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The Off-season Thread Part II

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Old
05-27-2011, 01:12 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
How did Richards play in the Cup finals?
How did Kane/Toews/Byfuglien do? He was charged with shutting them down and he did. It's too bad Michael Leighton has the five hole the size of Texas.

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Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
What are his teammates going to say to the press when asked? You know and I know that they're not going to say anything bad, even if they do have some concerns. You hardly ever hear of any player throw a teammate, let alone a captain under the bus. It's just not done.
Players don't have to go out of their way to say that thoughts of Mike Richards stepping away from the captaincy are "the most ridiculous thing [they've] ever heard."


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Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
Briere rallied the team to victory with a never say die speech in Game 6 against Buffalo this season. He made similar statements and had a similar undying spirit in last season's run as he led all scorers and keyed the team to victory. He leads all Flyers in playoff scoring, including several game winning goals. He conducts himself with class and sets a good example off the ice with his charity work. He also sets a good example with his rigorous off season training regimen. He's conducted himself with confidence and grace and has a good rapport with the press/media, acting as a fine representative of the organization. He's not a quiet/shy type and has the full command and respect of everyone in the room and he's not afraid to speak up.
What did he do in the Boston series? Because by your logic, that's what matters in determining someone's leadership.

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Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
Pronger wouldn't be my first choice. He's more volatile and brash. But he would more than likely hold players more accountable for their play than Richie.
Exactly my point: He already does that. See the Giroux situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
I think there's enough substance to have some concerns, such as coming up small in the finals last season, and against Boston this season, inconsistent efforts on the ice during the past couple of seasons, trying to be too cute or do too much with the puck, not playing with fire like he used to, being quiet/introverted amongst a veteran team with lots of egos, complaining about the lines/pp shuffling (undermining the coach) in public statements, whining about the refs in public, showing up later than most for training camp, in less than great shape, with a notion that he'll just "work himself" into shape...taking practices/optional skates off, confrontations with the press, irresponsible use of online media, pictures with pornstars and drinking with young girls. So, yeah, he hasn't exactly done a particualrly great job with various aspects of the role of captain.

Look, I know this sounds like I'm just coming down real hard on Richards, but I actually do think he's a very good player, who can help this team win a Cup someday. By no means would I want to see him traded. I just think if you look at it objectively, consider all the things I've mentioned, there are other candidates on this team that could very well be more suitable in the role of captain. I don't think this is nearly as unreasonable an idea as many on this thread seem to think and those who share my view don't deserve to be ridiculed.
And what about Briere, the saint? He hasn't been streaky? Where was he from January to March and in the Boston series? Where's his consistent efforts on defense?

And Richards is unfit for the captaincy because of questionable pictures?





And Richards isn't fit for complaining about referees? Where's the complaints about Pronger calling a ref a ****ing woman back in November? Undermining the coach? He said that it's hard to get a consistent powerplay when there aren't consistent powerplay units. Is that throwing the coach under the bus? And Richards is being penalized for skipping optional skates? HE HAD PNEUMONIA AND A BROKEN WRIST! That's why "optional" skates are "optional". Players who need time off can take time off. Skipping practice? When did Richards skip practice? Irresponsible use of media? Like the thing that Anthony SanFilippo praised earlier this offseason?

Richards is not the problem with this team. I don't know how many ways I can say it.

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Old
05-27-2011, 01:14 AM
  #77
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haha. Ghost of Downie is both mad, AND correct.

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Old
05-27-2011, 01:16 AM
  #78
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At what point is it easier to just nod our heads and say "yes. Richie is bad?"
He sucks, we should have at least 3 cups by now if he was any kind of captain.

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Old
05-27-2011, 01:21 AM
  #79
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haha. Ghost of Downie is both mad, AND correct.
Someone's owning someone in here.

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05-27-2011, 01:27 AM
  #80
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Someone's owning someone in here.
Paging Canadian in here to discuss Yzerman as captain. Canadian, please report to this thread.

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05-27-2011, 01:28 AM
  #81
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I have a solution that should make everyone (fauxflex) happy.

Steps:

1. Trade for Joni Pitkanen
2. Bring Joni Pitkanens mother with him
3. Rely heavily on media reports
4. Media reports have indicated Joni Pitkanen lives with his mother, only hangsout with his mother
5.???
6. Stanley Cup due to Joni Pitkanen being a shut-in-mothers-boy



*Disclaimer: None of this could truly be an actual depiction of Joni Pitkanen


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Old
05-27-2011, 01:29 AM
  #82
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This whole discussion is nonsense... clearly, I should be the captain of the Philadelphia Flyers.

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Old
05-27-2011, 01:35 AM
  #83
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Beef Invictus
If we lose. In me wakes up the beast. Only this song soothing me.
Oysya you oysya, You do not worry,
I will not touch you, Do not worry.
Oysya you oysya, You do not worry,
I will not touch you, Do not worry.
Oĭsya , ty oĭsya , Ty menya ne boĭsya ,
YA tebya ne tronu , Ty ne bespokoĭsya .
Oĭsya , ty oĭsya , Ty menya ne boĭsya ,
YA tebya ne tronu , Ty ne bespokoĭsya .

Give it a listen Bobrowski

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05-27-2011, 01:42 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by observerspb View Post
Beef Invictus
If we lose. In me wakes up the beast. Only this song soothing me.
Oysya you oysya, You do not worry,
I will not touch you, Do not worry.
Oysya you oysya, You do not worry,
I will not touch you, Do not worry.
Oĭsya , ty oĭsya , Ty menya ne boĭsya ,
YA tebya ne tronu , Ty ne bespokoĭsya .
Oĭsya , ty oĭsya , Ty menya ne boĭsya ,
YA tebya ne tronu , Ty ne bespokoĭsya .

Give it a listen Bobrowski
What the crap is going on, Beef are you giving away National secrets again?


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Old
05-27-2011, 01:45 AM
  #85
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Old
05-27-2011, 01:49 AM
  #86
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decadentia
Quote:
What the crap is going on, Beef are you giving away National secrets again?
How dare you ****ing idiot. When it comes to pilots I really.

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05-27-2011, 02:01 AM
  #87
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decadentia

How dare you ****ing idiot. When it comes to pilots I really.


Danke.

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Old
05-27-2011, 02:10 AM
  #88
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decadentia
Top Gun beautiful film. but he is not real.
Tarasov said: You should be happy. Because you're playing hockey. And this is important. (but not in this clip)

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Old
05-27-2011, 02:17 AM
  #89
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decadentia

How dare you ****ing idiot. When it comes to pilots I really.



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Old
05-27-2011, 02:40 AM
  #90
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Someone from the Bruins side in the trade section said he would agree to this:

Hartnell + 3rd for McQuaid and Peverley.

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Old
05-27-2011, 03:02 AM
  #91
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Beef Invictus
If we lose. In me wakes up the beast. Only this song soothing me.
Oysya you oysya, You do not worry,
I will not touch you, Do not worry.
Oysya you oysya, You do not worry,
I will not touch you, Do not worry.
Oĭsya , ty oĭsya , Ty menya ne boĭsya ,
YA tebya ne tronu , Ty ne bespokoĭsya .
Oĭsya , ty oĭsya , Ty menya ne boĭsya ,
YA tebya ne tronu , Ty ne bespokoĭsya .

Give it a listen Bobrowski
..................................uh,............. .................................................. ......................................what?



I just dont know. Favore: if yuu must brake rools...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaa

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Old
05-27-2011, 08:51 AM
  #92
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Someone's owning someone in here.
I wish we could rep people on this site because Downie would be king!

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Old
05-27-2011, 09:41 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
How did Kane/Toews/Byfuglien do? He was charged with shutting them down and he did. It's too bad Michael Leighton has the five hole the size of Texas.



Players don't have to go out of their way to say that thoughts of Mike Richards stepping away from the captaincy are "the most ridiculous thing [they've] ever heard."




What did he do in the Boston series? Because by your logic, that's what matters in determining someone's leadership.



Exactly my point: He already does that. See the Giroux situation.



And what about Briere, the saint? He hasn't been streaky? Where was he from January to March and in the Boston series? Where's his consistent efforts on defense?

And Richards is unfit for the captaincy because of questionable pictures?





And Richards isn't fit for complaining about referees? Where's the complaints about Pronger calling a ref a ****ing woman back in November? Undermining the coach? He said that it's hard to get a consistent powerplay when there aren't consistent powerplay units. Is that throwing the coach under the bus? And Richards is being penalized for skipping optional skates? HE HAD PNEUMONIA AND A BROKEN WRIST! That's why "optional" skates are "optional". Players who need time off can take time off. Skipping practice? When did Richards skip practice? Irresponsible use of media? Like the thing that Anthony SanFilippo praised earlier this offseason?

Richards is not the problem with this team. I don't know how many ways I can say it.
You make some good points, but it adds up to A LOT of defensive statements and excuse making for the kid. I don't think it's likely that every single concern people have raised about Richards is simply invalid or excusable as you seem so apt to claim. You sound like a fanboy who believes your hero Captain Richards is simply infallible and beyond reproach. I'm obviously not going to convince you otherwise. Still, valid concerns remain. I'm fine with Richards being the captain of the team, and I don't see the Flyers making a change. But I am worried about the maturity level and commitment based on the examples I mentioned and that he won't complete his "on the job training" (Pronger's words) before the team's current window (i.e, Pronger/Timonen era) is closed. BTW Pronger's comment was something like "stepping away from the c for a year" was the most ridiculous thing, not necessarily the idea of changing the C itself.

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Old
05-27-2011, 10:09 AM
  #94
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..................................uh,............. .................................................. ......................................what?



I just dont know. Favore: if yuu must brake rools...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaa
Original Nyan Cat is still better!

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Old
05-27-2011, 10:29 AM
  #95
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[QUOTE=fauxflex;33265383]I hear this line used a lot, but I think it's a bit misleading. He had times where he wasn't captain, or where teams he's captained came up short. Let's take a closer look.

Quote:
-Richards was on Team Canada at the World Jrs., and lost in 2004. Richards was Captain in 2005, when Team Canada's stacked 2005 team won Gold (Carter was an all-star, as the year before, Richards, no so much)
The 2004 WJC team was almost as stacked as the 2005 team. Dan Paille captained the '04 squad, with Richards wearing an A. When it came time to choose the captain of the '05 team, they gave it to Richards, out of all of the future stars available to them. The majority of that '05 team were captains of their own CHL teams, and have gone on to wear a letter in the NHL. That's pretty telling, I'd say.

Quote:
-In Junior, he wasn't appointed Captain until after the loaded Kitchener Rangers won the CHL championship in 2003. Interestingly, after being appointed captain, his Ranger team did not win another championship those next two seasons.
You clearly have no concept how junior hockey works.

But for the record, Richards was his team's MVP the year they won the Memorial Cup. He was an alternate captain at age 17, while an older player wore the C. As a general rule, you see 19-20 year olds wearing the C in the CHL. Very few younger than 19 are considered.

No clue. But please carry on. It's quite refreshing to have to correct so many misconceptions and errors.

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05-27-2011, 10:35 AM
  #96
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[QUOTE=CharlieGirl;33269365]
Quote:
Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
I hear this line used a lot, but I think it's a bit misleading. He had times where he wasn't captain, or where teams he's captained came up short. Let's take a closer look.



The 2004 WJC team was almost as stacked as the 2005 team. Dan Paille captained the '04 squad, with Richards wearing an A. When it came time to choose the captain of the '05 team, they gave it to Richards, out of all of the future stars available to them. The majority of that '05 team were captains of their own CHL teams, and have gone on to wear a letter in the NHL. That's pretty telling, I'd say.



You clearly have no concept how junior hockey works.

But for the record, Richards was his team's MVP the year they won the Memorial Cup. He was an alternate captain at age 17, while an older player wore the C. As a general rule, you see 19-20 year olds wearing the C in the CHL. Very few younger than 19 are considered.

No clue. But please carry on. It's quite refreshing to have to correct so many misconceptions and errors.
I'm sorry, in my apparent continued ignorance, I don't understand what you're trying to tell me here. What did I have wrong?

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05-27-2011, 10:37 AM
  #97
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Why don't we try this from another angle. GhostofDownie, Charliegirle etc., can you please tell me in your view, what are Richards' shortcomings/deficiencies as Captain and/or player on the Flyers?

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Old
05-27-2011, 10:49 AM
  #98
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I'm sorry, in my apparent continued ignorance, I don't understand what you're trying to tell me here. What did I have wrong?
You're right - I didn't spell it out. Let me help you.

a) Richards was captain of what is arguably the best junior team ever assembled. Should we ignore this fact? Is it meaningless when speaking of his leadership?

b) Discounting Richards' leadership with the Kitchener Rangers because they didn't win another championship is a case of reading statistics without any other knowledge. If you had a clue, you'd know that junior hockey is, by nature, cyclical and very, very few teams are able to win consecutive championships in their own league. Fewer teams yet are able to win consecutive Memorial Cup championships.

I haven't even gotten into the crap with the Phantoms. You do realize that he and Carter were not allowed to join the Phantoms until after their junior careers had ended, right? And that those 20 games or so Richards played were the only games he ever played in the AHL? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in bringing this up. No **** he didn't wear the C. Why would he?

Clearly, you have an issue with Richards wearing the C. Whatever.

Let me ask though -- did you feel the same way last year as he led his team to the Cup finals? Or is this a recent thought that came to you?

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Old
05-27-2011, 11:00 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
Why don't we try this from another angle. GhostofDownie, Charliegirle etc., can you please tell me in your view, what are Richards' shortcomings/deficiencies as Captain and/or player on the Flyers?
As a Captain:
- He needs to improve his approach with the media. He's far, far better with the Canadian press than he is with some of the Philly media, but he has to learn to deal with them all.

We don't see what goes on in the room, so to comment on his dealings with his teammates and coaches is nothing more than conjecture (whether it be positive or negative). We do read comments from his teammates and coaches but, as you've pointed out, these may be 100% true or 100% false and putting on a good face for the press. We simply don't know.

As a Player:
- He needs to make the simple play more often. Whether it's because he doesn't have the confidence in his linemates and feels he has to do it all himself or what the reasoning is, he's had a tendency to be too cutesy. That's not his game and never has been. I'm hoping that he has consistent linemates that aren't the leftovers of the team this year (he's going to get stuck with Nodl, Versteeg, Carcillo, etc. so we need to temper our expectations on ES points) so that he can go back to playing his game.
- He needs to get back to having fun out there - he's at his best when he's having fun, and in full beast mode where nothing is going to stand in his way.

Your turn. Is there anything you like about Richards as C or as a player? Please share.

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05-27-2011, 11:35 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
You're right - I didn't spell it out. Let me help you.

a) Richards was captain of what is arguably the best junior team ever assembled. Should we ignore this fact? Is it meaningless when speaking of his leadership?

b) Discounting Richards' leadership with the Kitchener Rangers because they didn't win another championship is a case of reading statistics without any other knowledge. If you had a clue, you'd know that junior hockey is, by nature, cyclical and very, very few teams are able to win consecutive championships in their own league. Fewer teams yet are able to win consecutive Memorial Cup championships.

I haven't even gotten into the crap with the Phantoms. You do realize that he and Carter were not allowed to join the Phantoms until after their junior careers had ended, right? And that those 20 games or so Richards played were the only games he ever played in the AHL? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in bringing this up. No **** he didn't wear the C. Why would he?

Clearly, you have an issue with Richards wearing the C. Whatever.

Let me ask though -- did you feel the same way last year as he led his team to the Cup finals? Or is this a recent thought that came to you?
Ok, I see now, I wasn't necessarily wrong in what I posted, your comment was just discounting any point I might have been making. Just because it's rare that teams win consecutive championships in junior, doesn't change that Richards wasn't captain while his Jr team won it. So, the comment of I don't know how it works in Jr. was uncalled for. The context of my original point with this stuff was to refute the oft cited idea that Richards had been captain and won championships at every level. Well, he wasn't captain at the AHL level, or Olympic level and he wasn't captain when the Rangers won their championships. Splitting hairs maybe, but facts nonetheless.

Re; Your other point about last season. Well, I did have some concerns, even then, that Richards wasn't bringing those trademark strong efforts on a consistent basis. The team barely made it into the playoffs that year and Richards was as much responsible as anyone, if not more by virtue of him being the captain. Mike only put up 8 pts (-5) in the last 17 games of the season as the team faltered in the midst of a tight playoff race, losing games to weak teams like ATL (twice), OTT and NYI. I didn't like the statements he made about the weak efforts. He and the rest of the team did kick it up a notch or two when they got into the post season, I loved his effort at times like that signature shift on that shortie against Montreal, and his timely hit that put Krejci out of the series against Boston. I wasn't that impressed with him against Chicago, even in that defensive role that people cite to excuse his relativelack of production. So, yes, I and others did express concern. Having said that, the team almost got it done, so you can't really be too hard on them, but I can't say that concerns weren't there, concerns that still remain today.

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