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2011 Draft Talk V3.0

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Old
05-26-2011, 06:18 PM
  #26
Corncob
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
We have people here fuming that they picked Tinordi.
He's the wrong kind of tall!

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Old
05-26-2011, 06:40 PM
  #27
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Any interesting players to watch on Owen sound and Kootenay ?

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Old
05-26-2011, 06:41 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
Where is this myth that we draft small players coming from?

I don't want a team full of tiny guys either but the guy we draft this year won't make the team for another 3-4 years likely, unless we move up to the top 10.

Anways, if you look at mock drafts and rankings it looks like most guys 15-30 are north of 6'.
HEre's my latest mock draft, even with this pick you'll have people complaining that we need a more offensive type of player, there will always be people complaining about pick unless you have a top 2 pick.

1. EDM - Ryan Nugent Hopkins: Still seems like the likely destination, if they want someone ready for next year Larsson will be the pick in that case.

2. COL - Adam Larsson: Great all around defenseman that has a chance to dominate alongside EJ, Huberdeau might also be considered here at this point.

3. FLA - Jonathan Huberdeau: Florida needs explosive offensive players and Huberdeau is the man of the hour.

4. NJ - Gabriel Landeskog: As much as they need a PMD if they keep the pick I don't see them passing on Landeskog here, a perfect player for the Devils system.

5. NYI - Dougie Hamilton: Their young forwards are ready for prime time, they need more D, with the emergence of Hamonic and the selection of Hamilton this D line will look pretty good and the Islanders are finally looking good.

6. OTT - Ryan Strome: Couturier should be picked here, but for some reason I might have heard that OTT isn't high on SC, in that case they need offense bad and Strome should be picked here.

7. ATL - Sean Couturier: No one imagined he'd still be available, steal of the draft at 7.

8. CBJ - Ryan Murphy: The Jackets have been looking for a stud on the blue line since they came into the NHL and if all the right pieces fit they might have him.

9. BOS (via TOR) - Mika Zibanejad: Boston needs puck movers, Beaulieu is the best one at this point but I can't see them passing over the overall BPA at this point. MZ has lots of potential but is still raw.

10. MIN - Joel Armia: Ok I'll follow the trend and have Armia here, yes they love Finns and the guy is a top 10-15 pick so why not here.

11. COL (via STL) - Duncan Seimens: Why not? Perhaps the BPA at this point and they need solid strong players and he fits the profile and if he along with LArsson and Johnson all reach their potential...Oh boy...

12. CAR - Rocco Grimaldi: The first major surprise of the draft, look they are stacked at C with guys that won't leave anytime soon, they don't draft D's and they need offensive wingers why not go for the American kid that has elite talent?

13. CGY - Matt Puempel: Calgary needs scorers and they need them bad, this might be a bit of a reach but I'm sure some teams will have him around this pick on their lists.

14. DAL - Jamie Oleksiak: Big Hulking D-man with potential never last before getting drafted and Dallas has a major need in that departement, done deal.

15. NYR - Mark Scheifele: Scheifele has been rising and the Rangers scoop him up quickly, he needs to bulk up, has tons of potential.

16. BUF - Sven Baertschi: Another team looking for offensive players and they pick the best one available, he is years away but there's some Vanek in his game and he might appeal to them.

17. MTL - JT Miller: Known for their love of College players, Habs go for one with size, two way play and a potential Kesler type of player.

18. CHI - Oscar Klefbom: Can be considered a reach, but I doubt Klefbom goes beyond Detroit, has proven lots of things recently and will fit in in Chicago.

19. EDM (via LA) - Nathan Beaulieu: They need some D and they select the Best one available also the BPA as of now on most lists.

20. PHX - Tomas Jurco: His value has risen and he might go here, would be a great asset alongside Hanzal.

21. OTT (via NSH) - Nicklas Jensen : I can see him falling at the same time Ottawa needs Offense bad alongside size, and he is the perfect fit.

22. ANA - Mark Mcneill: He could go anywhere from 11-25, could also reach the 2nd round last I heard he is on a couple team's DND lists but big centers that can play rarely get to round 2.

23 .PIT - Alexander Khokhlachev: Lots of talent, lots of game, if he was a Canadian kid coulda been a top 15 pick, but alas the Russian factor strikes again, they hope Malkin will convince to come in a couple years from now.

24. DET - John Gibson: Goalies are a presing need here, unless they're planning to sign one on the market I don't see them passing on Gibson here.

25. TOR - Brandon Saad: He is a faller on my list but Burke will drool over his size and potential, lacks a bit of heart though.

26. WSH - Vladislav Namestnikov: A young 2 way player that contributes in the 2 ends effectively, would be a great pick here.

27. TB - Jonas Brodin: Their D is still weak and they go for a sure thing, he won't be a 1 or 2 but he will be a solid Dman for years to come, having Hedman will only make the transition smoother.

28. TOR (via BOS) - Joe Morrow: A good 2 way d-man with tons of potential, might not be available here but Leafs scoop him quickly.

29. SJ - Ty Rattie: SJ won't pass him up here and hope that a couple years from now he pulls off a Setoguchi or Couture type of rookie season.

30. VAN - Stefan Noesen: A reach, yes but I can see Vancouver loving his game and picking him up at 30.

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Old
05-26-2011, 06:53 PM
  #29
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Miller?!? I'd rather Jurco or Beaulieu in your scenario.

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Old
05-26-2011, 06:58 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Zeroknowledge View Post
17. MTL - JT Miller: Known for their love of College players, Habs go for one with size, two way play and a potential Kesler type of player.
IMO we have enough two-way player type guys we've drafted. I'm not gonna pretend I know enough about undrafted prospects but I'd sacrifice some defensive awareness for a guy with high potential to score.

Learning the defensive side of the game is much easier than learning to be a first line scorer.

I mean look at the "risk" they took with Subban. Highly gifted offensive guy who most people said could never adjust enough defensively at the higher levels and he was a shut down Dman for us in the playoffs in his rookie season.

Unfortunately it's tough to guess who has the same level of determination and willingness to learn as P.K.

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Old
05-26-2011, 07:04 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
IMO we have enough two-way player type guys we've drafted. I'm not gonna pretend I know enough about undrafted prospects but I'd sacrifice some defensive awareness for a guy with high potential to score.

Learning the defensive side of the game is much easier than learning to be a first line scorer.

I mean look at the "risk" they took with Subban. Highly gifted offensive guy who most people said could never adjust enough defensively at the higher levels and he was a shut down Dman for us in the playoffs in his rookie season.

Unfortunately it's tough to guess who has the same level of determination and willingness to learn as P.K.
PK had a lot of drive and cockiness. Maybe they should look for more like him. Look at a lot of those players like Kesler, Avery, Ott they all play above their skills by giving everything they have. Just make sure you pick the ones like Kesler and Subban that have the top end talent. Mike Richards is really cocky as well.

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Old
05-26-2011, 07:13 PM
  #32
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I wouldn't mind Miller ! But if Beaulieu is still available, i'd surely think twice about picking Beaulieu instead....Still Miller is a pretty good pick at 17 imo!

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Old
05-26-2011, 07:19 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Zeroknowledge View Post
HEre's my latest mock draft, even with this pick you'll have people complaining that we need a more offensive type of player, there will always be people complaining about pick unless you have a top 2 pick.
Good job man. Good mock draft.
Except for DET drafting Gibson. I can't see them passing on Brodin! I'd be shocked.
And all the guys I REALLY love are picked before #17 so in that case, I would definitely try to trade down to get a 2nd round pick.

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Old
05-26-2011, 07:38 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Whizniewski View Post
I agree. However, if you look at our nucleus, Plekanec, Cammy, Gomez, Gionta, Kostitsyn, Eller, Pacioretty, Markov, Wiz, Subban, Leblanc, Gorges, Emelin, Desharnais.

Of those players, 5/15 are Canadian, 3/15 are from the "English" part of Canada which makes up the most significant portion of the NHL. Traditionally, teams with the largest contingent of anglo-Canadian tend to do well in the playoffs. This is not meant to be racist, or anti European or anti-French. I love French players and European players. I just think anglo-Canada is underrepresented big time on the Habs and there could be a correllation between that and our lack of toughness.
Did you know there is a correlation between ice cream sales in a month and drowning cases in the same month. Eating ice cream must cause people to drown!!!!
Correlations mean nothing because they do not take into account various extraneous variables. It sounds cool and all but it is meaningless, unless you actually take the time to calculate a proper statistic on it and find it to be statistically significant (preferably on the .01 level, but I suppose the .05 level is also acceptable in this case), then and only then, will it be considered relevant in a discussion. Until then, you are just being prejudice since you are putting a group of people coming from a similar background above the others without any evidence.

Things you are not considering in your analyses. Over-representation of Anglo-Canadians in the NHL since players of similar, and sometimes superior, talent level in europe prefer to stay in their homeland and make more money. Would you rather make potentially more money and play in front of friends and family living in an area that speaks your native language, or would you rather go overseas and speak a language that is most likely not your first and make less money? Pretty sure the answer is obvious.

If you want to target the nationality demographic of our team as the source of the problem go ahead. In the meantime, I am going to concern myself with the talent and compete level of my players rather then where they were born and their heritage.
(wasn't meant to be an insulting post, sorry if it comes across as such, I am simply tired of hearing about this nonsense like Canadians are so superior. Wonder who won the world juniors and the u-18 this year, oops.....)

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Old
05-26-2011, 07:44 PM
  #35
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I wouldn't mind Miller ! But if Beaulieu is still available, i'd surely think twice about picking Beaulieu instead....Still Miller is a pretty good pick at 17 imo!
Very good pick, number two behind Grimaldi on my list.

11. Jonathan Miller, USA U18 (USHL): Miller might be considered a sleeper to some, but not to National Team Development Program coach Ron Rolston. With exceptional speed, playmaking ability and creativity, Miller played a pretty significant role in his first full season with the Under-18 National Team this season, finishing third on the club with 50 points while registering a team-leading 35 assists in 56 games.

In 16 international games, he produced 7 goals, including 2 game-winners, and 22 points.

"He hit everything in sight when I watched him play," Barzee said.

The University of North Dakota-bound Miller was named one of Team USA's top three players at the Under-18 World Championship in Germany last month after helping lead the team to its third consecutive gold medal. He finished the tournament with 4 goals, 13 points and a plus-8 rating.

"I like how he uses his size and strength," Central Scouting's David Gregory told NHL.com. "He is a power forward that can dominate on the boards and possesses a great shot. He moves very well, has the ability to impose his will on the game. He just needs to improve his consistency, especially using his strength, game in and game out. He'll be a better overall player when his puck-handling and confidence with the puck improves.

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05-26-2011, 07:52 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
PK had a lot of drive and cockiness. Maybe they should look for more like him. Look at a lot of those players like Kesler, Avery, Ott they all play above their skills by giving everything they have. Just make sure you pick the ones like Kesler and Subban that have the top end talent. Mike Richards is really cocky as well.
The emphasis on picking kids with strong character is something that has become obvious under Timmins/Gainey and the main reason for taking Grimaldi, aside from the skill, is his solid character and determination.

"...plays a similar style to that of Chicago Blackhawks sniper Patrick Kane. Though he is truly developing into his own type of player on and off the ice. How many other hockey players sport a 4.0 GPA, have received the Presidentís Certificate for Educational Excellence in academics, leadership, and character, give up their spare time to help those less fortunate and would like to become a Pastor of a church someday. Yes, Rocco Grimaldi is a player determined to make a difference, whether or not itís helping his team win, or in every day life."

http://dansallows.com/q-and-a-with-t...occo-grimaldi/

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Old
05-26-2011, 08:02 PM
  #37
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Very good pick, number two behind Grimaldi on my list.

11. Jonathan Miller, USA U18 (USHL): Miller might be considered a sleeper to some, but not to National Team Development Program coach Ron Rolston. With exceptional speed, playmaking ability and creativity, Miller played a pretty significant role in his first full season with the Under-18 National Team this season, finishing third on the club with 50 points while registering a team-leading 35 assists in 56 games.

In 16 international games, he produced 7 goals, including 2 game-winners, and 22 points.

"He hit everything in sight when I watched him play," Barzee said.

The University of North Dakota-bound Miller was named one of Team USA's top three players at the Under-18 World Championship in Germany last month after helping lead the team to its third consecutive gold medal. He finished the tournament with 4 goals, 13 points and a plus-8 rating.

"I like how he uses his size and strength," Central Scouting's David Gregory told NHL.com. "He is a power forward that can dominate on the boards and possesses a great shot. He moves very well, has the ability to impose his will on the game. He just needs to improve his consistency, especially using his strength, game in and game out. He'll be a better overall player when his puck-handling and confidence with the puck improves.
Wouldn't be shocked to see him go before our pick to be honest.

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Old
05-26-2011, 08:19 PM
  #38
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How do you explain Pouliot spending half the season on his butt?
1. Balance (not convinced he can actually use both edges of both skates as well as he should)
2. Body positioning (how he goes into hits, tries to get around hits, reaches for pucks/players, and bends over while protecting the puck)
.
.
.
3. Strength

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Old
05-26-2011, 08:29 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Kyle West View Post
Very good pick, number two behind Grimaldi on my list.

11. Jonathan Miller, USA U18 (USHL): Miller might be considered a sleeper to some, but not to National Team Development Program coach Ron Rolston. With exceptional speed, playmaking ability and creativity, Miller played a pretty significant role in his first full season with the Under-18 National Team this season, finishing third on the club with 50 points while registering a team-leading 35 assists in 56 games.

In 16 international games, he produced 7 goals, including 2 game-winners, and 22 points.

"He hit everything in sight when I watched him play," Barzee said.

The University of North Dakota-bound Miller was named one of Team USA's top three players at the Under-18 World Championship in Germany last month after helping lead the team to its third consecutive gold medal. He finished the tournament with 4 goals, 13 points and a plus-8 rating.

"I like how he uses his size and strength," Central Scouting's David Gregory told NHL.com. "He is a power forward that can dominate on the boards and possesses a great shot. He moves very well, has the ability to impose his will on the game. He just needs to improve his consistency, especially using his strength, game in and game out. He'll be a better overall player when his puck-handling and confidence with the puck improves.
Miller is my first choice at 17th ^^

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Old
05-26-2011, 08:52 PM
  #40
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For me, at least having NHL speed is a minimum requirement in taking a guy in the
1st or 2nd round for that matter. Now I know some kids that are shaky skaters will make it to the NHL and of those some will be good players and there may be a star in there as well. But a kid with slow foot speed has the odds really stacked against him and I dont see it being worth the risk . The Habs went a few years when every other quality mattered , toughness, size,Speed scoring touch , work ethic, leadership etc, but one , skating ability. We drafted guys like Terry Ryan, Jason Ward, Matt Higgins, Eric Chouinard and they all had skating issues. When they were struggling to make it the lack of foot speed was cited and the team would say they were helping the player and the speed would come. Not so much. Speed alone wont get a kid to the NHL, but without at least NHL speed, its likely a wasted pick. I mean , the game is played on ice right, you need to be able to skate.

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Old
05-26-2011, 09:00 PM
  #41
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12. CAR - Rocco Grimaldi: The first major surprise of the draft, look they are stacked at C with guys that won't leave anytime soon, they don't draft D's and they need offensive wingers why not go for the American kid that has elite talent?
That wouldn't surprise me at all. They weren't scared of drafting Jeff Skinner in the top 10 last year although many were turned off by his size/skating. Would be a good value pick at #12.

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05-26-2011, 09:11 PM
  #42
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If we don't draft a player above 6 foot I will be mad. There is a lot of size in this draft, guys like Mark McNeil and Joel Armia might not be available when we're on the clock but there are still guys like Boone Jenner, Niklas Jensen, Mark Scheifele, Tyler Biggs, Jonathan Miller, Brandon Saad and Rocco Grimaldi (just kidding). Seriously though....we need size on this club so we should continue to draft players in the mold.
I too am sick to my stomach watching teams like Boston and Philly taking liberties with our players but, that's the ref's job.If I were to go the route you're suggesting Mark McNeill would be the 1st round choice,Justin Sefton the 3rd round choice and Kyle Kessy would be the 4th round choice.These players may be available at the Habs picks and can play in the NHL with seasoning in the AHL for three years.By that time the players with size already drafted will be playing for the Habs,and we'll be short on talent.I guess in June better minds than mine will make the Habs choices and then we will know how they have decided is best.

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05-26-2011, 09:39 PM
  #43
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I just hope they find a thirty plus goal scorer. Size doesn't matter just bury the puck in the net on a consistent basis.

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05-26-2011, 10:11 PM
  #44
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If you have a lot of talented players, you can trade some of them for less-talented bigger players. You can rarely do the opposite though. That's why you go BPA. We don't know what will be the organization's needs in 4-5 years.

Of course the ideal is to have big talented players, but it's just so easy to scroll down ISS or CS rankings, look at big guys in the 1st round and say: I want this guy cause he's big and highly ranked and he could become the next (insert big player with skill) and we need size.

Height is a bit overrated sometimes. There are physical players like Brad Marchand (5'9) and Cal Clutterbuck (listed as 5'10 or 5'11) who are under 6 foot tall. I wouldn't mind them on my team. Many elite players in the league are under 6 foot tall and I wouldn't mind having them with the habs, scoring tons of goals against the Big Bad Bruins or the Broad Street Bullies.

There are sometimes skilled players that are overlooked and available later in the 1st round partly because of their lack of size (and/or the speed to compensate). It's always sad when we miss the boat.

The funny thing though, 2 of my favorite players in the draft are Grimaldi and Oleksiak. One is way too small and the other way too big!

I don't mind Jensen, Miller or McNeill, but they just don't seem to have high ceilings (other than height!) in my mind. 2nd liners at the very best but more likely 3rd liners. That's just my feeling... I hope I'm wrong though.

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05-26-2011, 10:47 PM
  #45
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Boone Jenner would be an awesome pick imo. And we know that TT has been watching oshawa a lot with the signing of Berger. Hes been compared to Mike Richards. Another hard working guy with a big motor and great leadership abilities. I know, we need some more flash and goal scoring up front, but I'll take a Richards clone anyday.

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05-26-2011, 10:55 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
Boone Jenner would be an awesome pick imo. And we know that TT has been watching oshawa a lot with the signing of Berger. Hes been compared to Mike Richards. Another hard working guy with a big motor and great leadership abilities. I know, we need some more flash and goal scoring up front, but I'll take a Richards clone anyday.
Boone Jenner's is much more likely to be a third line shutdown center that can play the PK, I'd say his upside is a 30-40 point player, and that is his upside...yes. He's more of a safe pick that should go early 2nd round. His skating is still choppy and that reminds me of Chipchura.

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05-26-2011, 11:07 PM
  #47
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Did you know there is a correlation between ice cream sales in a month and drowning cases in the same month. Eating ice cream must cause people to drown!!!!
Correlations mean nothing because they do not take into account various extraneous variables. It sounds cool and all but it is meaningless, unless you actually take the time to calculate a proper statistic on it and find it to be statistically significant (preferably on the .01 level, but I suppose the .05 level is also acceptable in this case), then and only then, will it be considered relevant in a discussion. Until then, you are just being prejudice since you are putting a group of people coming from a similar background above the others without any evidence.

Things you are not considering in your analyses. Over-representation of Anglo-Canadians in the NHL since players of similar, and sometimes superior, talent level in europe prefer to stay in their homeland and make more money. Would you rather make potentially more money and play in front of friends and family living in an area that speaks your native language, or would you rather go overseas and speak a language that is most likely not your first and make less money? Pretty sure the answer is obvious.

If you want to target the nationality demographic of our team as the source of the problem go ahead. In the meantime, I am going to concern myself with the talent and compete level of my players rather then where they were born and their heritage.
(wasn't meant to be an insulting post, sorry if it comes across as such, I am simply tired of hearing about this nonsense like Canadians are so superior. Wonder who won the world juniors and the u-18 this year, oops.....)
Fair argument. To defend my post, I said there "could be" a correllation. I don't know if there is or not. I'm just saying I feel like Anglo-Canada is seriouslly under-represented on our team. Stereotypically, Anglo-Canadians are known for their grit and abrasiveness. (Cases can be made where that isn't true, obviously) I'm more of a fan of the tough, physical style of play than the European speed & possession game. My post was saying I would prefer this to happen, but as Detroit has shown, you do not need to have a particular demographic in order to win.

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05-26-2011, 11:27 PM
  #48
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Fair argument. To defend my post, I said there "could be" a correllation. I don't know if there is or not. I'm just saying I feel like Anglo-Canada is seriouslly under-represented on our team. Stereotypically, Anglo-Canadians are known for their grit and abrasiveness. (Cases can be made where that isn't true, obviously) I'm more of a fan of the tough, physical style of play than the European speed & possession game. My post was saying I would prefer this to happen, but as Detroit has shown, you do not need to have a particular demographic in order to win.
Whether or not there is a correlation is irrelevant, I will leave it at that. It's ok to desire more toughness on the team. My problem is your basis on stereotypes, focusing on getting more Anglo Canadians. I do not have a problem with someone saying we need more physical players. But leave ethnicity out of it. For arguments sake, the swedes have shown an increase in toughness in the past years, as demonstrated in the junior tourneys. USA also has on display a ton of physical players. But to target one particular group is something I will have a problem with.

Maybe I am crazy, but my draft philosophy is to cast as big of a net as possible, look everywhere, do not discount any player due to nationality/ethnicity/size. Judge them on their play. Judge them on their performance. Judge them on how they comport themselves. But do not judge them on something they cannot control and is simply left to fate.

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05-26-2011, 11:54 PM
  #49
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Boone Jenner would be an awesome pick imo. And we know that TT has been watching oshawa a lot with the signing of Berger. Hes been compared to Mike Richards. Another hard working guy with a big motor and great leadership abilities. I know, we need some more flash and goal scoring up front, but I'll take a Richards clone anyday.
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Boone Jenner's is much more likely to be a third line shutdown center that can play the PK, I'd say his upside is a 30-40 point player, and that is his upside...yes. He's more of a safe pick that should go early 2nd round. His skating is still choppy and that reminds me of Chipchura.
Jenner's numbers are much better than Chipchura's, but much worse than Richards' at the same age.

I put Jenner in the same range as Scheifele, McNeill, Grimaldi, Miller, Phillips and Armia. I'd be excited to add any of those forwards to the organization. An advantage to drafting Jenner is his age. As one of the youngest players eligible for the draft, he has more potential to improve on his weaknesses.

The fact that Jenner has put up so many points, both in the playoffs and in the regular season, despite not having a reputation for being ultra skilled, leads me to believe that he has good hockey instincts and a willingness to use his size to pick up "ugly" points. I don't think that's a skill so easily learned.

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05-27-2011, 09:50 AM
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S Bah
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Less than a month until the Entry Draft 2011 and I'm still on the Khokhlachev bandwagon for our 1st round pick #17 overall.Unless I miss my guess Alex will be available and would be ready to play for the Habs about the same time Gomez contract is over.Khokhlachev with Avtsin and Pacioretty could be an explosive 1st line combination featuring size,speed,goalscoring wingers and a great center to distribute the puck.Tinordi and Subban backing them up on defence,would give opposition fits;Subban having the ability to join the attack at anytime and Tinordi ever present to stop the transition game or defend his teammates.Playing Nostradamus isn't easy but, these guys have game.Gauthier has a master plan and I see our team being elite for a long long time with Pierre as GM.

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