his mindset is for this upcoming season (13th NHL season, around 900 GP, 77 G, 340 Pts @ 38 years old +43 playing on some pretty lousy teams, A solid heartbreaking cup run w/ the Oilers, and 2 times going deep in the East with Buffalo and us)
He may just fit this room perfectly.

Markov IMO is a shoe in for resigning... IMO Gauthier made it plan #1 this offseason, I would see it as a MAJOR fail if he isnt retained.
Gorges is RFA, and IMO will supplant Gill in the depth order. He isnt as tall, or one could argue for hours as to who is elite on the PK... But Gorges has been identified as a major vocal leader in the dressing room, and a stabilyzing force on the defence.
At this point, an RFA Gorges >> Both Gill & Hamrlik.
Emelin was signed to play for Montreal. IMO the only thing that stops him from being on the opening day roster (or pressbox, as a rostered player) is him falling completely flat on his face. I am optimistic however, as he does bring an element that the Habs lacked, and needed to address.

Emelin, being a rookie, IMO will be brought along slowly... He wont be sent down, but he may be sharing time with Jaro Spacek.

All 4 are LD's.

This means, that we drop Gill (2.25), Hamrlik (5.5), & Mara (750 K)

If I am Montreal, out of those 3, I would have the order
1) Mara -- Cheap! brought a physical element, was decent in the run, and is still young enough to be a decent NHL'er.
2) Hamrlik -- At a reduced salary. He has given the organization 4 great seasons IMO... Very crucial to our team when Markov went down... IMO Hamr still has some left in the gas tank... It's his age that drops his value.
3) Gill -- He's losing a step 5 on 5... but is showing the world how PK'ing works as a 6'7 bohemoth. Gorges IMO supplants Gill as the defensive specialist on this team.

As far as the right side goes,
Weber and Subban IMO are going to be ft NHL'ers on the RS this year. That leaves ONE spot open on the RS, and we have a few contenders within the organization there for the role.

IMO the question is what does the organization believe the depth chart to be?
The LS is easy to read IMO:

Markov resigned, #1 LD
Gorges resigned #2 LD
Spacek signed 1 yr remains # 3/Spare
Emelin signed 1 yr, RFA #3/Spare

The RS, does Subban play with Markov, or Gorges? & Does Weber play with Gorges, or the Spacek/Emelin combo?

That will answer where the habs are headed for the longer term.

Montreal does have some more prospects making their way in to legitimate NHL chances... Or they can sign a free agent. But considering the spot is open on the RS, I dont see the value of spending millions retaining the services of very serviceable players, whose holes are more or less sealed, and ask them to play their opposite wing.

Within the organization, M. Carle is coming off an AHL Allstar season, and was a driving force to Hamilton's impressive playoff run. Gauthier has also signed Diaz from Switzerland... who potentially could step in to a role as early as next year, Or another option is resigning the UFA Wisniewski, seeing as he was impressive in his stay here, fit in well and the money made available to us via the departures of Hamrlik & Gill make him affordable.

With a 65 + million dollar cap, it's not outrageous to think 15-20 million will secure a SOLID top 4. Esp. considering that Gainey's mess that Gauthier inherited on the defence has/was already costing us that.
I am not at all worried of spending the money, so long as it is responsibly.
Gotta remember, a solid nucleus being built from the back end out is going slowly, but the pieces are still being put in to place.
To me, a very solid #2 RHD is definately what I hope Gauthier has in mind of when it comes to UFA d (save for Markov who I feel is irreplaceable on the Canadiens defence... He is key for us to be a contender).

I dont think it's OUT of the Question that Gauthier is FINISHED tinkering with the D after doing his resigning of Gorges/Markov.

With the RS being the opening, and 2-3 contenders vying for a position... We may just save the money alltogether, wait for something attractive for the forwards, and let the D Nucleus gel together, with Carle, Klubertanz (who was also impressive in Hamilton), or Diaz.

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05-27-2011, 04:55 PM
  #117
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To me it all depends on what can be done.

Spacek isn't bad, but of Gill, Spacek and Hamrlik, I'd rank him third.

If the team could somehow move him and resign Hamrlik cheaper, that would be a net win, but is it worth the effort and disruption of dumping that contract?

Odds are that they take the path of least resistance and keep him, possibly at the expense of one or both of those guys.
I would too... The problem lies in the Ginormous contract, and the slew of UFA's available who are better, younger and cheaper than Spacek on July One.
He has very little to no value right now (probably even negative, if any at all)... BUT... come late february, when the 2012 trade deadline hits, the salary caps usually have room due to injuries, and Spacek may be a decent filler for teams going in to the playoffs with an injured defence. He's had tonnes of experience, and is UFA that summer. He stays on their books for about a month worth of his salary.

That all being said, I think it is frowned upon by the NHLPA to be dumping players at Spacek's point of his career (nearing the end)... The only way he goes is to a cup contender IMO. Or a regular playoff role on an injury ravaged team. Otherwise he's signed to us for 3 years, and IMO we will probably see them played out.

Gill and Hamrlik are BOTH more valuable to us... However it's the situation that Spacek has the CURRENT valueless contract.

If it was swung out, and Spacek was traded prior to July 1st, I'd LOVE to retain the services of Hamrlik... IMO he deserves the Contract for the years he put in.

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05-29-2011, 08:45 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Ghost # 1 View Post
I would too... The problem lies in the Ginormous contract, and the slew of UFA's available who are better, younger and cheaper than Spacek on July One.
He has very little to no value right now (probably even negative, if any at all)... BUT... come late february, when the 2012 trade deadline hits, the salary caps usually have room due to injuries, and Spacek may be a decent filler for teams going in to the playoffs with an injured defence. He's had tonnes of experience, and is UFA that summer. He stays on their books for about a month worth of his salary.

That all being said, I think it is frowned upon by the NHLPA to be dumping players at Spacek's point of his career (nearing the end)... The only way he goes is to a cup contender IMO. Or a regular playoff role on an injury ravaged team. Otherwise he's signed to us for 3 years, and IMO we will probably see them played out.

Gill and Hamrlik are BOTH more valuable to us... However it's the situation that Spacek has the CURRENT valueless contract.

If it was swung out, and Spacek was traded prior to July 1st, I'd LOVE to retain the services of Hamrlik... IMO he deserves the Contract for the years he put in.
I would definately keep Hamr over Spacek, if he cuts his contract in half. I thought Spacek was absolutey putrid in the playoffs.it seemed every time he was on the ice,the B's had a scoring chance.And seeing him lose the puck in his own end to avoid a hit was disgusting. I was praying for Mara to start game 7. When Lucic boarded Spacek,I was thinking no Lucic or Spacek for game 7,and wasn't exactly sad about it.

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05-29-2011, 06:26 PM
  #119
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I would definately keep Hamr over Spacek, if he cuts his contract in half. I thought Spacek was absolutey putrid in the playoffs.it seemed every time he was on the ice,the B's had a scoring chance.And seeing him lose the puck in his own end to avoid a hit was disgusting. I was praying for Mara to start game 7. When Lucic boarded Spacek,I was thinking no Lucic or Spacek for game 7,and wasn't exactly sad about it.
While I agree that his performance wasnt great, the Habs were asking more out of him than he could possibly deliver at that point.
While I dont think he's worth the contract anymore (3.833 is a bit much for his game), I do think he gets a whole lot more flack and blame than what is deserved to him.
An example is Hal Gill 5 on 5 or Jaro Spacek?
Lotta people will say Gill... and just like that Metamucil commercial... They'd be wrong.

Spacek is a 2 way defender, he can beat oppostions on both ends of the ice. Where it has been mentioned on MORE than one occasion that Gill is a liability 5/5... He's fantastic 5/4 (PK) but does little else to warrant being above Spacek at this point.

Before others say he's a dressing room presence... We've gotta realize that there are a few 'presences' that flat out provide more than he does. Gill has served his time well...

The reason WHY I bring up Gill, is the fact that in many people's eyes Gill > Hamr as well... (which is kind of rediculous... Esp. when you see how much icetime and who against the 2 guys played)


In that list, it definately, to me is:
Hamr
Spacho
Gill.

Gotta give the guy some credit, as he was a + player (highest on the team -- +9), and put up 16 points (which is definately falling off to his Buffalo days)...

He COULD fulfill the # 3 role on this team next year himself, simply due to the fact that he'd be platooning with Emelin (which may actually work out favourably for Spacek)

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05-30-2011, 10:03 PM
  #120
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Markov's not going anywhere. He just got his Canadian citizenship. He wants to be in Montreal. He's not gunna bolt for some washed up wings team, he's staying put with Montreal. With PK Subban, Carey Price, and Patches, he see's this team turning into a ontender before his eye's. They are on the cusp of becoming a contender and IMO would have been one this year if not for his injury, among a couple others.

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05-30-2011, 10:30 PM
  #121
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Markov isnt going to sign more than a 2 years deal, his knee isnt "assurable" anymore and another injury to the same knee would probably result as a carreer ending.. I expect him to resign with us for about the same money...


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