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05-29-2011, 12:56 AM
  #1
macavoy
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offer sheets are bad for the league

PK Subban

GMGM is / was an idiot for giving Green a $5m contract as an RFA. I think we have a good team mentality here in Montreal and PK wouldn't ask for $5m in his 2nd contract, nor do I think CP would ask for $5m in his last RFA contract.

But if someone offers PK a $50m contract for the next 10 years, how can he ever turn it down? The reality is, he never should, $50m to his family is everything, its security, whereas getting hurt and concussed and not having a career in 3 years is possible in the new NHL.

seriously, someone can offer PK a big RFA contract and Montreal would have no choice to match it.


thats why offer sheets are bad, because they basically remove the RFA value from developing your own players, every smart GM would offer PK a $9m/yr contract over the next 2 years to steal him. and still own his RFA rights.

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05-29-2011, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
PK Subban

GMGM is / was an idiot for giving Green a $5m contract as an RFA. I think we have a good team mentality here in Montreal and PK wouldn't ask for $5m in his 2nd contract, nor do I think CP would ask for $5m in his last RFA contract.

But if someone offers PK a $50m contract for the next 10 years, how can he ever turn it down? The reality is, he never should, $50m to his family is everything, its security, whereas getting hurt and concussed and not having a career in 3 years is possible in the new NHL.

seriously, someone can offer PK a big RFA contract and Montreal would have no choice to match it.


thats why offer sheets are bad, because they basically remove the RFA value from developing your own players, every smart GM would offer PK a $9m/yr contract over the next 2 years to steal him. and still own his RFA rights.
not many offer sheets being thrown around lately.it also makes the g m look like a clown.

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05-29-2011, 02:09 AM
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Pr3Va1L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
PK Subban

GMGM is / was an idiot for giving Green a $5m contract as an RFA. I think we have a good team mentality here in Montreal and PK wouldn't ask for $5m in his 2nd contract, nor do I think CP would ask for $5m in his last RFA contract.

But if someone offers PK a $50m contract for the next 10 years, how can he ever turn it down? The reality is, he never should, $50m to his family is everything, its security, whereas getting hurt and concussed and not having a career in 3 years is possible in the new NHL.

seriously, someone can offer PK a big RFA contract and Montreal would have no choice to match it.


thats why offer sheets are bad, because they basically remove the RFA value from developing your own players, every smart GM would offer PK a $9m/yr contract over the next 2 years to steal him. and still own his RFA rights.

Four 1st round picks.

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05-29-2011, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Pr3Va1L View Post
Four 1st round picks.
What do you mean?

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05-29-2011, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SolkaTruesilver View Post
What do you mean?
that's what it would cost the signing team.

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05-29-2011, 02:30 AM
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Theosis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolkaTruesilver View Post
What do you mean?
Basically the team that signs a player through an offer sheet, loses picks depending on the price of the player.

You can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offer_sheet

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05-29-2011, 02:43 AM
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Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
that's what it would cost the signing team.
And on top of that, the team that decides to offer PK that much THEN has to fill in the rest of their lineup effectively with their remaining cap space, or those aren't just 4 1st round picks, they could be multiple top 10 or even top 5 picks. Safe to say that even PK could be "replaced" with a single smart top 5 pick, and that's one reason GMs don't just chuck around top dollar offer sheets to any promising young RFA. The main reason it is unlikely to happen, though, is that there is an admitted (by many GMs) mutual respect and understanding among GMs that RFAs that cement themselves in a team's "core" early in their careers are essentially off limits (or suffer retribution at the first available opportunity). Due to this element of "professionalism", the vast majority of offer sheets you'll see tendered serve the exact purpose they're supposed to, which is to give a new opportunity to a young player with too much depth ahead of him on his current team, without forcing him to ride out the remainder of his RFA status first.


Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 05-29-2011 at 02:50 AM.
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05-29-2011, 02:44 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
PK Subban

GMGM is / was an idiot for giving Green a $5m contract as an RFA. I think we have a good team mentality here in Montreal and PK wouldn't ask for $5m in his 2nd contract, nor do I think CP would ask for $5m in his last RFA contract.

But if someone offers PK a $50m contract for the next 10 years, how can he ever turn it down? The reality is, he never should, $50m to his family is everything, its security, whereas getting hurt and concussed and not having a career in 3 years is possible in the new NHL.

seriously, someone can offer PK a big RFA contract and Montreal would have no choice to match it.


thats why offer sheets are bad, because they basically remove the RFA value from developing your own players, every smart GM would offer PK a $9m/yr contract over the next 2 years to steal him. and still own his RFA rights.
I think most of the GMs understood it for a while, if you try to steal, get ready to be eventually stolen too.. its only a stupid way to inflate salaries.. Bobby Clarke tryied to steal a player I dont remember who some years ago, he has been fired the same year.. Lowe did it with Penner, lol we know the rest of the story, thats a move he has been ridiculized for..

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05-29-2011, 04:28 AM
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FlyingKostitsyn
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Depends on the team offer sheeting but 4 first round picks are likely better than Subban.

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05-29-2011, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
PK Subban

GMGM is / was an idiot for giving Green a $5m contract as an RFA. I think we have a good team mentality here in Montreal and PK wouldn't ask for $5m in his 2nd contract, nor do I think CP would ask for $5m in his last RFA contract.

But if someone offers PK a $50m contract for the next 10 years, how can he ever turn it down? The reality is, he never should, $50m to his family is everything, its security, whereas getting hurt and concussed and not having a career in 3 years is possible in the new NHL.

seriously, someone can offer PK a big RFA contract and Montreal would have no choice to match it.


thats why offer sheets are bad, because they basically remove the RFA value from developing your own players, every smart GM would offer PK a $9m/yr contract over the next 2 years to steal him. and still own his RFA rights.


?????? I fel like I missed a bunch of things... Can you translate this please? Who the hell is GMGM...what Green are you talking about, and who is CP?

then the next poster comments on all of the offer sheets being thrown around.....who has signed an offer sheet lately?

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05-29-2011, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
?????? I fel like I missed a bunch of things... Can you translate this please? Who the hell is GMGM...what Green are you talking about, and who is CP?

then the next poster comments on all of the offer sheets being thrown around.....who has signed an offer sheet lately?
GMGM = George McPhee, Capitals GM.
Green = Mike Green
CP = Carey Price

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05-29-2011, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
PK Subban

GMGM is / was an idiot for giving Green a $5m contract as an RFA. I think we have a good team mentality here in Montreal and PK wouldn't ask for $5m in his 2nd contract, nor do I think CP would ask for $5m in his last RFA contract.

But if someone offers PK a $50m contract for the next 10 years, how can he ever turn it down? The reality is, he never should, $50m to his family is everything, its security, whereas getting hurt and concussed and not having a career in 3 years is possible in the new NHL.

seriously, someone can offer PK a big RFA contract and Montreal would have no choice to match it.


thats why offer sheets are bad, because they basically remove the RFA value from developing your own players, every smart GM would offer PK a $9m/yr contract over the next 2 years to steal him. and still own his RFA rights.
I suppose that many fans whose teams have superstars would take the same position as you do. It it's not in the players' best interests and it could lead to strikes and lockouts (it already has). To say that offer sheets are bad is to to say that teams should have exclusive rights to players from the time they're drafted to the time they're eligible to become UFAs. It would be consistent with your line of thought to eliminate arbitration and restricted free agency as well. While you're at it, why not eliminate unrestricted free agency and return to the days when players could never negotiate with another team and had to accept whatever was offered them? That was the situation that prevailed before expansion in 1967. It was the situation that ultimately led to the creation of the WHA, the only outlet through which players could get immediate big increases in their salaries.


Last edited by Teufelsdreck: 05-29-2011 at 08:07 AM.
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05-29-2011, 08:45 AM
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PricePkPatch
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Wait, so the NHL automatically gives us extra draft picks if someone decide to one-up us and sign one of our RFAs?

...

4x 1st draft pick for Subban.. I feel dirty for even being tempted..

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05-29-2011, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolkaTruesilver View Post
Wait, so the NHL automatically gives us extra draft picks if someone decide to one-up us and sign one of our RFAs?

...

4x 1st draft pick for Subban.. I feel dirty for even being tempted..
Essentially, yes. Here is the compensation chart:

$994,433 or below - No Compensation
$994,434 - $1,506,717 - 2010 3rd round pick
$1506,718 - $3,013,433 - 2010 2nd round pick
$3,013,433 - $4,520,150 - 2010 1st round pick, 2010 3rd round pick
$4,520,151 - $6,026,867 - 2010 1st round pick, 2010 2nd round pick, 2010 3rd round pick
$6,026,868 - $7,533,584 - 2010 1st round pick, 2011 1st round pick, 2010 2nd round pick, 2010 3rd round pick
Over $7,533,584 - 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 1st round picks.

Subban still has to sign that offer sheet, though, just like any other contract.

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05-29-2011, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by SolkaTruesilver View Post
Wait, so the NHL automatically gives us extra draft picks if someone decide to one-up us and sign one of our RFAs?
Yes, this rule was only implemented after last season.

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05-29-2011, 09:08 AM
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Or.. You know, Pierre Gauthier could just re-sign these guys during the season and not have to worry about having them offer-sheeted.

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05-29-2011, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolkaTruesilver View Post
Wait, so the NHL automatically gives us extra draft picks if someone decide to one-up us and sign one of our RFAs?

...

4x 1st draft pick for Subban.. I feel dirty for even being tempted..
Not the NHL, but the team offering the offer sheet.

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05-29-2011, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
PK Subban

GMGM is / was an idiot for giving Green a $5m contract as an RFA. I think we have a good team mentality here in Montreal and PK wouldn't ask for $5m in his 2nd contract, nor do I think CP would ask for $5m in his last RFA contract.

But if someone offers PK a $50m contract for the next 10 years, how can he ever turn it down? The reality is, he never should, $50m to his family is everything, its security, whereas getting hurt and concussed and not having a career in 3 years is possible in the new NHL.

seriously, someone can offer PK a big RFA contract and Montreal would have no choice to match it.


thats why offer sheets are bad, because they basically remove the RFA value from developing your own players, every smart GM would offer PK a $9m/yr contract over the next 2 years to steal him. and still own his RFA rights.
No GM in their right mind would offer sheet PK for $9M becausw they would be forced to give us 4 first round draft picks, somethign we would love to take. There is a trade-off depending on how much the team offered to pay the play they offer-sheeted. The more they offer, the more they would have to give up were the playerto sign with them.

That is how order is kept in the NHL, no one really offer sheets all that often unless they feel it is worth to give something up for the certain player. That is also why usually offer sheets are relatively low, because teams don't want to give up too much.

Check the "Business of Hockey" section of the forum to understand how RFA works.

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05-29-2011, 10:00 AM
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le_sean
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
I think most of the GMs understood it for a while, if you try to steal, get ready to be eventually stolen too.. its only a stupid way to inflate salaries.. Bobby Clarke tryied to steal a player I dont remember who some years ago, he has been fired the same year.. Lowe did it with Penner, lol we know the rest of the story, thats a move he has been ridiculized for..
That player Bobby Clarke tried to steal was Ryan Kesler. For what was then a ludicrous $1.9 million. Imagine if he snagged him how different both teams would look.

Vancouver also had a little fight with the Blues one year when they signed Backes to an offersheet ($2.5 million), and in response the Blues gave one to Steve Bernier. I bet the Canucks wish they could make that trade.

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05-29-2011, 10:31 AM
  #20
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Burke threatened to offer sheet Kessel then made a deal with Boston instead. How did that one turn out?

Chasing RFA's is a bad mistake that usually leads in overpayment and damage to your team.

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05-29-2011, 10:36 AM
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Kriss E
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Offersheets are part of the game, and if there's some crazy GM willing to give up multiple top picks in order to sign one of our RFA to a big contract, then go for it.
I would have no problem trading away PK for four first round picks, especially if it's on a somewhat bad team.

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05-29-2011, 11:05 AM
  #22
danyhabsfan
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Cant believe some people didnt know the RFA compensation rule

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05-29-2011, 11:21 AM
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Oleg Petrov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Essentially, yes. Here is the compensation chart:

$994,433 or below - No Compensation
$994,434 - $1,506,717 - 2010 3rd round pick
$1506,718 - $3,013,433 - 2010 2nd round pick
$3,013,433 - $4,520,150 - 2010 1st round pick, 2010 3rd round pick
$4,520,151 - $6,026,867 - 2010 1st round pick, 2010 2nd round pick, 2010 3rd round pick
$6,026,868 - $7,533,584 - 2010 1st round pick, 2011 1st round pick, 2010 2nd round pick, 2010 3rd round pick
Over $7,533,584 - 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 1st round picks.

Subban still has to sign that offer sheet, though, just like any other contract.
This chart is for 2009-10 offer sheets. These amounts have since increased as Average League Salary has increased.

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05-29-2011, 11:26 AM
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PricePkPatch
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Offersheets are part of the game, and if there's some crazy GM willing to give up multiple top picks in order to sign one of our RFA to a big contract, then go for it.
I would have no problem trading away PK for four first round picks, especially if it's on a somewhat bad team.
You, like me, are filthy. You considered trading the PK. I am filthy, I must wash. Wash away the dirt. Be clean, cleaner. I must wash my hands. And then again. And again. The filth won't go, I must wash again... Hands are bleeding, no matter. Must wash again.

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05-29-2011, 12:12 PM
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DJ Breadman
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4 first round picks would be sweet, as long as they were somewhat high picks

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