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2011 Draft Talk V3.0

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Old
05-27-2011, 11:03 AM
  #51
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Less than a month until the Entry Draft 2011 and I'm still on the Khokhlachev bandwagon for our 1st round pick #17 overall.Unless I miss my guess Alex will be available and would be ready to play for the Habs about the same time Gomez contract is over.Khokhlachev with Avtsin and Pacioretty could be an explosive 1st line combination featuring size,speed,goalscoring wingers and a great center to distribute the puck.Tinordi and Subban backing them up on defence,would give opposition fits;Subban having the ability to join the attack at anytime and Tinordi ever present to stop the transition game or defend his teammates.Playing Nostradamus isn't easy but, these guys have game.Gauthier has a master plan and I see our team being elite for a long long time with Pierre as GM.
I like Khokhlachev too but at this point would rather one of the Marks (Schiefele or McNeil).

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05-27-2011, 11:12 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
Less than a month until the Entry Draft 2011 and I'm still on the Khokhlachev bandwagon for our 1st round pick #17 overall.Unless I miss my guess Alex will be available and would be ready to play for the Habs about the same time Gomez contract is over.Khokhlachev with Avtsin and Pacioretty could be an explosive 1st line combination featuring size,speed,goalscoring wingers and a great center to distribute the puck.Tinordi and Subban backing them up on defence,would give opposition fits;Subban having the ability to join the attack at anytime and Tinordi ever present to stop the transition game or defend his teammates.Playing Nostradamus isn't easy but, these guys have game.Gauthier has a master plan and I see our team being elite for a long long time with Pierre as GM.
Those are two pretty big question marks to be banking on for a future first line. And your projections are generous, at best. Gomez has four years left on his deal, and in that time you have Khoklachev developping into a #1 centre? To compare, Andrei Kostitsyn was a better prospect, was drafted eight years ago, and still hasn't become a bonafide first line winger.

I think people need to lower their expectations in terms of what picking 17th overall will actually get us.

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05-27-2011, 11:29 AM
  #53
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Maybe just maybe Brandon Saad could be our guy at 17. Was touted as a top5/10 pick last summer and close to be nhl ready after the nhl camp last august in Toronto. Had an average year in Saginaw but heard it was not ideal situation for him in Saginaw this season and also played most of the year from what i heard. Bottom line he's a 6"2 forward who move well enough and has some upside offensively. We also lack some depth on LW after MaxPac. Plus he's American so Timmins must be a fan

http://nhldraftvideo.blogspot.com/20...mpilation.html

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05-27-2011, 12:05 PM
  #54
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Those are two pretty big question marks to be banking on for a future first line. And your projections are generous, at best. Gomez has four years left on his deal, and in that time you have Khoklachev developping into a #1 centre? To compare, Andrei Kostitsyn was a better prospect, was drafted eight years ago, and still hasn't become a bonafide first line winger.

I think people need to lower their expectations in terms of what picking 17th overall will actually get us.
When I project those thoughts it's top end possibilites nobody can say for sure except maybe Gretzky or Lemieux.The line with Pacioretty already showing his potential in the NHL,Avtsin's skill level and expectations are more in line for 1st line potential as I feel Khokhlachevs will be,not as a 2nd line center.His skill level is what I base my choice on with his abilities playing in the OHL with Windsor Spitfires one of their elite teams.He is very hard to knock off his feet at his size and an extremely hard worker.

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05-27-2011, 01:33 PM
  #55
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Montréal has poor winger depth imo. We have a ton of centres, but no big names aside from Leblanc.

Should the habs try to address the wing depth, or just take the BPA regardless of what position they play ?

The habs will probably draft a goalie this year.

There's a collection of big stay-at-home dman around the 3rd-5th round (I drafted one of them, Neal Goff) that Montréal could get to help their d out in the later rounds and focus on a forward in the first round.

If Joel Armia, Mika Zibanejad or for some reason Ryan Strome fall, I hope we trade up. However, all of them should go between 8-13.

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05-27-2011, 01:49 PM
  #56
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THN mock draft has us taking Mark McNeill.

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05-27-2011, 01:51 PM
  #57
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Montréal has poor winger depth imo. We have a ton of centres, but no big names aside from Leblanc.

Should the habs try to address the wing depth, or just take the BPA regardless of what position they play ?
The way I see it, centres can almost always be converted to wingers...it's much tougher to switch a winger to a centre. For that reason I don't think it's really possible for a team to have too much centre depth.

The only time I would really keep a guy at centre and not change him to the wing is if he's a playmaker, like Eller.

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05-27-2011, 01:54 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by nhldraftvideo View Post
Maybe just maybe Brandon Saad could be our guy at 17. Was touted as a top5/10 pick last summer and close to be nhl ready after the nhl camp last august in Toronto. Had an average year in Saginaw but heard it was not ideal situation for him in Saginaw this season and also played most of the year from what i heard. Bottom line he's a 6"2 forward who move well enough and has some upside offensively. We also lack some depth on LW after MaxPac. Plus he's American so Timmins must be a fan

http://nhldraftvideo.blogspot.com/20...mpilation.html
He's already north of 200 pounds as well. His shot doesn't look terribly impressive but there were a couple good wristers in there and he seems to know where to go for scoring opportunities judging from the video.

He seems to have good breakaway speed as well. Any comments on his physical play?

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05-27-2011, 02:06 PM
  #59
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He's already north of 200 pounds as well. His shot doesn't look terribly impressive but there were a couple good wristers in there and he seems to know where to go for scoring opportunities judging from the video.

He seems to have good breakaway speed as well. Any comments on his physical play?
Pretty much non-existant, which is a big knock on him. Not gritty/competitive enough.

Personally I think 17 is too high for Saad. There's better options no matter who's off the board at that point IMO.

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05-27-2011, 02:28 PM
  #60
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THN mock draft has us taking Mark McNeill.
I would be happy with that...THN compares him to Bobby Ryan.

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Old
05-27-2011, 03:54 PM
  #61
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My "realistic" short list for habs.
1. Rocco Grimaldi
2. Nicklas Jensen
3. JT. Miller
4. Alexander Khoklachev
5. Dmitri Jaskin

My preference would be to trade down in this particular draft. Trading up will be very expensive, and there is value in the second round so if we move our pick I am hoping we move back and recuperate a 2nd.

I would be pretty sad if we selected Saad at 17, and furious if we take Biggs. I like Mark Mcneill, imo, he reminds a lot of Brendan Morrow, hard working, gritty, smart, not very creative offensively, great for centering the 2nd or 3rd line.

Our prospect pool has a lot of depth in terms of hard working players. Imo we need to address our lack of impact players. We do not really have too many dynamic offensive prospects. Gallagher is scoring a ton of pts, but I would not go as far as other who compare him to St-Louis (which is a huge insult to St-Louis in my book). Gallagher lacks the foot speed and is nowhere near as creative with the puck as Marty.
Leblanc to me is a complimentary player. He performs best when playing with more dynamic players. He is smart and will get into proper positions, he will fight for the puck, etc. What he is not, is a dynamic/creative player.
Pacioretty has the makings to be an excellent player, but even there that creativity is lacking.
Lars Eller is pretty creative, and while I have faith in him, he remains a work in progress.
Desharnais is also very creative, but he lacks the speed needed for a small player to excel in the nhl.
We are also talking about 3-5 years down the road too. Some of our small guys will be gone by then. Plekanec will be in his 30's. Who will be our offensive spark plug then?
One could argue that we can address this in a future draft. But why wait? Why not take this type of player now, when the opportunity is there? Talent does not grow on trees. Nobody knows the next time we will have the opportunity to draft a player with the talent level of Grimaldi. I say take the chance on talent and grab the bigger depth players in the later rounds. Tyler Biggs is not the only guy with "potential" to be the next Lucic, Kale Kessy and David Broll are two players with similar qualities that can be had in the later rounds. A player with grimaldi's package(skill, speed, tenacity, hockey sense) will not be found later in the draft. I think I should end it there, before I lose myself further in a rant.

In summary, Grimaldi is my guy

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05-27-2011, 04:06 PM
  #62
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If we were willing to look at "smaller" players in the interests of finding the most offensive skill, I would go Khoklachev before Grimaldi, but that's probably just me. Jensen and Miller climb above both, imo, if size and strength projections enter the picture at all. I don't quite know exactly where to put Jaskin at this point, but he's an intriguing prospect to be sure. 1st overall pick by the KHL, which has seen more of him than anyone else... that can't be discounted at all.

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05-27-2011, 04:22 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
If we were willing to look at "smaller" players in the interests of finding the most offensive skill, I would go Khoklachev before Grimaldi, but that's probably just me. Jensen and Miller climb above both, imo, if size and strength projections enter the picture at all. I don't quite know exactly where to put Jaskin at this point, but he's an intriguing prospect to be sure. 1st overall pick by the KHL, which has seen more of him than anyone else... that can't be discounted at all.
I like Jaskin quite a bit, but I will always be hesitant when drafting someone with skating issues. But boy is he hard to knock off the puck. If he improves his skating he will be a huge steal for whoever takes him, but again thats a big "if".

Khoklachev would also be a good choice, with the benefit of having another russian along with Avtsin, also helps that both were once known as the four faces of the MHL. I like him as well, but Grimaldi is my personal preference.

I like jensen a bit more then Miller, but that is more of a skill over physicality preference. They are getting pretty even on my list the more I debate it.

Trading down is my preference, since I like quite a few players, but if we stay, Grimaldi is my fave.

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05-27-2011, 04:26 PM
  #64
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How fast is Grimaldi? If he has Gionta-St Louis speed then he would be fine 1st rounder.

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05-27-2011, 04:34 PM
  #65
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How fast is Grimaldi? If he has Gionta-St Louis speed then he would be fine 1st rounder.
He has elite level speed. If he didn't, I would not have even brought up his name because of his size.
Size is the only concern with Grimaldi. If it wasn't a concern we would not be talking about him because he would be a top 5 pick.

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05-27-2011, 05:16 PM
  #66
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The way I see it, centres can almost always be converted to wingers...it's much tougher to switch a winger to a centre. For that reason I don't think it's really possible for a team to have too much centre depth.

The only time I would really keep a guy at centre and not change him to the wing is if he's a playmaker, like Eller.
Same here. Maybe it's me, but in Leblanc I see a lesser Ales Hemsky.

Even then, I guess our winger situation gets better with Gallagher, Bournival, Avitsin, Leblanc and Pacioretty (has played over 100 games, but still young)

Personally, the habs motto of defense first and lacking size/ toughness leads to McNeill being the pick for the habs. Anyone know how is speed is ?

I think Cammalleri is a rare in expectiong to being small and not that fast. He still has good wheels, but someone that size should be faster. Grimaldi, imo is a steal as a late first/ early 2nd. If we drafted, say McNeill, Jensen, someone with size, I'd want Grimaldi with our other pick.

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05-27-2011, 06:57 PM
  #67
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If i were in charge, I would have two priorities in mind for the first pick.

Big-bodied winger that can skate and handle physical play

OR

big-bodied D-man with the same skillset

I'm not a big fan of BPA drafting. Rocco Grimaldi might be great and all, but where exactly is he going to fit down the road? And we're assuming that our small forwards will not re-sign in 3-4 years. Who knows, maybe Gionta and Cammy will come back then, making the drafting of another pint-sized forward even more of a mistake.

As much as I'd agree that you can't have enough skilled players, you need to strike a balance at some point. We literally only have one sure bet power forward type player in our organization, Max Pacioretty. I like Kostitsyn, Avtsin, Quailer and Walsh, but we clearly need more depth at that position. Someone mentioned before that it's okay to draft lots of centers because they're more adaptable than wingers, which is true, but i'd argue that no center that we've drafted lately can do what Pacioretty can do, that you need the frame and the winger mentality to score the way he scores.

Here's my shortlist, after watching some videos of potential first round draftees:

McNeill, Mark - Forward -- Prince Albert

Oleksiak, Jamieson - Defensman -- Northeastern

Saad, Brandon - Winger - Sarnia

Jurco, Tomas - Winger - St. John's

Jensen, Nicklas - Winger - Oshawa

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05-27-2011, 07:28 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
If i were in charge, I would have two priorities in mind for the first pick.

Big-bodied winger that can skate and handle physical play

OR

big-bodied D-man with the same skillset

I'm not a big fan of BPA drafting. Rocco Grimaldi might be great and all, but where exactly is he going to fit down the road? And we're assuming that our small forwards will not re-sign in 3-4 years. Who knows, maybe Gionta and Cammy will come back then, making the drafting of another pint-sized forward even more of a mistake.

As much as I'd agree that you can't have enough skilled players, you need to strike a balance at some point. We literally only have one sure bet power forward type player in our organization, Max Pacioretty. I like Kostitsyn, Avtsin, Quailer and Walsh, but we clearly need more depth at that position. Someone mentioned before that it's okay to draft lots of centers because they're more adaptable than wingers, which is true, but i'd argue that no center that we've drafted lately can do what Pacioretty can do, that you need the frame and the winger mentality to score the way he scores.

Here's my shortlist, after watching some videos of potential first round draftees:

McNeill, Mark - Forward -- Prince Albert

Oleksiak, Jamieson - Defensman -- Northeastern

Saad, Brandon - Winger - Sarnia

Jurco, Tomas - Winger - St. John's

Jensen, Nicklas - Winger - Oshawa
If we draft Grimaldi and he turns out great, we could keep gionta and trade Grimaldi for a similar (bigger) players if it is necessary. We don't know what will happen four years, and for all we know avtsin/leblanc/paccioretty could all be part of the core and make size less of an issue.

Secondly, we need both players that can score like Max and players who can score like Cammalleri. Thats one of the reasons why the pac/gom/gio line was successful, they didn't have to go to the net to score but they could and often. Max made room for both Gomez and Gionta to play, despite size.

Personally I want Grimaldi or Jensen

Jensen would fit the size category, despite not using it too often, he can use it to create space.

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05-27-2011, 07:32 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
If i were in charge, I would have two priorities in mind for the first pick.

Big-bodied winger that can skate and handle physical play

OR

big-bodied D-man with the same skillset

I'm not a big fan of BPA drafting. Rocco Grimaldi might be great and all, but where exactly is he going to fit down the road? And we're assuming that our small forwards will not re-sign in 3-4 years. Who knows, maybe Gionta and Cammy will come back then, making the drafting of another pint-sized forward even more of a mistake.

As much as I'd agree that you can't have enough skilled players, you need to strike a balance at some point. We literally only have one sure bet power forward type player in our organization, Max Pacioretty. I like Kostitsyn, Avtsin, Quailer and Walsh, but we clearly need more depth at that position. Someone mentioned before that it's okay to draft lots of centers because they're more adaptable than wingers, which is true, but i'd argue that no center that we've drafted lately can do what Pacioretty can do, that you need the frame and the winger mentality to score the way he scores.

Here's my shortlist, after watching some videos of potential first round draftees:

McNeill, Mark - Forward -- Prince Albert

Oleksiak, Jamieson - Defensman -- Northeastern

Saad, Brandon - Winger - Sarnia

Jurco, Tomas - Winger - St. John's

Jensen, Nicklas - Winger - Oshawa
I believe teams always go for a bit of both, yes they have lists but I believe sometimes those lists can have groups of players all ranked the same example this year they might have per example, Miller, Scheifele, Beaulieu and Bartschi all ranked as B, now if they're all available they will select one of them assuming no B+ players are still available.

So they'd have 4 BPA's at this point and this is where a team goes for need, in the Habs case a big center so they'd go for Scheifele or Miller here.

Now assume Beaulieu is ranked B+ and is available, a team with such a system will draft him even if they are stacked on D.

But going BPA is essential, these picks are assets too, going by need shouldn't make you take risky compromises.

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05-27-2011, 07:33 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
If i were in charge, I would have two priorities in mind for the first pick.

Big-bodied winger that can skate and handle physical play

OR

big-bodied D-man with the same skillset

I'm not a big fan of BPA drafting. Rocco Grimaldi might be great and all, but where exactly is he going to fit down the road? And we're assuming that our small forwards will not re-sign in 3-4 years. Who knows, maybe Gionta and Cammy will come back then, making the drafting of another pint-sized forward even more of a mistake.

As much as I'd agree that you can't have enough skilled players, you need to strike a balance at some point. We literally only have one sure bet power forward type player in our organization, Max Pacioretty. I like Kostitsyn, Avtsin, Quailer and Walsh, but we clearly need more depth at that position. Someone mentioned before that it's okay to draft lots of centers because they're more adaptable than wingers, which is true, but i'd argue that no center that we've drafted lately can do what Pacioretty can do, that you need the frame and the winger mentality to score the way he scores.

Here's my shortlist, after watching some videos of potential first round draftees:

McNeill, Mark - Forward -- Prince Albert

Oleksiak, Jamieson - Defensman -- Northeastern

Saad, Brandon - Winger - Sarnia

Jurco, Tomas - Winger - St. John's

Jensen, Nicklas - Winger - Oshawa
The point of drafting the best player available is because it is impossible to know what will happen in 3-4 years. Anything can happen in that span of time. When a team has a depth of talent they can afford to trade some away for players that fill in roles. You also say in the next paragraph that we only have 1 true power forward. But I will argue that we have a total of 0 sure bet offensive first line players. None. But drafting philosophy is a matter of perspective and I will leave it at that.

The second part I bolded is a logical fallacy. Size + wing =/= Max Pacioretty. Just because our particular centers do not play like pacioretty does not mean that all centers do. And just because pacioretty is a winger with size does not mean that all wingers with size become effective players like Patches. Its the equivalent of anybody saying that all small talented players will become Martin St-Louis. Pacioretty is Pacioretty, and he is who he is. He is not like someone else and nobody is like him.

Videos will never do a player justice. Its nice and all to watch highlight videos on occasion to see what a player is capable of at his best, but that is about it. Have you followed these players throughout the year? Have you even seen Grimaldi play before passing judgement based on his size? Have you even seen Saad play? Or any of the other guys you mention?

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05-27-2011, 07:34 PM
  #71
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Let's go for a list than ! :

1.Mark Scheifele
2.Rocco Grimaldi
3.Jamieson Oleksiak (Damn I like the guy ! and I don't care about picking Tinordi last year...This guy will be good)
4.JT Miller
5.Jonathan Huberdeau

I wouldn't mind any of these guys ! Otherwise, trading down seems the best bet !


JEnsen would be a good fit too !

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05-27-2011, 07:43 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by tiersen24 View Post
Let's go for a list than ! :

1.Mark Scheifele
2.Rocco Grimaldi
3.Jamieson Oleksiak (Damn I like the guy ! and I don't care about picking Tinordi last year...This guy will be good)
4.JT Miller
5.Jonathan Huberdeau

I wouldn't mind any of these guys ! Otherwise, trading down seems the best bet !
my top 17 list would be like this at this point

1-RNH A+
2-Huberdeau A
3-Larsson A
4-Landeskog A
5-Couturier A
6-Hamilton A-
7-Murphy A-
8-Strome A-
9-Zibanejad B+
10-Beaulieu B+
11-Miller B
12-Armia B
13-Scheifele B
14-Seimens B
15-Oleksiak B-
16-Mcneill B-
17-Grimaldi B-

Whoever is left at 17 would be my pick I guess...


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05-27-2011, 07:57 PM
  #73
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Would Kale Kessy be worth our third or fourth round pick?

He's a 4th line guy most likely, maybe a third liner if he reaches the peak of his potential. He throws a lot of big hits including big open ice ones, and he's probably one of the top fighters in the league.

Considering we don't have a 2nd round pick is it worth it drafting a guy with almost zero offensive potential?

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05-27-2011, 08:08 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Zeroknowledge View Post
I believe teams always go for a bit of both, yes they have lists but I believe sometimes those lists can have groups of players all ranked the same example this year they might have per example, Miller, Scheifele, Beaulieu and Bartschi all ranked as B, now if they're all available they will select one of them assuming no B+ players are still available.

So they'd have 4 BPA's at this point and this is where a team goes for need, in the Habs case a big center so they'd go for Scheifele or Miller here.

Now assume Beaulieu is ranked B+ and is available, a team with such a system will draft him even if they are stacked on D.

But going BPA is essential, these picks are assets too, going by need shouldn't make you take risky compromises.
Well obviously if Beaulieu and Bartschi are available I'd take them before anyone on my list--i'm just assuming they won't be there. And I like both Scheifele and Miller--i just prefer what the guys on my list can offer to the team down the road.

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05-27-2011, 08:15 PM
  #75
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Mark McNeill looks like a good pick for us , though he could easily be gone by the time we pick. Scheifele is ranked at 41 by THN and they project him as a power forward when he fills out. But in their write up on Scheifele there is nothing that indicated he is a tough, griitty guy which are needed for a player to be a power forward, so Id like to hear if anybody knows if he has these qualities. Otherwise he is just a tallish center. If anybody has seen either of these guys play I would like to hear the comments.

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