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05-27-2011, 07:24 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by eaglesmaster View Post
The point of drafting the best player available is because it is impossible to know what will happen in 3-4 years. Anything can happen in that span of time. When a team has a depth of talent they can afford to trade some away for players that fill in roles. You also say in the next paragraph that we only have 1 true power forward. But I will argue that we have a total of 0 sure bet offensive first line players. None. But drafting philosophy is a matter of perspective and I will leave it at that.

The second part I bolded is a logical fallacy. Size + wing =/= Max Pacioretty. Just because our particular centers do not play like pacioretty does not mean that all centers do. And just because pacioretty is a winger with size does not mean that all wingers with size become effective players like Patches. Its the equivalent of anybody saying that all small talented players will become Martin St-Louis. Pacioretty is Pacioretty, and he is who he is. He is not like someone else and nobody is like him.

Videos will never do a player justice. Its nice and all to watch highlight videos on occasion to see what a player is capable of at his best, but that is about it. Have you followed these players throughout the year? Have you even seen Grimaldi play before passing judgement based on his size? Have you even seen Saad play? Or any of the other guys you mention?
Sorry i didn't realize i had to be a professional scout to post on here, lol. You can take my opinion for what it's worth, that's all it is, an opinion. I just personally think that we need more depth at the wing position, in particular bigger ones. I pay attention to all the players in the Habs organization, and it would appear to me that a very small percentage of the ones who are succeeding are big forwards that can skate. I wouldn't mind if we draft Schiefele of course or even Phillips. I just think we should steer clear of smallish d-men or forwards even if they're BPA.

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05-27-2011, 07:57 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
Would Kale Kessy be worth our third or fourth round pick?

He's a 4th line guy most likely, maybe a third liner if he reaches the peak of his potential. He throws a lot of big hits including big open ice ones, and he's probably one of the top fighters in the league.

Considering we don't have a 2nd round pick is it worth it drafting a guy with almost zero offensive potential?
If you are looking for a Lucic potential player, it's Kale Kessy. He has the offensive tools, it's just can he improve his skating and put it all together? I like him for us in the 3rd round.

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Old
05-27-2011, 08:08 PM
  #78
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If you are looking for a Lucic potential player, it's Kale Kessy. He has the offensive tools, it's just can he improve his skating and put it all together? I like him for us in the 3rd round.
Thanks!

The videos I watched he doesn't look like a dirty player either(is that good or bad?). When one of his teammates got creamed he skated by the guy and challenged him to a fight instead of jumping him. Most of his fights were the result of other people challenging him after he made some big hits.

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05-27-2011, 08:16 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
Sorry i didn't realize i had to be a professional scout to post on here, lol. You can take my opinion for what it's worth, that's all it is, an opinion. I just personally think that we need more depth at the wing position, in particular bigger ones. I pay attention to all the players in the Habs organization, and it would appear to me that a very small percentage of the ones who are succeeding are big forwards that can skate. I wouldn't mind if we draft Schiefele of course or even Phillips. I just think we should steer clear of smallish d-men or forwards even if they're BPA.
You don't, I just do not appreciate the way you dismissed Grimaldi because of size, when he was quite possibly the best forechecker at the u-18 tourney (him and Zibanejad were in a league of their own when it came to attacking defenders) and then name a guy like Brandon Saad because of his size when his physical play is virtually non existent.(and looking at older posts from prospect followers it looks like I am not the only one who thinks saad's physical game does not exist)

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05-27-2011, 08:20 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by eaglesmaster View Post
He has elite level speed. If he didn't, I would not have even brought up his name because of his size.
Size is the only concern with Grimaldi. If it wasn't a concern we would not be talking about him because he would be a top 5 pick.
There's almost too much to like about this kid, I mean sometimes you just kind of roll your eyes.

"If and when you sign your first NHL contract, what would be the first thing you would purchase?

Rocco: I haven’t really thought about it much, but I would first give 10% to the church as my tithe to God, and I would like to buy my parents something nice down the road (house, car, idk)"

He's a little Flanders! With Scott Gomez as Homer, it's going to be a problem.

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05-27-2011, 08:28 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by eaglesmaster View Post
You don't, I just do not appreciate the way you dismissed Grimaldi because of size, when he was quite possibly the best forechecker at the u-18 tourney (him and Zibanejad were in a league of their own when it came to attacking defenders) and then name a guy like Brandon Saad because of his size when his physical play is virtually non existent.(and looking at older posts from prospect followers it looks like I am not the only one who thinks saad's physical game does not exist)
That's fair, Brandon Saad probably is the guy i'd least like to draft on the list i made (after further review) As far as Grimaldi is concerned, I'm sure that i would be blown away by his work ethic/skill/forechecking ability.
But the fact is, he's 5'6 160. i mean, Even if he's as good Gerbe or Gionta, I'd still rather pick someone who's bigger but less talented. But that's just me.

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05-27-2011, 08:52 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Kyle West View Post
There's almost too much to like about this kid, I mean sometimes you just kind of roll your eyes.

"If and when you sign your first NHL contract, what would be the first thing you would purchase?

Rocco: I haven’t really thought about it much, but I would first give 10% to the church as my tithe to God, and I would like to buy my parents something nice down the road (house, car, idk)"

He's a little Flanders! With Scott Gomez as Homer, it's going to be a problem.
I'm out.

I don't need preachy church boys on this team.

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05-27-2011, 08:59 PM
  #83
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I was like yeah let's take Grimaldi we need an impact player. Then, I went on his wikipedia. It freaked me out. Imagine having this guy in the locker room :

"With all of the hockey camps I go to for the U.S., I’ve had the chance to minister to every roommate I’ve had. Several of them have even accepted Christ. I also had a roommate at the Under-18 World Championships who asked Christ into his heart the day before the gold-medal game. That was cool. Kids are always asking me why I don’t swear and why I don’t do certain other things, and it’s good when they start asking questions like that. I try to live it out and, as it says in the Bible, do all things for God. I try to use my hockey ability and play for Him."

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Old
05-27-2011, 09:00 PM
  #84
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I'm out.

I don't need preachy church boys on this team.
Dude, you want people to quit having prejudice against russian (being lazy and all) while you have those kind of comments on people that believes in god? What's your point? Is he less talented because of it? Hell no, he would be 5'11 and probably be 1st overall.

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05-27-2011, 09:03 PM
  #85
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I didn't want to be the first to mention his religion lol. I have nothing against people who are religious, I know Josh and Carey are both religious, but the way this kid talks creeps me out.

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05-27-2011, 09:39 PM
  #86
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Not sure if any of you watch the NFL but a certain Brian Dawkins has a similar attitude, instead of swearing he always yells out "dawg gone it" wish he was still an eagle.....

Psychologically speaking it is sometimes beneficial to be religious, tendency is for religious people to be more calm, otherwise, this bit of info is pretty meaningless. At least imo anyway.

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05-27-2011, 09:52 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by bcv View Post
Dude, you want people to quit having prejudice against russian (being lazy and all) while you have those kind of comments on people that believes in god? What's your point? Is he less talented because of it? Hell no, he would be 5'11 and probably be 1st overall.
You can believe in god all you want. Take in all the positive messages and do what you will. I have no problem with that. I do have an issue with him trying to convert teammates and paying the 'tithe'. I mean, if there's one corruption in the Church, it's that it is a vessel to pull money from people who need it. Look at how much money the guy made off the ******** that was the rapture. Many people quit their jobs because of this prophecy. Being religious and spiritual is fine, if you can take the positive messages from it and use it, not impose it on others. He goes a bit far.

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05-27-2011, 09:58 PM
  #88
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Holy ****, that Grimaldi **** about Christ and God just totally killed the boner is was starting to have.

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05-27-2011, 10:19 PM
  #89
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Holy ****, that Grimaldi **** about Christ and God just totally killed the boner is was starting to have.
Bruins have Campbell and Campbell.


We could have Rocco and God on our team.

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05-27-2011, 10:34 PM
  #90
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lol don't follow him on twitter haha

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05-27-2011, 10:45 PM
  #91
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I don't know why people care so much about religious views, most NFL lockers have team prayers before every game on Sunday. Kurt Warner was preaching his teammates while winning super bowls. If he's a winner I could care less if he preached Christianity or Hinduism.

And if anything he won't be lost in this city night life and fame like many other young players that flopped here because of that aspect.

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05-27-2011, 10:48 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
That's fair, Brandon Saad probably is the guy i'd least like to draft on the list i made (after further review) As far as Grimaldi is concerned, I'm sure that i would be blown away by his work ethic/skill/forechecking ability.
But the fact is, he's 5'6 160. i mean, Even if he's as good Gerbe or Gionta, I'd still rather pick someone who's bigger but less talented. But that's just me.
No it's not... I'm firmly there with you. I enjoy reading boom/bust contingency plans, but either Grimaldi turns out to be a player worth keeping, or he spends the rest of his career in the minors/Europe/Russia. That's just how it goes with the small guys. There's no trading him if "it doesn't work out" or whatever the usual "pick the BPA no matter what" crowd says. If we draft him, and he doesn't manage to crack our squad, I can't imagine anyone lining up to take him off our hands, even as a "reclamation project".

He'd no doubt slay in Europe with the bigger ice, and he might look awesome for the first few weeks/months or so even in the NHL, but all it might take is one run from a Lucic/whoever to make him start looking over his shoulder every shift, and a guy that small can't make a career like that. And in fact, I find it hard to believe that every guy that small can put all that far enough back in his head long enough to allow him to compete at the necessary level for an entire career. The ones who seem able to (St.Louis is one of the very, very few that we've seen go on to a "complete" NHL career) are extremely rare. Some boom potential doesn't outweigh the huge bust potential in my opinion; not with the team's first pick of the draft.

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05-27-2011, 10:58 PM
  #93
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Grimaldi would annoy Lucic more than Lapierre. He'd start trying to convert him.

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05-27-2011, 11:00 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Zeroknowledge View Post
I don't know why people care so much about religious views, most NFL lockers have team prayers before every game on Sunday. Kurt Warner was preaching his teammates while winning super bowls. If he's a winner I could care less if he preached Christianity or Hinduism.

And if anything he won't be lost in this city night life and fame like many other young players that flopped here because of that aspect.
That's a very good point. Or, he could fall prey to temptation and become one of the most depraved young prospect we ever had


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Old
05-27-2011, 11:21 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'm out.

I don't need preachy church boys on this team.
I'm pretty sure you love Gorges, well Josh, before every game, does a 'au nom du père et du fils...' don't tell me he isn't religious...

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05-27-2011, 11:30 PM
  #96
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PK thanked God first when he won the Gold with Canada.

I'm sure Rocco won't upset the room by being a strong hockey player with strong faith.

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05-27-2011, 11:42 PM
  #97
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PK thanked God first when he won the Gold with Canada.

I'm sure Rocco won't upset the room by being a strong hockey player with strong faith.
Hey even the religious guy fights.

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05-28-2011, 12:30 AM
  #98
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I would be happy with that...THN compares him to Bobby Ryan.
Bobbo Ryan is in another league when compared with McNeill,I like McNeill but why so serious.No comparison.
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Originally Posted by eaglesmaster View Post
My "realistic" short list for habs.
1. Rocco Grimaldi
2. Nicklas Jensen
3. JT. Miller
4. Alexander Khoklachev
5. Dmitri Jaskin

My preference would be to trade down in this particular draft. Trading up will be very expensive, and there is value in the second round so if we move our pick I am hoping we move back and recuperate a 2nd.

I would be pretty sad if we selected Saad at 17, and furious if we take Biggs. I like Mark Mcneill, imo, he reminds a lot of Brendan Morrow, hard working, gritty, smart, not very creative offensively, great for centering the 2nd or 3rd line.

Our prospect pool has a lot of depth in terms of hard working players. Imo we need to address our lack of impact players. We do not really have too many dynamic offensive prospects. Gallagher is scoring a ton of pts, but I would not go as far as other who compare him to St-Louis (which is a huge insult to St-Louis in my book). Gallagher lacks the foot speed and is nowhere near as creative with the puck as Marty.
Leblanc to me is a complimentary player. He performs best when playing with more dynamic players. He is smart and will get into proper positions, he will fight for the puck, etc. What he is not, is a dynamic/creative player.
Pacioretty has the makings to be an excellent player, but even there that creativity is lacking.
Lars Eller is pretty creative, and while I have faith in him, he remains a work in progress.
Desharnais is also very creative, but he lacks the speed needed for a small player to excel in the nhl.
We are also talking about 3-5 years down the road too. Some of our small guys will be gone by then. Plekanec will be in his 30's. Who will be our offensive spark plug then?
One could argue that we can address this in a future draft. But why wait? Why not take this type of player now, when the opportunity is there? Talent does not grow on trees. Nobody knows the next time we will have the opportunity to draft a player with the talent level of Grimaldi. I say take the chance on talent and grab the bigger depth players in the later rounds. Tyler Biggs is not the only guy with "potential" to be the next Lucic, Kale Kessy and David Broll are two players with similar qualities that can be had in the later rounds. A player with grimaldi's package(skill, speed, tenacity, hockey sense) will not be found later in the draft. I think I should end it there, before I lose myself further in a rant.

In summary, Grimaldi is my guy
I agree with most of what you say here but, David Broll I don't think so he was one-punched by Justin Sefton reminded me of Floyd "glass Jaw "Patterson.Grimaldi has talent no doubt but, take a long look at the hit Tinordi put on Khokhlachev and he got up falling and scrambling to the bench and played his next shift are you kidding this kid is the real deal.All politics and religion aside we're talking hockey,and The Montreal Canadiens not brainwashing.

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Old
05-28-2011, 01:58 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
No it's not... I'm firmly there with you. I enjoy reading boom/bust contingency plans, but either Grimaldi turns out to be a player worth keeping, or he spends the rest of his career in the minors/Europe/Russia. That's just how it goes with the small guys. There's no trading him if "it doesn't work out" or whatever the usual "pick the BPA no matter what" crowd says. If we draft him, and he doesn't manage to crack our squad, I can't imagine anyone lining up to take him off our hands, even as a "reclamation project".

He'd no doubt slay in Europe with the bigger ice, and he might look awesome for the first few weeks/months or so even in the NHL, but all it might take is one run from a Lucic/whoever to make him start looking over his shoulder every shift, and a guy that small can't make a career like that. And in fact, I find it hard to believe that every guy that small can put all that far enough back in his head long enough to allow him to compete at the necessary level for an entire career. The ones who seem able to (St.Louis is one of the very, very few that we've seen go on to a "complete" NHL career) are extremely rare. Some boom potential doesn't outweigh the huge bust potential in my opinion; not with the team's first pick of the draft.
Thanks for posting. I thought I had entered into a parellel universe where midgets have taken over the NHL, lol. Who do you think the Habs should draft?

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05-28-2011, 02:19 AM
  #100
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Thanks for posting. I thought I had entered into a parellel universe where midgets have taken over the NHL, lol. Who do you think the Habs should draft?
I don't even bother entering that specific of a conversation usually, because there's always a wrinkle around #6 or 7 that makes everyone start re-evaluating if they stick to the "formula", or if there's all of a sudden a guy available at an organizational need that wasn't expected to be there. So, at #17, there's a list of players I'd go after. Who knows who will be there though. They're not all necessarily 6'2" or above, but there's no one below 5'10" on my list of 1st round pick targets, I can assure you of that.

I'd be looking for another player in the mold of MaxPac for sure - with maybe a bit more bias towards taking shots and burying them instead of making "smart plays", if I'm allowed to dream a bit. For all our love of Desharnais and the rest of the crew, everyone seemed to be more impressed with the package that Pacioretty brought late in the season, so why not add another? That's what I say. Not like anyone else around could fill those shoes if he goes down again. And centre certainly doesn't seem like an organizational deficiency, so I wouldn't be biased that way either.

Give me the best available winger with size, hands, and creativity, I guess, whoever that may end up being. Failing that, give me an ultra-talented centre of at least average size whose decision-making seems good enough that I'd entrust an offense to go through him, and who has above average shooting and passing, but not necessarily exceptional at either. I'd start listing names, but again, who knows who will actually be there at #17 on draft day. Heck, who wants to do an over/under with Baertschi at #7 or Strome at #8? Let's just say that I won't be surprised if someone after the 10th pick has a shot at one (or both) of those guys.

Looking at CS rankings though, as a "guide", I'd be happy with just about anyone from McNeill (14th) to JT Miller (23rd), although I'm not as high on Miller and Biggs as some seem to be. Scratch that. Rattie and Jenner are "do not wants" in that range, as far as I'm concerned, and Jurco could be oh so good OR... simply ineffective at the NHL level.

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